Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

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Shallah.K

Guest

• Jan 9, 2003

• #1

Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

www.skatecanada.ca/englis...urs_2.html

The New Judging System

* The move to a new judging system is coming and the ISU has announced that it will be implemented at the Senior Grand Prix level in the 2003-2004 season.

:x

Where is a vomiting emoticon when I need it!

 

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FetalAttraction

Guest

• Jan 9, 2003

• #2

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Oh great, now skating will move in the same direction as gymnastics, since skating will use the same element-point system. The most comparable event in gymnastics to skating is the floor exercise, since it's the only one that's set to music. Ever see the floor exercises now? They look more like military drills than anything resembling lyrical dancing. I don't know for sure the same will happen to skating, but it probaly will.

Let me go into more details in my prediction: Since individual elements will have difficulty points, jumps having the most, skaters will be encouraged to pile on things element by element rather than for the purposes of fitting the music. I don't know about you, but artistry is what I love about skating. Artistry is a more or less intangible thing that you can never have a mathematical scoring system for. I'm sure the new system will have some room for that, but why go for musicality and not be sure there's a score reward, when a skater can just go for one big jump after another and be sure of the bonus?

As skating becomes more technical and martial, interest in it will dwindle just like it did for gymnastics. Michelle Kwan's imminent retirement (it's a matter of time) will only exarcerbate the growing apathy. I predict the end of skating as one of the most watched sports in America around 2004-2005.

 

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FetalAttraction

Guest

• Jan 9, 2003

• #3

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Here comes nausea!

<img src='http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/edoom/throwup.gif'>

This is what you type to get that delightful emoticon:

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/edoom/throwup.gif

 

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LADSKATER

Guest

• Jan 9, 2003

• #4

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

No matter what, I will always watch skating and even keep skating into my old age. "I Wish I Had A River I Could Skate Away On..." (Joni Mitchell).

Ladskater

 

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Joesitz

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #5

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Fetal - Your description of the floor work in Gymnastics is priceless. I don't know how those kids could get into 'Cirque du Soleil'?

Joe

 

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SteveKmetko374

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #6

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

The new gymanstics scoring system failed so badly they are now trying to use a newer scoring system where "artistic moves" are required elements and if they are not done to the judge's satisfaction there is a deduction -- but only on bar and beams for some stupid reason. This is also why the Romanians are suddenly winning world championships over the Russians - the Russian gymnasts are far more elegant and take greater risks (doing extremely difficult moves that are also unique and artistic) but they are not rewarded and the Romanians stick to the regime of being pure technical and consistent. That's fine, but boring.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif" />

Since the perfect 10 has gone back to being pretty much an impossible feat, gymnastics has gone downhill. I predict the same will be true for Figure Skating. Woe is I!

In the throw up picture, I'm the blue guy, the other one is Cinquanta.

<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/sick.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/sick.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/sick.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/sick.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/mad.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/mad.gif" />

<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif" />

 

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NCMKNEW02

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #7

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

I am confused about this. Is the non-6.0 scoring system for ISU events only? That is, will the US Nationals use the traditional 6.0 scoring system?

 

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Shallah.K

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #8

The non-6.0 system is for senior level international

as far as I know. As of this coming US Nationals they are sticking with accountable judging, none of the anonymous, ordinal-less manure!

Fetal thanks for the emoticon.

 

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tharrtell

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #9

Re: The non-6.0 system is for senior level international

Oh, my. If skating goes the way of the Romanian gymnastics, fans will flee! They all move like automatons through their routines, create routines based on the code of points, show no emotion, and win because they are consistent. There is no flare at all, and it's boring!

Please, say it ain't so! Grrr...

 

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NCMKNEW02

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #10

Re: The non-6.0 system is for senior level international

Sorry. I did not make it clear in my question. Since the new non-6.0 soring sysytem will go into effect next season. I am curious to know whether the 2004 US Nationals will use the traditional 6.0 system.

If a US skater builds a program around the non-6.0 system for ISU events, but comes Nationals, the program will be judged using a different system (6.0). I wonder how will this affect the skater and the program.

 

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rgirl181

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #11

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Well, what do you expect from Speedy? If he could turn figure skating into speed skating, he would.

Perfect description of gymnastics floor routines now being like military drills, Fetal. Remember Lilia Podkokayeva, the 1995 World and 1996 Olympic all-around gymanstics champ? Her floor routines were among the last of great artistic gymnastics. ITA with everyone about how the point system will prompt the skaters to load their programs with point-getting moves. They will have no choice. They'd be stupid not to. Fine to try to increase the quantifiable elements for the judges, but I don't think it's going to make the judging anymore objective or "fair" than it is now. Judges who want to see certain skaters do well will find ways go fudge points.

IMO it's the tension between the artistic and sports elements of figure skating that make it so compelling to watch. The trick is trying to find the right balance between the two. Unfortunately, none of the powers that be at the ISU have the insight or foresight to learn from the mistakes made by gymnastics, which had a situation very similar to figure skating. I think the ISU can't see the skating for the jumps.

As for US Nationals: I was under the impression that national competitions were supposed to go by whatever the ISU decided for international competitions if they wanted their skaters to qualify for Worlds? It was just my impression and I could be way off. Does anybody know what the deal is?
Barfing Rgirl
PS As to how today's gymnasts get into Cirque du Soleil, it's not necessarily the World and Olympic medalists who make the best performers for a situation like Cirque. Once you get to the elite level, say the top 2%, they can all do phenomenal moves. It's the ones who can make the transition to making magic who can continue in a performing situation rather than those who are limited to execution drills.

 

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sk8ing lady2001

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #12

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Remember the good old days. They were good. Old. Days.

 

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Shallah.K

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #13

re: whether the US will use 6.0 or new system at '04 nats

I am pretty sure that the USFSA is already not sticking the ISU way by using majority ordinals to win vs. OBO. It appears that National federations have some choice in how they run their own competitions. Canadian Nationals uses qualifying to prep skaters for Worlds and it's qualifying round. USFSA does not. I believe China added an additional artistic program to the normal short program & long program in their Nationals to encourage artistic growth in their skaters. A few years ago Chen Lu won China's Nationals inspite of her being inelegible for ISU competitions, I believe the ISU protested but couldn't do anything to punish China for it. We will just have to keep our eyes pealed for news from the USFSA on what their next move will be regarding using the non-6.0 code of points scoring system at coming USFSA senior level events.

 

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Shallah.K

Guest

• Jan 10, 2003

• #14

If anyone wants to let the ISU know you think

this will ruin skating here is ISU's contact info:

Chemin de Primerose 2
CH 1007
Lausanne, Switzerland

Tel: (+41) 21 612 66 66
Fax: (+41) 21 612 66 77

E-Mail: [email protected]

above info from ISU site here:
ww2.isu.org/organization/office.html

Contact info for national federations here:
ww2.isu.org/organization/members.html

<strong>THE UNITED STATES FIGURE SKATING ASSOCIATION</strong> (Figure Skating Member)
Address:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 20 First Street, Colorado Springs, CO 80906-3697
Telefax:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (+1) 719 635 95 48
Telephone:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (+1) 719 635 52 00
Web page:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp www.usfsa.org
E-mail:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp [email protected]
President:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Howard Phyllis F., Mrs
Executive Director:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LeFevre John F., Mr

<strong>SKATE CANADA</strong> (Figure Skating Member)
Address:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 865 Shefford Road, Gloucester, Ontario K1J 1H9
Telefax:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (+1) 613 748 57 18
Telephone:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (+1) 613 748 56 35
E-mail:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp [email protected] [email protected]
Web page:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp www.skatecanada.ca
President:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Chidlow Marilyn, Mrs
Chief Executive Officer: Coburn Pam, Mrs

 

V

v1234

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #15

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Oh, come on guys. If we want figure skating to be a sport, it should be quantifiable. It might become more athletic and less artistic, but that's what a sport is supposed to be. Otherwise, figure skating should be an art. With art, everyone has their own preference and that is ok, but there are no medals either.

Besides, gymnastics is not all that bad, I like the new system. The artistry is really a bit impacted only in the women's floor and possibly beam exercises. Men were never really artistic. And now with this system you can see medal winners from all kinds of countries, not just the "powers to be". Actually, gymnastics might be gaining popularity in many other countries as we speak. And figure skating has been loosing popularity for a long time now, because it's been only a few select countries that have been battling for power, and the rest didn't even have a fair chance...

 

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FetalAttraction

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #16

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

If figure skating is losing popularity in other countries, what does it have to do with artistry vs. athleticism? Are you saying that countries besides the few dozen that have elite skaters don't value artistry at all? If it is really losing popularity in those countries, it's because the ISU and the judging are corrupt. This new system does not address corruption at all, your objection to it falls flat.

 

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v1234

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #17

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

I believe the system would address corruption, because as everything will be more quantifiable, judges will not be able to do whatever they want and then just say well, this program was very "difficult", this person might do this technical element worse than the other, but he/she/they are very "artistic" and so on and so forth without strictly defining "difficult" and "artistic". Everybody will know how difficult a program is by its starting value, and the artistry, well, the sprinters and skiers are not artistic either, but they sure are athletes. Actually, then the skaters might focus more on the precision and clean execution of ALL the elements, not just go for the big jumps (I've seen gymnasts lose points for dance movements even if they hit the more difficult elements and not win). Nowadays, as far as I understand, many ladies are not able to do the lutz jump properly, but because they are "more artistic" or whatever, they are not penalized, even in the short program.

And as for the other countries, no, their skaters are no less artistic or worse than the skaters of the big powers. It's just that they have small and not influential federations, and under the current systems this is what a skater needs to have in order to be in contention (especially, but not only in ice dance).

 

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FetalAttraction

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #18

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

If element by element scoring is somehow more objective, why the need for 10 judges? Why use judges at all? We can just have a referee ratify each move and be done with it. As long as human judges are used, they can tamper with the scores. The obviousness of a result does not stop judges from cheating, as we've seen time and time again.

What you're saying is that you prefer figure skating excise most of its pesky intangibles and become a strict quantifiable sport like skiing and such. What you really want is a nice simple skating competition with no music and just endless demonstrations of various moves. They already have skate jumping competitions, go be a fan of those instead and leave figure skating alone.

 

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mathman444

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #19

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

I think that I agree with the points that v1234 has made.

--Welcome to Golden Skate, v1234. I hope you like it here and stick around! --

There will always be judging controversies, scandals and suspicions of backroom pre-judging unless we can make the sport quantifiable. Otherwise it's just, well, I liked that performance, you didn't, too bad. I am willing to give the point system a try and see what happens. v1234 made a good point about rewarding other elements (spirals, footwork, connecting moves) than just jumps.

Mathman

 

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v1234

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #20

Re: Non-6.0 Scoring System Goes In Effect Next Season!

Oh, FetalAttraction, I don't really need the attitude! You know what I am saying, why bend it? And do you know the judges in gymnastics? Anyway...

I love figure skating, and I love ballet as well. But ballet is not a sport, and it should not be. I do not want the top jump competition (and by the way, figure skating is much more than jumps; also until the early 90s, figures were compulsory for the skaters and justifiably so). What I am saying is that too much emphasis is put on artistry now and for this reason the door to corruption is much more open. For crying out loud, the artistic mark is the tiebreaker these days! In order to qualify as a SPORT, figure skating should make the effort to balance athleticism and artistry better, putting the emphasis on the technical elements.

Otherwise, as an art and in exhibitions, bring on the artistry, it's the only thing I need!

So let's first see how the new system might work out before making big predictions and hating it even without seeing it in action.