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Thread: Why do you dislike Navka/Kostomarov?

  1. #16
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    I don't dislike them, but I don't think they are one of the all-time greats, either. While Roman is good, she is a better skater, and I like to see more balance. I think their results have often been correct, but I believethe 2004 World title should have gone to D&S. I think both D&S teams are more skilled, so it frustrates me to see them behind N&K. N&K are medal worthy teams, but I don't think the medal should always be gold.

    I'm also frustrated with the quality of ice dance programs over the last two years. I think the new system is taking a lot of the creativity and spark out of ice dancing. Maybe N&K are just feeling the brunt of people's views about ice dancing in general.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Oh, I don't at all agree with your premise at that people don't like Navka and Kostamarov. My impression in reading figure skating discussion boards is that this team is so obviously superior to everyone else that there is really not much to talk about.

    I personally like Delobel and Schoenfelder (and of course, my all-time faves, Watanabe and Kido), but in terms of the Olympics it will be N&K and then everyone else will be skating for second place.

    Some people, especially casual fans who do not really follow ice dance very much, may find their style a little too formal, especially compared to the youthful elan of Belbin and Agosto. But if you want to talk about politics and judging deals, I think the rapid rise of B&A has something to do with the desire on the part of the ISU to let the U.S.A. into the game.

    JMO.

    Mathman
    I am one of those casual dance fans that you mentioned. Now that my fan status has been qualified, I am LOL that I read your middle paragraph as saying "Want-ta-be and Kiddo!" I know that's vastly incorrect, but that's my silliness coming out in preparation for the season opener.

    While I'm at it, and the Cheesefests are being heavily discussed (who's participating in what - Japan v. Campbell's, GPS, etc.) I sure wish that Pairs and Dance were in the non-GP Cheesefest mix! I really do love watching all diciplines, even though my "brain" is better with singles.

    DG

  3. #18
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    I don´t dislike Navka & Kostomarov, but I enjoy watching the skating and how they look on the ice in some other ice dance pairs (e.g. Denkova & Staviski, Belbin & Agosto, Delobel & Schoenfelder and Chait & Sakhnovski) much, much more. These skaters feel more natural somehow.
    Last edited by Jaana; 07-27-2005 at 01:30 AM.

  4. #19
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    I dislike Roman's sloppiness (not always, not every second, but more than I like for gold medallists).

    I dislike their facial expressions. Often I think Roman rather wants to be somewhere else (with this wife??).

    I sometimes dislike their "interpretation" of music. When I first watched Turandot I was ANGRY. They chose slow parts of the music but rushed thru them as if they wanted to finish early to take a break....

    I dislike a lot of lifts. But that is nothing I would only say for N&K. Almost every dance couple from junior to senior was guilty in that department.

    And then I often dislike judging. Mainly the components. But this is nothing exclusive to ice dance. Judges seem to be overwhelmed by what they have to judge, so the components is the last and least they do. And they tend to give about the same mark in every component whereas there is a big difference between skating skills (which could be rather high for N&K even though not as high as for Navka alone) and interpretation and choreography (which should have been a lot higher for DelSchoes than N&K at least in the end of the season).

  5. #20
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    N/K are very talented dancers and I have no dislike for them. I just don't think they are as far ahead of some other couples as the judges would have you believe. Also in some cases this season I thought PCS was used to prop them up when they didn't have the technical difficulty of other couples and their performance didn't merit it. JMO
    Last edited by honey827; 07-27-2005 at 07:05 AM.

  6. #21
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    TOSCA!

    Navka & Kostamarov skated to "E lucevan le stelle" from Tosca.

    They never skated to "Nessun Dorma" or any other selections from Turandot, MUCH more overused than Tosca.

    And personally I prefer the Tosca music quite a bit, it would make me happy if more skaters don't use that instead of Turandot.
    But I guess if you just don't like that kind of music to begin with, it all sounds the same.

  7. #22
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    Navka & Kostomarov are a good team. The trouble is, they're winning far too easily over all the other good dance teams. This naturally annoys fans of the other teams. That's why there are so many negative comments about Nav/Kos (in my opinion anyway). It's not really that people dislike Nav/Kos. Rather, they dislike how the judges favor and overmark them.

    I agree that Nav/Kos have wonderful line and elegance. But, they do tend to make mistakes quite often (especially Roman). Plus, I don't think they have nearly the level of connection and emotional quality in their partnering that some of the other teams have, especially Tanith & Ben and Del & Schoen. You just don't get the sense that they're really melding together as a team. Here is what I mean by this: I can easily imagine either Navka or Kosto skating with other partners. Whereas, it is difficult to imagine Tanith or Ben skating with anyone else, and the same for both the D/S teams.

    I also agree with other posters that while Nav/Kos are great, they don't bring a whole lot of originality or excitement to ice dance. As with Totmianina/Marinin in pairs, you get the feeling that they are simply carrying on the Russian tradition of skating excellence, but not really bringing anything new or innovative to it. Hence, the lack of excitement about their skating.

    Also interesting are the comments about Zhulin. I doubt this is seriously affecting Nav/Kos's popularity with fans. Nonetheless, I must admit that I do always think of the whole Zhulin history whenever I see Nav/Kos skate. And, since it's a rather unsavory history, I cannot say it makes me feel more positively about Nav/Kos.

  8. #23
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    Why do you dislike Navka/Kostomarov?

    they are a very talented pair,certainly the most elegant. they may not have a great connection with each other in some people's eyes,but they have it with the people that matters most the judges
    Last edited by curious; 07-27-2005 at 10:10 AM. Reason: change of a word

  9. #24
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    I agree with the poster who said that N/K are good but not one of the greats---and they are scored as if they WERE one of the greats. Their PCS scores are so high they will always be kept firmly in first place.

    Ever notice that Susie Wynne keeps talking about their "leg line"? If that's the main reason they are #1, it's totally absurd.

    And last season, "Tosca" certainly was not 'dance' music. If any other couple had used that music, they would have been marked down for it.

  10. #25
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    I've noticed Susy Wynne constantly talking about twizzles both ways and whether the twizzles are close enough. The long Ninotchka legs are new to me this season but no reason given for making them a higher dance score. (I would think they should ban skaters with short legs.)

    I think Suzie plays it cool and does not put anyone down for fear that the judges may not do the same. No power of conviction from her but that may be how she's been directed at ABC.

    Joe

  11. #26
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    Thanks everyone for the feedback, and quite a special "thank you" to Brad Your post made my day brighter

    I really like Navkos, I can't say they are my all-time favourites (Gritchuk/Platov are) but I find them classy, elegant and refined.

    My comments are not to cause a huge argument and they are definitely NOT addressed at any of you.
    I do agree that scoring and judging in ice dances is/seems to be quite obscure at times. But it is somehow strange to "blame" winners for their victories, isn't it?
    BTW, in ballroom dances there are even no scores, only placements, and sometimes even "closed placement" so final placements are announced only at the very end of a competition, after all dances. And there are no great scandals.
    N/K programs are easier than their rivals': actually (generally) not. And if they make it look easy - it's just a great compliment to them. Not everything easy-looking is really easy. As to their lifts that many people (rightfully) consider ugly - every team does them. Such are the requirements. These elements get high scores.
    No experiments? They are athletes, they want to win! Are you sure judges will welcome the experiments? ... *trying to remember what was the latest experiment in ice dance* ... maybe Krylova/Ovsyannikov's 1999 FD to African drums? Most fans were confused. N/K are not innovative? They chose "Tosca" as their music and many called this music not danceable.
    Dislike Navka because she's a beautiful Diva? Makes no sense. Since when it's better to be plain

    ETA: Ninotchka Who's this?

    Distance between partners in twizzles is one of the main (along with synchronism and speed) criteria for evaluating them.
    Last edited by Shanti; 07-27-2005 at 12:48 PM.

  12. #27
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    I think Denkova/Stavisky and somewhat Delobel/Schoenfelder have been more "experimental" among the current teams.

    I don't really think of any of these teams as all-time greats, I'm not even sure I'd put Anissina/Peizerat in that category, and they're the only candidate in my mind so far in the 21st century. But someone has to win.

    I guess we'll have a different perspective eventually with the perspective of history after more years have passed.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanti
    ... ETA: Ninotchka Who's this? ...

    .
    The only "Ninotchka" that I know of is a character in a movie. The original, "Ninotchka" starred Greta Garbo in the title role. It was re-made into a musical ("Silk Stockings") with Cyd Charisse (talk about long legs on a dancer, though)

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piel
    ITA that more badboys (and gals) would certainly make things more interesting. Zhulin reminds me of a little toad and IMO fate has been very kind to him as far as beautiful women go (Usova and Navka that is...I don't get Gritchuk either,LOL).
    Zhulin a toad????!!! He was and is an absolute fox.

    I'm not a N&K fan, but I haven't liked ice dance since 1998. I thought Lobacheva and Averbukh were horrible ice dancers compared to the great USSR teams of the past and N&K just reflect that downward spiral. Though I do consider Navka to be one of the most elegant ladies in ice dancing (after Gruschina) and she looks like a ballroom dancer out there.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    TOSCA!

    Navka & Kostamarov skated to "E lucevan le stelle" from Tosca.
    You are right. With my mistake you can see how much I blocked that routine out of my head... lol

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