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Thread: The Triple Axel and the Ladies

  1. #16
    Custom User Title CDMM1991's Avatar
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    I first, want to reiterate the question: When is Tokyo? and two, say that I don't think that by my estimate of when it would be the 3a will be as common as the current 2a I think it will be more towards how common the 3a is in men's competition today: being a necessity.

    As for Carolina doing a triple axel, I agree with the poster that said we will see a quad first because TV commentators have said that she sees the double axel as her worst jump and doesn't like it at all.

  2. #17
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    The question is will it become a standard someday?

  3. #18
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Isn't the Worlds normally in March of the year?

    My point of the 3A becoming a standard jump is that it will begin in Juniors. I think by Tokyo Worlds, Mao and Kimmie will by then be knocking them off and so will their young competitors attempting them. In 2008 the new era will be among us .

    Why do I get the feeling that the fans are not all together with a podium place for Carolina? My problem with her is that she fades after 2.7 minutes. That's corrective criticism because she can learn how to keep the pace and stamina right till the end.

    Joe

  4. #19
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    Tokyo is 2007.

    2008 hasn't been chosen yet, but I've read two theories: 1. It's Europe's turn. (London and Goteborg [Sweden] are among those interested.). 2. The 2010 Olympics are in NA, and that would make it NA's turn in 2009 (like 2001 Vancouver/2002 Olympics in SLC), so maybe Worlds 2008 should be in NA instead and in Europe in 2009.

  5. #20
    Down With It
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    Why do I get the feeling that the fans are not all together with a podium place for Carolina? My problem with her is that she fades after 2.7 minutes. That's corrective criticism because she can learn how to keep the pace and stamina right till the end.
    You're not alone actually- I also wonder why there are so many Kostner bandwagon jumpers. But, on the other hand, a podium finish is definitely not out of the question. She was able to do it at Worlds.

  6. #21
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Tara's rep was built on the 3L-3L - no toe assist in between.

    I don't think the 3A will be required for several years for the ladies.

    Come on - everyone was talking about how a 3-3 is a must have to win since 1997. In the 6.0 system, the top ladies had enough to not need it to win every competition. Sure Sarah had 3-3's at Oly's, but it was also the flaws of the top3 and Sarah's joy that gave her an edge. She's never won the gold at any other competition even when she's had a 3-3 and others didn't. COP has certainly made the 3-3 a bonus, but before COP I wouldn't say that a 3-3 was required to win, as much as everyone said it would be.

    The problem with the 3A is that it's being done by junior girls with immature bodies. Throw in hips & breasts & additional height might result in losing the jump at the Senior levels.

  7. #22
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    Meissner needs to fully rotate her 3axel in competition or hopefully she will NOT get credit for a triple. It wasn't even near being rotated 3.25 times at US Nationals but we all know that she got credit. Her lutz seemed cheated to me a few times last season, as well, so it will be interesting to see her do a 3lutz/3toe and 3flip/3toe. JMO, but I think she's a lot more overhyped than someone like Kostner. Sure, she does run out of energy at the end of her free skates, but the difference between how apparent it was in 2003 to now is like night and day in my eyes. Her SP record at Worlds has been 4th, 5th, 4th, so she's excellent when it comes to that portion.

    Joannie Rochette was landing a few 3Axels from time to time in practice when she was with Manon Perron. Remember, she even landed a few 4toes in the Worlds practices in 2004. Now that she's back with Perron, maybe will we see an attempt from her.

  8. #23
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by cianni
    Kimmie is landing her 3 axel clean 50% of the time. I was at UofD today. - Her FS will have 3axel 3lutz/3toe 3flip/3toe.
    While that sounds impressive, I have to see to believe. If her performance last season is any indication, her jumps aren't that pretty. At the Nationals, the so-called 3axel was landed awkwardly, so were a few of her other jumps. She was hyped a lot at home but has been marked rather lowly at international competitions. That's not a good sign.

  9. #24
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler
    Meissner needs to fully rotate her 3axel in competition or hopefully she will NOT get credit for a triple. It wasn't even near being rotated 3.25 times at US Nationals but we all know that she got credit. Her lutz seemed cheated to me a few times last season, as well, so it will be interesting to see her do a 3lutz/3toe and 3flip/3toe. JMO, but I think she's a lot more overhyped than someone like Kostner. Sure, she does run out of energy at the end of her free skates, but the difference between how apparent it was in 2003 to now is like night and day in my eyes. Her SP record at Worlds has been 4th, 5th, 4th, so she's excellent when it comes to that portion.

    Joannie Rochette was landing a few 3Axels from time to time in practice when she was with Manon Perron. Remember, she even landed a few 4toes in the Worlds practices in 2004. Now that she's back with Perron, maybe will we see an attempt from her.
    I think we are going on the 'Get Kimmie' bandwagon. The branding has begun. Sorry Tony, but Kimmie did the 3A right in front of me in Portland. The take off was cautious, the rotations were perfect, the landing was on one foot and completed. Not the prettiest but done. Over and out.

    God forbid we brand Joannie' quads. Hopefully we see them outside practice.

    Joe

  10. #25
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonesheep
    While that sounds impressive, I have to see to believe. If her performance last season is any indication, her jumps aren't that pretty. At the Nationals, the so-called 3axel was landed awkwardly, so were a few of her other jumps. She was hyped a lot at home but has been marked rather lowly at international competitions. That's not a good sign.
    You will see all of Kimmie's talents soon. So be prepared. Last season was last season. I don't know why fans refuse to allow skaters to improve. I believe they just don't want someone around who could outshine their favorite. Am I correct?

    Joe

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I think we are going on the 'Get Kimmie' bandwagon. The branding has begun. Sorry Tony, but Kimmie did the 3A right in front of me in Portland. The take off was cautious, the rotations were perfect, the landing was on one foot and completed. Not the prettiest but done. Over and out.
    The rotation was NOT perfect. You might have seen it in person, but you can just as easily go back for evidence and slo-mo your Nationals tape. It was more than a quarter turn cheated, and it would have been a double. No question there. I'm not trying to argue but just suggesting if you need proof then the videotape isn't going to lie.

  12. #27
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I think the jump is becoming more and more prominent and I expect by Vancouver we will see at least three attempts and maybe all of them completed. By the time we are discussing Tokyo, I believe the jump will be standard a la the 2A.

    I'm hoping all you Jr Level skating fans are keeping your eye on the triple axels coming forth in 2005 grand prix series, and not just the bielman spins. Remember, good entry; good posture and full turns in the air; and good landing with good flow out.

    The Triple Axels

    1. Who has it now?

    2. Who's working on it now?

    3. Who will just never get it?

    Joe

    "Frankly Scarlett...." I don't care if the ladies ever land a triple axle. It is not necessary, in my opinion. Midori Ito was a phenomenal jumper - Kurt used to quip "Midori could compete with the men." Since Midori no one has really stepped up to the plate so to speak. The men struggle with the quad. Do we really want to see the frustration the ladies will go through trying to nail a triple axle? Sacrificing grace and attention to other detail for another turn in the air - not worth it for me.

    Your third question - Who will never get it? says it all. Probably the majority of the ladies out there. I will be shot down for this I am sure, but I would rather watch a skater like Sasha Cohen putting all the beautiful finishing touches and graceful elements she does into her program and bypassing the triple axle.

    Just call me an old school figure skater.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I think we are going on the 'Get Kimmie' bandwagon. The branding has begun. Sorry Tony, but Kimmie did the 3A right in front of me in Portland. The take off was cautious, the rotations were perfect, the landing was on one foot and completed. Not the prettiest but done. Over and out.

    God forbid we brand Joannie' quads. Hopefully we see them outside practice.

    Joe
    I am just stating an observation. Kimmie landed a clean triple axel during the warm up but during the performance her triple axel was very underrotated. She will land one (and more) in the future, but this one was not a completed triple axel (during the competition).

  14. #29
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    Wow, that's quite an arsenal. What if she can pull this off in competition?

    I, too, had no idea Kwan could even do a 3A. Can she still do it now?
    I doubt it - i wouldn't have thought she'd even other attempting a jump in practice she has no plan in ever trying to compete...but maybe she does for fun?

    Skaters being able to "do" jumps is not a huge big deal - most of the top men have landed four or five different quads in training. When joubert first showed up at worlds he'd been landing quad tow,sal, flip and lutz in training leadding up to worlds but landing one out of every handful of attempts doesn't mean its program worthy.

    The british ladies champ who hasn't even broken into the top ten at worlds lands triple axels fialry regularly in practice. She's never had one scheduled in a competitive program though and struggles with her jumps in compeition.

    Ant

  15. #30
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater
    "Frankly Scarlett...."

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