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Thread: Will the US use CoP at Nationals this year?

  1. #1
    Custom User Title CDMM1991's Avatar
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    Will the US use CoP at Nationals this year?

    I know that last year, while other federations promptly started training their judges so they could use the new system that would be used at international competitions at nationals, the US chose not to, I'm not quite sure why. I always thought this was a big mistake on the part of the USFSA because when they have their two top skaters not doing the Grand Prix, they have no other way to test out their programs under CoP and work out the kinks with this system, and find out places where they could improve their levels and other little things to get those ever-valuable extra points. I haven't read anywhere yet that the US is or is not using the new system at nationals this year and was just wondering if anybody knew, and also wondered if you guys agreed that this affected particularly Michelle, and maybe even Sasha evn though she had had CoP experience at the previous GPs, since there were several rule changes between the two years. Also, I wondered why the US chose not to, when it was set in stone that it was going to be used in Worlds?

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    The USFSA will use CoP for Nats, but (IIRC) the judges will not be anonymous. CoP will also be used at cheesefests, but I don't know if it will be the ISU version (anonymous judges) or not.

    As I understood it, the USFSA meeting on adopting the CoP was held before the ISU adopted it for '05 Worlds, so they didn't adopt it for this past year.

  3. #3
    Down With It
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    OK, so the switch is this year. That's a good thing.

    On that point, any competitions NOT using the Cop this year?

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    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    On that point, any competitions NOT using the Cop this year?
    I hope not, as I am completely addicted to those score sheets. I am *wishing* the new FS season upon us....NOW!! It's going to be a great season!

    DG

  5. #5
    Down With It
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    And who would have thought- the same system everyone seemed to LOVE to hate three years ago...

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    The question is will the USFSA use the CoP for the Cheesefests?

    Joe

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    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
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    Joe, yes ... it's already been decided that COP will be used at the cheesefests too.

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    The US will use the new system for sectionals and Nationals this year. So the skaters who have to qualify through regionals will be judged under the old system there.

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    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    And who would have thought- the same system everyone seemed to LOVE to hate three years ago...
    I can only speak for myself, but overall, I have always favored the change to COP. I do have opinions about areas I think the system can still improve (eliminate secret judging, separate the panel into technical and PCS judges, and a few others) but don't count me in that "everyone" group you mentioned! Correct me if I'm wrong, but COP has only been in play for 2 seasons (the first of which was GP events only), not 3?

    DG

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think that's right, the past two seasons. In 2003-2004 they used a preliminary version of the NJS in the Grand Prix (Sasha still holds the all-time record of 197.60 points in Skate Canada that year), but not at Worlds. 2005 was the first time it was used at Worlds. In 2002-2003 they had the Interim System, which was the old ordinal system but with a random draw and secret judging.

    I think at the lower levels like regionals, the problem is that not every rink has the computer equipment, plus the trained tech specialists and judges, to do it.

    Mathman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    I can only speak for myself, but overall, I have always favored the change to COP. I do have opinions about areas I think the system can still improve (eliminate secret judging, separate the panel into technical and PCS judges, and a few others) but don't count me in that "everyone" group you mentioned! Correct me if I'm wrong, but COP has only been in play for 2 seasons (the first of which was GP events only), not 3?

    DG
    Since DG and I seem to agree completely on this...I shouldn't be counted in 'everyone' either.

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    Custom User Title CDMM1991's Avatar
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    Yeah in Canada we are using the new system for the lowest qualifying event sectionals, and then eastern and western challenges, and then junior nationals/nationals. But my coach has told me that since the whole computer system costs a small fortune they will do sort of a second rate version with palm pilots or something like that. We'll see how it goes!

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    Well it's not like flipping a switch. There's technology issues, money that needs to be spent, and considerable time to train judges properly (operative word being "properly"). Even the Russians used the old 6.0 system at their Nationals last year. But they did have a second panel of judges at Nationals "ghosting" the competition and scoring it under COP to get some experience with it and to see if the results would have been any different. That's the only thing I think the USFSA could have done that they didn't do. But otherwise, I applaud their decision to take time to really evaluate the system and ensure that the required computers kinks were tested and worked out. Better that they take such time, then to ram it through, use it improperly and give skaters inaccurate feedback.

    There's an old adage in business:

    FAST
    CHEAP
    GOOD QUALITY

    You can get something done FAST and CHEAP, but it won't be GOOD QUALITY.
    You can get something done CHEAP & GOOD QUALITY, but it won't be FAST.
    You can get something FAST & GOOD QUALITY, but it won't be CHEAP.
    You can't ever have all three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skate Sandee
    Even the Russians used the old 6.0 system at their Nationals last year. But they did have a second panel of judges at Nationals "ghosting" the competition and scoring it under COP to get some experience with it and to see if the results would have been any different. That's the only thing I think the USFSA could have done that they didn't do.
    I don't think that they were showing their final scores to the skaters, but there were definitely judges (not on the official panel) scoring with COP sheets at Portland Nationals. I think it was more for the judges to test themselves on the system more than anything else.

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