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Thread: Harry Potter Book Six - SPOILER DISCUSSION!

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    Harry Potter Book Six - SPOILER DISCUSSION!

    I don't want to hear any grief if someone opens this thread and hasn't finished the book yet! Still, just in case....














    Random thoughts:

    Because I don't read spoilers and didn't know someone would die, I didn't see the Dumbledore death coming. Still, I have to believe he'll play some part (maybe through a portrait or a Phoenix rising from the ashes?) in Book 7.

    I also don't know if Snape really betrayed Dumbledore. Of course that's how it reads...but I can't help thinking that Dumbledore's "Servus...please" to Snape right before Snape killed him was something along the lines of, "Please, do it. Just like we discussed and planned". I know it's hard to imagine JKR being able to provide a scenario that will redeem Snape, but it's just too pat for me. Snape's reason for not killing Harry makes me more suspicious of Snape's true motives.

    I'm am thrilled at the prospect that Book 7 may take us away from Hogwarts. Harry's decision not to return really does open the world up and I am anxious to see him embrace his destiny fully.

    A lot more humor...and horniness...compared to Book 5.

    Missed George and Fred. Glad that Hagrid didn't play a big role. And ??? over Slughorn. Not sure how I feel about him.

    And the Defense Against the Dark Arts curse holds true. Snape only held it for one year...

    I did miss the team aspect we saw in the Order of Phoenix. While it was nice to see Harry and Dumbledore really spend more time together, I missed Luna, Neville and the others rallying behind the cause.

    And I admit I openly wept during the description of Dumbledore's funeral.

    I finished it in one sitting. I am mixed on this one. It was a jarring shift in tone from Book 5 (which was almost exhaustively tension-filled with a sense of peril) to Book 6 (which is more intellectual and fact-finding). But I understand that Book 6 had to serve as the proverbial "calm before the storm" and, overall, I liked it.

    Edited to add: I'm convinced more than ever that Dumbledore knew he had to die in order for Harry to succeed, and that he worked it out with Snape that he had to be the one to strike the final blow. It makes the argument that Hagrid overheard more sense, and allows for a character to get more closer to Voldermort than Dumbledore ever could. And it provided the impetus Harry needed to shake off Hogwarts and embrace his destiny. Dumbledore's death has a real Yoda-dies-but-is-not-truly-gone kind of moment.
    Last edited by Skate Sandee; 07-18-2005 at 07:20 AM.

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    Beware: Long post ahead...



    First off: Dumbledore. I baweld, not when he died, but when it started to hit the other characters. But I didn't cry as much as I did in book 5 when Sirius died, cause Sirius was, and remains, my all time favourite HP character. But I kinda completely suspected it. Though with Malfoy's weakened state, I almost expected him to be the one to bite the dust.

    Malfoy kinda redeemed himself - with his inability to kill Dumbledore - the threats were there, but Malfoy was lowering his wand and couldn't go through with it. And Malfoy was crying with Myrtle. Hehe I'm now a Malfoy/Murtle shipper.

    Harry completely rocked. I love how JK makes him actually act the age he is - like in book 5 he was bratty and moody, and in this one it's all about girls. But Harry's determination and basically just everything he does, from his schoolwork, to Slug, to Dumbledore - absolutely brilliant (heck, the fact that Harry had his homework always done in time was awesome!)

    I'm one of those who always expected a Harry/Ginny relationship and I liked how it went about with Harry's jealousy and daydreams and all that in this one, and while it was expected, I felt she just kinda jumped into it in this book - just all of a sudden he was madly in love with her. But their first kiss - that was totally out of a movie! I can totally see it - them walking toward eachother and taking each other in their arms with everyone watching and cheering and everything... hehe. But what surprised me a bit was that everyone thinks Ginny's hot (even a Slytherin!). But yay Ginny!

    Ron and Hermione - how dense can they be to not think that Malfoy is working for Voldemort. I mean, duh! And their stupidity regarding each other - I mean, Ron - Hermione ASKED YOU OUT! You don't go off and start pawing at and making out with some chick who NEVER paid you any attention before (why the heck did JK pair up Lavender and Ron?). And you don't do that just because 2 years earlier Hermione POSSIBLY made out with another guy! Yeesh. But I was giggling over Hermione using that other Keeper guy to make Ron jealous.

    Tonks/Lupin - very unexpected. But I'm glad - Lupin needs a little lovin (just make sure Tonks is out of the way every full moon). But I like Tonks and I'm glad to see her happy. But yeesh, if they have kids, they'll be spazzy klutzes of little werewolves, won't they?

    Snape - At first, with the unbreakable vow, I was a bit confused over whether he was good/evil. Then I kinda started to think - Voldy would have him killed if he didn't help them out. Then when Hagrid mentioned overhearing an argument between Dumbledore and Snape over too much work or somthing, I thought him good, because it seemed as Snape was really working as a double agent. But in the end - nothing can redeem snape for killing Dumbledore. Though there is the chance that he really IS good and really IS working for the Order, and though it was against his heart, since he made the vow, he absolutely had to kill Dumbledore, much like Dobby had to hurt himself every time he spoke ill of the Malfoys. So I think there is the possibility of redemption.

    Regarding him being the half blood prince - I thought that would happen - when they talked about the tiny cramped writing, I remembered the mention of Snape's tiny cramped writing on his DADA OWS from the 5th book. But I also suspected that it might be Lily's, despite all the insistence that she is a pure muggle born. But what confused me was that Harry decided to check the book's publishing date to see when the Prince was at school. Umm, Harry? Since when does the date of a book indicate when someone used it? I mean, I read Dracula, but that was from 1897. Does that make me over 100 years old?

    Regarding book 7 - I Harry will go back at some point. I mean, he can hardly become an Auror without his NEWTs, and I think a horcrux will definitely be stored at Hogwarts - I think it's highly likely that Godric Gryffindor's sword really is a horcrux, despite what Dumbledore says. Harry will go on his little journy to 'find himself' or whatever - visiting his house, his parents graves and all that, and Ron and Hermione will join him. But he will go back to school because that is home to him, and it's where he feels most safe. And very likely, one of the DA will get in trouble - Ginny (who Harry will end up with), Neville or Luna (who should totally hook up - Neville needs a little action).

    But the tradition still stands - a DADA teacher lasting no longer than a year. Maybe they'll bring Lupin back!

    And Harry's statement that Dumbledore's not gone unless nobody's faithful or whatever (re-used from the 2nd book) I also think means Fawkes will be his, and that Dumbledore, though dead, will still guide him through everything and will help him defeate Voldy.

    RAB- totally Sirius's brother. The second I saw 'B' for the last intital I knew it was a Black.

    Oh, one last thing - I think there's a possibility that Harry might be a horcrux, even though I never thought JK'd kill off Harry, until Daniel Radcliffe said he thought Harry would die in the 7th book, and JK just went 'he said that, did he? I'm going to have a nice long talk with him...' and what better place to put a horcrux than in your enemy? But I'm still not sure - I think Harry will probably survive and will either become the DADA teacher (though Voldy was told he was too young at 18), he'll become an auror, or will become some big quiddich guy.

    One thing that cracked me up - that at one point the password was 'abstinence'. What with all the making out going on, the password seemed quite fitting.

    All in all, I found it to be the best book of the series.

    ETA: JK has said that she expects book 7 to be out in about 2 years. She has the last chapter written and plans on writing all the rest come the end of the year (she needs some time for her baby first).
    Last edited by screech; 07-17-2005 at 09:33 PM.

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    I also was completely bawling from about the time when Harry kneeled down next to Dumbledore's body until the last sentence. This is by far the saddest, IMO, and its been the first time I've cried this hard over a book in a while. I did like the way Rowling tied it all together from Harry's POV to Ginny when he basically said "Look at what Voldemorts done to everyone I care about, and I don't want you to be next, and now I really know what I have to do." She left enough cliffhangers, but it was still brought together very nicely.
    If I read it again before the seventh, I have to remember the kleenex for the end.

    Laura

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    I think this one was perhaps less complex than some of the previous ones. In all previous books Harry got to use a lot more of the skills he'd acquire that year in "the battle".

    Dumbledore's death was rather predictable. While it seems that Snape is all evil, I do find it too easy. I also agree that Harry will end up returning to Hogwarts. I also think that book 7 might have more of centaurs and merrpeople. I am also hopeful that in the one remaining book we'll finally see the Dursleys as something less cartoonish.

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    Did I have a senior moment and forget exactly where in Volume 5 Hermione and Viktor Krum broke up? Hermione and Ron, ugh. I thought she'd have more imagination.

    Fleur standing by her Bill was a wonderful twist. That one I didn't expect. But would it have been the other way around if Fleur had been attacked by Greyback?

    Harry's breakup scene with Ginny struck me as a bad scene out of General Hospital. IMO the twit doesn't deserve her.

    While the book might have set up the seventh properly, I thought it was low on the scale of character development.

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    I have been so busy writing my thesis that I only got around to picking up my copy of HP this week!!

    I have just finished it this second and I am in complete shock!! To be honest all the personal relationship stuff didn't surprise me at all, but I like the way it was written into this book.

    As fo Snape, well I wasn't too surprised that he was on the dark side. I always thought that the way he treated Harry had much more sinister undertones than simply due to the history, he has never been anything other than malevolent and obstreperous towards him. Although, as has already been mentioned, it may have been too easy and I am fully prepared for Dumbledores death to have been an elaborate plan between him and Snape, perhaps Dumbledore found out that he was a Horcrux. I don't think Harry can be a Horcrux as Dumbledore said that all six horcruxes must be destroyed before Voldemort himself and the final part of his soul could be destroyed so I am not sure that Harry being a Horcrux would work, but that was the first thing that crossed my mind when they were mentioned.

    I grew to like Draco in this book and I do think that at some point Harry and he will end up working together and I hope they do as I think he has always been a character that has been written to reflect the fact that quite often children harbour the beliefs of their parents without actually understanding what they have an issue with.

    I am hoping that Prof McGonagall takes a more pivotal role in the next book - I have enjoyed her character very much in all the books and I am not sure that she has been fully explored.

    I feel that Harry's character has been left poised on the edge of the dark side. The change in him in the last couple of chapters was palpable. In a moment he lost all his innocence and became hard and cold and murderous. I am really interested to see how JK writes this as with Harry's less than brilliant wizarding skills and such single minded murderous intent I wonder how he will cope and who we can expect to step up as a mentor/teacher - the mysterious RAB perhaps?

    Ron and Hermione seemed to take a back seat in this book, I didn't really get much from either of them beyond teenage angst and if I am honest I wasn't that impressed with them. I found myself intensely disliking Hermione on several occasions through the book.


    Well roll on the next book.......do we have a release date yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by diver chick
    I feel that Harry's character has been left poised on the edge of the dark side. The change in him in the last couple of chapters was palpable. In a moment he lost all his innocence and became hard and cold and murderous. I am really interested to see how JK writes this as with Harry's less than brilliant wizarding skills and such single minded murderous intent I wonder how he will cope and who we can expect to step up as a mentor/teacher - the mysterious RAB perhaps?
    Thank you. You articulated exactly what's been bothering me. Harry is treated with such reverence - especially by Dumbledore - for being an uncommonly gifted young man. But it baffles me why he's such a mediocre wizard when it comes to actually learning skills. Granted he has moments (the Patronus) that he exceeds expectations. But generally he just lashes out with whatever spell occurs to him. Very little finesse. I understand he's young. But I walked away from Book 6 thinking he is in no way ready to tackle Voldermort.

    Diver, it'll be at least another 2 years before the final book. JK has written the ending, but isn't planning to sit down and start writing the rest of it until the end of this year. At least we have the Goblet of Fire movie to look forward to this fall!

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    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Finished the book last night. Pretty much agree with everyone's theories. Not convinced Dumbledore is dead, though. I think he'll be back, in some form, for the last book. I think Snape, because of his Occumency (sp) abilities, tweaked his hex on the good professor. We didn't hear of his body being "displayed" during his funeral, just Hagrid carrying "wrapped in purple velvet spangled with golden stars, was what Harry knew to be Dumbledore's body." There were a couple more references such as this.............anyone else have the same thoughts?........42

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    I had the exact same thought 42, especially given what Dumbledore said to Malfoy before the other Death Eaters arrived.
    I'm not convinced Snape is evil, although I was fully ready to in Chapter 1 He had too many chances to do serious harm to Harry and carry him back to Voldemort to be finished off. There has to be IMO some clear, Unbreakable Vow type reason that Dumbledore trusted Snape so completely.

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    Even aside from all the reasons I already think that Snape isn't evil (the argument with Dumbledore that Hagrid overheard, and my theory that Dumbledore forced him to make the vow and all that stuff), it must be noted that when Harry was chasing him, SNAPE DID NOT ATTEMPT TO HARM, STUN, PETRIFY, DISARM OR DO ANYTHING ELSE TO HARRY!. All he did was prevent Harry's curses from taking place. The only time Snape really showed a reaction was when Harry called him a coward, and I think that hit snape, because Snape would have been VERY uncowardly to have gone through with the vow - knowing all the repurcussions, and that his life will basically be a living hell.

    So IMO, Snape is the bomb right now for doing what he did.

    And I kinda hate to say it, but Dumbledore never really did it for me - i mean, yeah, i liked the guy, I cried when he died and all that, but I cried much more and much harder over Sirius.

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    Finished the book today, I, too, felt a great deal of sadness over Dumbledore's death. I kind of thought that he had to die so that Harry can face Voldie on his own in Book 7. He has to face him without anyone else's benevolent protection, and Dumbie is the last one to offer it. I knew someone important died in this book and frankly my bet was on Dumbie.

    I'm still confused about Snape. Remember when he protected Harry in that Quidditch game by mumbling some protective spell? What was up with that?

    I do not believe Harry will die in book 7. Too many fans will be miserable. Anyhow, it's that one cannot live while the other survives, right? In other words, only Harry or Voldy can live. Also of major importance is that Dumbie kept stressing that it is important that Harry understand that he wasn't born to be The Chosen One by some gift of birth; rather, Voldy just THOUGHT this to be the case and therefore, it became the truth. I think this will pose as a major developmental issue in the next book.

    I see Harry becoming the permanent teacher of the Dark Arts and head of Gryffindor. He will defeat Voldy but something will intimate that all dark forces have not been eliminated yet because that is man's nature.

    I could not put the book down but found it lacking a whole lot of the kind of action we saw in book 5 except for the end when Dumbie and Harry have their little adventure. It was very similar to the first book actually in that respect. Not really a lot of twists and surprises. And apart from their hormonal rages, Ron & Hermie didn't really do much of anything in this book--that was disappointing.

    This was my daughter's favorite book of the series (she's 11). She said she found it clearer to understand than the last one, whereas I preferred the complications the last one had to offer. She seemed to return to a simpler writing style and plot in this book.
    Last edited by RealtorGal; 07-23-2005 at 08:30 PM.

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    I finished reading today.

    I was crying from the point where they found Dumbledore's crumpled body and cried some more when Harry told Ginny why he had to let go of her to save her and how she said that she always knew it would happen. I remember predicting in the last book that Ginny and Harry would hook up. I was hoping that Ron would be a little more big brothery - I think it's a lot harder on brothers watching younger sisters than any other combo. Also predicted Ron & Hermione, but are they in a holding pattern? - they definitely seem closer, but no indication that they've 'snogged', yet.

    I thought the book got to a slow start, but it always picks up speed when they get back to Hogwart's. I'm glad the Dursley's had practically no role.

    It was great discovering the events leading to the creation of Voldemort. I eagerly anticipated each of those chapters and had to prevent myself from looking ahead.

    I don't know what to think of Snapes. I don't believe that he's truly 'bad'. He definitely seemed to have a lot of resentment toward Harry due to his father, but he never seemed antagonistic towards Dumbledore.

    I think he and Dumbledore had discussed what Dumbledore was doing with Harry and what to do in certain scenarios. I'm guessing that Dumbledore told Snapes to kill him if need be . Dumbeldore was obviously poisoned from drinking the cursed water and Harry said that Dumbledore was 'pleading' when he spoke 'Severus'. Snape's facial expression of revulsion and hatred may have been about the situation, which he knew he unwittingly triggered all those years ago and not wanting to kill Dumbledore. Also, if Snapes had acted against the Death Eaters, Dumbledore, Malfoy, Harry and himself would likely be seriously injured or dead.

    As for Snapes running off, I feel it was from self-loathing and the need to survive. I doubt we've seen the last of Snapes. Loved that Snapes was the half-blood prince.

    I am now looking forward to the movie version of this book. The battle scene will likely have some special effects. The teen romances will be fun to watch (Who can utter 'I wuv Won-won' with a straight face.) Alan Rickman will be able to really become Snapes.

    I think this was the calm before the climax. I think that the happiness that Harry has experienced with Ginny is what may save him in book 7. Gotta remember that Harry hasn't had anyone 'love' him that he can remember. Also, Dumbledore said that the main difference between Voldemort and Harry was their experiences of love.

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    I'm convinced that Dumbledore isn't dead. I understand that he needs to be out of the way for Harry to have his final confrontation with Voldemort, but there are things that point to his death being faked:

    Dumbledore trusted Snape completely. It's too easy of an explanation to just say that Dumbledore accepted Snape just because he repented his old ways.

    Unlike all of the others in the series who have died from 'Avada Kedavra', Dumbledore's eyes were described as being closed. All of the others' eyes were described as remaining wide open.

    In GoF the fake Mad-Eye tells the students that you can say the killing curse but it doesn't mean that it will work. You really have to mean it when you use one of the Unforgivable Curses, as Bellatrix Lestrange says in OotP. Snape would obviously be aware of how this works.

    The most telling evidence is in the first book when Snape mentions several potions and remedies, and in this book, HBP, Slughorn mentins more potions. We have found out about all of these potions and their values except for the Draught of the Living Dead. Snape was a master potions teacher and could obviously have concocted it for Dumbledore as part of their grand plan. It would explain why Dumbledore is sleeping in his new portrait, and why his eyes were closed when he was supposedly killed.

    Overall I loved this book. I thought that it did what it had to do exceptionally well: bridge the gap from the rest of the series into the concluding novel. I'm glad that many things are left to finalize in the last book, and I'm hoping that it's going to be longer than OotP was.

    The only complaint I had was that there was not enough Neville or Luna. I expected Neville's role to be expanded more after OotP.

    One final thought: Won-Won and Er-My-Nee better get together in the next book. We've been waiting and waiting for it to happen, so it's now or never.

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    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Great post, mike...........totally agree. The sleeping picture was what convinced me of Dumbledore's deception..........42

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    Snape was a master potions teacher and could obviously have concocted it for Dumbledore as part of their grand plan. It would explain why Dumbledore is sleeping in his new portrait, and why his eyes were closed when he was supposedly killed.
    Seeing Dumbledore sleeping in his portrait was my first
    sign that something "wasn't right" about his death. Then when
    somebody here mentioned that during the funeral nobody
    actually "seen" Dumbledore's body, it reinforced my idea
    that maybe he isn't really dead. And Snape isn't a fool when it comes
    to potion making. Back in book 3, he was the one who made the complicated
    "Wolfsbane" potion for Professor Lupin.

    In GoF the fake Mad-Eye tells the students that you can say the killing curse but it doesn't mean that it will work. You really have to mean it when you use one of the Unforgivable Curses, as Bellatrix Lestrange says in OotP. Snape would obviously be aware of how this works.
    I forgot about that. I was pretty angry (and sad) when he killed Dumbledore,
    but now I can't help but think that it was all a sham and Snape was just going
    "through the motions." Making everyone think he really did kill Dumbledore
    and in the process, become Voldemort's #1 DE to gather more "inside info"
    for the OotP.

    Going back to book 4 for a moment. When the fake Moody performed
    the Unforgivable curses on the spiders, I don't remember any of them
    "floating in the air" like Dumbledore did when Snape AK'd him.
    So it probably wasn't a true AK curse Snape hit him with. A good
    part of the book he was trying to teach Harry and the DADA class
    "non-verbal" spells. Maybe Snape only said "Avada Kedavra", but really
    forcused on the Wingardium Leviosa spell.

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