A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

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RED DOG45

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #1

A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

I'm relatively new to skating, but I read some of these threads and I see that there were once "figures". What exactly are/were figures? Thanks to those in advance who can help me out.

 

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Show 42

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #2

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Hi Red........others can elaborate, but basically, figures were predetermined patterns or tracings on the ice. Once determined, the skater had to "skate" this figure, and then repeat the tracing over the original pattern. Judges then determined how precise the repeated tracing was compared to the original...........42

 

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megsk8z

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #3

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Figures are what put the "figure" in figure skating. Originally, figure skating consisted of tracing patterns on the ice using edges and turns such as rockers, counters, and 3 turns.
There were a number of patterns to do, some of which were quite complicated, most consisted of 2 or 3 circles on the ice. The idea was to be able to trace, as closely as possible, a perfect circle on the ice, then retrace it two times more. Judges would actually get down on their hands and knees to check for flats (rather than edges) and clean changes of edge done at the appropriate time.
It was tedious and exacting work, generally done at some hour of the morning when sane people were in bed (I believe my ice time for figures was something like 5am). Many, many hours of practice were required to pass these tests and you could not skate as a Senior until you had passed all 8 of these tests. Naturally, this delayed the debut of many a promising free skater until a later age than is currently considered "prime" age for skating.
Hope this helps.

 

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RED DOG45

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #4

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Thank you very much for your help, Show 42 and megsk8z. I now understand it better...so is the tedious process the reason they eliminated figures?

 

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RealtorGal

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #5

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

<span style="color:navy;font-family:helvetica;font-size:small;">I'm suddenly feeling old because I know the answer to that question. </span

 

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Grgranny

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #6

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

I think another reason they quit is that there were a number that did figures great but couldn't skate worth a hoot but ended up winning because they received such high scores on their figures.

 

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sspye

Guest

• Jan 11, 2003

• #7

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Meg, I had 5 am figure's practice, also!!! I was a good spinner, lousy jumper...but my figure's YEESH...they were bad. All my tracings on the Forward Inside Edge were my downfall. My Mom also complained about the $60 scribe for placing my circles. We are talking early 70's...back when I wanted to be like Peggy. LOL

Denise

 

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heyang

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #8

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Since figures are too boring for TV and were such a large part of the scoring, the general public didn't understand the scoring. Figures were eliminated to make skating more media friendly.

I've never seen figures performed - except during a routine Boitano choreographed to specifically portray the beauty of figures. In a book, someone mentioned that Trixie Schuba was asked to perform an intricate figure during an exhibition tour as 'proof' of why she won her medal.

In a sense, performing figures is one aspect that judges cannot cheat. It's all about the tracing and time is allowed for studying the result.

Wonder if the ISU has ever regretted the decision to eliminate figures?

 

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Darkchilde11201

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #9

Oh. . .Hey. . .

I'm just testing my new hard-fought-for and hard-won siggie.

Ain't it grand? Don't be jealous, y'all.

Thanks RGal and Rgirl.

And just so everybody knows. . . my current goal is to get 100 posts ASAP so that I can email Paula and take possession of my new custom title. I already know what it's going to be, too.

Man! Sometimes I'm so single-minded that I scare myself!

Oh, yeah. I like figures. Always did. It wouldn't bother me in the least to see them reinstated.

 

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Figureskates

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #10

Re: Oh. . .Hey. . .

Personally, I think the elimination of figures was not a good thing.

For one thing it taught you patience and control., long before you went into freestyle.

I started with figures way back when I first learned to skate and now that I am a lot older and my jumping days are coming to end, I find that figures are a fun, non tramatic form of skating...it sure is a lot easier on my joints...

 

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CartDi

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #11

me too

I've read a lot of posts were people talk about figures and things, and I had an idea what they were, but I still wasn't entirely sure, so thanks to all of you for explaining it! How long ago were figures eliminated?

 

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icenut84

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #12

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I've never seen figures performed - except during a routine Boitano choreographed to specifically portray the beauty of figures.[/quote]

In the exhibition gala at the 94 Olympics, IIRC Surya Bonaly (!) started her performance by doing a figure. She got quite a bit of applause afterwards as she continued into the main part of the programme. Maybe that was her way of giving two fingers to those who criticised her basic skating and skills.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>How long ago were figures eliminated? [/quote]

They were gradually reduced in importance through the years (e.g. they used to be worth something like 70%+ of the result, and this percentage was made less and less), and I believe the last time they were used in the World championships was 1990 (?) Can anyone verify that? It was around that time anyway. Also, just for your interest, apparently they used to give three gold medals, one for figures and one for free skating (the short + long programmes), and one overall (the world champion). Robin Cousins, who won 1980 Olympic gold, won the "world free skating" gold medal 3 times but was never world champion.

 

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Rboi

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #13

What were figures? Well.....

...they were hateful, evil, boring, took up too much (I felt) of my practice time and worst of all, no matter how hard I tried, my patches still ended up looking like a dog's breakfast!

However, I do regret the demise of figures and would like to see them back, albeit not with the emphasis that they had in the "old" days when competitions could be won or lost on figures.

I'm pretty sure figures were dropped after 90 Worlds - Midori Ito won both SP and LP, but blew her figures (as per usual) to finish 2nd overall.

 

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RealtorGal

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #14

Re: What were figures? Well.....

<span style="color:maroon;font-family:helvetica;font-size:small;"> "Wonder if the ISU has ever regretted the decision to eliminate figures?" </span>

<span style="color:navy;font-family:helvetica;font-size:small;">I doubt it. Can you imagine the excitement generated by this TV commercial: "Tonight at 8: Figure Skating Figures Competition". Ooh! The excitement! </span>:rollin:

 

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Princess Leppard 625

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #15

Re: What were figures? Well.....

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:small;">I believe there was also a lot of collusion among the judges on how to score the figures...ooh, what a surprise!

Laura </span>

 

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Grgranny

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #16

Re: What were figures? Well.....

I don't remember which book I read about it but at least one of them said the judging of figures was worse than the judging of the rest of the programs. They just gave them whatever grades they wanted them to have to give them a better chance of winning. So, in that case, I think it was a good thing to get rid of them. But I know that the skaters don't use the good edging now as they once did. Maybe there could be a happy medium. It took so long to practice them that they wouldn't have had time to practice the quads so also it would have kept a lot of injuries from happening.
Gosh, I must be on a roll today. :rollin:

 

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JOHIO2

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #17

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Hi heyang,

I think it is Brian Boitano's rival, Brian Orser who does the tribute to figures program. I even remember the sweater and slacks outfit he wears when he performs it. In fact, I seem to remember that he won a pro am (the Canadian?) a year or two ago performing that program.

 

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heyang

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #18

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Hey, JOHIO

Maybe Orser had a program, too. I know Boitano did one - it had the word 'Angles' in the title. He wore an outfit that would be reminiscent of a skater practicing figures - very simple , almost like just a thermal top and snug pants.

 

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sspye

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #19

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

JOHIO...and those of you unfamiliar with school figures (patch skating) namely figure 8's.

My early mornings began as I prepared to scribe my perfect circles on the ice.

I would take my scribe and scratch my perfect circles onto the ice (a scribe is a device with teeth on the very end that 'scratch' perfect circles onto the ice.) I set my scribe to be approx. 1 1/2 times my height. Meaning, my circles would be perfectly set to my individual size.

I would set the none moveable end of my scribe in the ice...set the 'scratching' end and twirl around until I had a pervect circle. Then, carefully, I would lift the 'setting point' of my scribe and make yet another identicle circle onto the ice.

I then took a heel of one blade and 'scratched' into the ice my 'setting point' for my figure 8's...

I would practice figure 8's for hours upon hours. I would start 'tracing' my circle's on the forward outside edge... Then I would switch to tracing these patterns with the forward inside edge...then I would practice these patterns starting by using the forward outside edge, into a three turn to the back inside edge, change foot to the back outside switching feet, then mohawk stepping back into the original position of outside edge (mohawk). I would have to be counting the entire time. 1 - 2 - 3 (forward outside edge), three turn 4 - 5 - 6 then change of foot to back outside edge, 7 - 8 - 9, (mohawk) back to the forward outside edge 10 - 11 - 12.

These grueling exercises were for both feet. If you understood that...reverse it all starting on the forward inside edge...

Like I said before, my forward inside edges were the worst for me!!! I had terrible control on any forward inside edge!!!

That's all for now, my niece needs to use my computer for homework...I'll be back later...

 

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Skate Sandee

Guest

• Jan 12, 2003

• #20

Re: A Question...Hope you can help me out here.

Yes - 1990 was the last time figures were used at Worlds. I remember that competition because Midori Ito bombed her figures, and even a super SP and an LP with the triple axle couldn't help her win. Trenary won that year.

The irony is that in 1991, everyone figured Ito would clean up at Worlds with the elimination of figures. But she was off and had that infamous triple lutz right out of the rink and into the camera pit!

Figures used to be where a skater had to pay their dues. That's why an Oksana, Michelle Kwan (in her 95-96 years), Tara, etc. would NEVER have ANY medal, never mind gold, if figures were still around at the start of their careers. They would have had to put in a few years before coming close to the top.

Despite the ample opportunity for judging collusion with figures, I still think a happy medium should be struck. I cringe when I see poor edging and stroking. If figures were still used today, someone like Nelida (from Russia) would never be allowed to enter the building of a senior's competition, never mind actually compete - her basic stroking/edging is so bad (triple axle be damned!)

I'd like to see figures be used at all levels of testing, and maybe as a qualifier at Worlds. You could lock all the judges in a room, allow the skater to do the figures, hide the skater, and then let the judges judge the tracings without knowing which skater did them. That would eliminate any judging shenanigans.

Well I can dream!