Discussion - Is Sasha's Skating Brittle or Fragile?

Mathman · May 30, 2005

About edges, it's kind of unfair to compare Sasha at her present level of accomplishment with skaters like Dorothy Hamill, Kristi Yamaguchi, Yuka Sato or Katerina Gordeeva. These are all World or Olympic champions who went on from there to refine and perfect their craft over long careers as professional artists.

MM

kyla2 · May 30, 2005

Balletic Line

A rose is still a rose no matter what you call it. O.K. just for the sake of not arguing with you, we will call it balletic line. I would bet your life and mine that many skaters would trade their "edges" for Sasha's "balletic line." I am not GUSHING about Sasha, only stating an opinion. Sadly, I think one of the posters above (Hikaru?) is right, that people can't separate their dislike of Sasha personally, from what she puts out their on the ice. I got beyond that a long time ago. She deserves our respect for what she has been able to accomplish. She has mine.

jesslily · May 30, 2005

Yuka Sato does have very good edges and flow. Sorry that I did not mention about her. But I definitely think Nicole BobeK has lousy edges. Her jumps were also far from what textbook said. Kristy and Kwan sisters did learn some figures, but their edges are still far from the great.

Hikaru · May 30, 2005

Joesitz said:
As I said before, the fragile adjective denotes a fine piece of sculptured porceline. It is not a put down of Sasha, On the contrary, it is praise.

I'm sorry Joe, I don't know if you were referring to my previous post , but it was my mistake as I didn't clarify very well; I didn't mean that by using the word "fragile" you were trying to put Sasha down. I was referring actually to what Shine had said earlier: "shallow is the word I'd use to describe her skating, and I don't just mean her edges."

Joesitz said:
Unless you've seen ballets, it is not the adjective to use with skating. There is such a thing as balletic line which was introduced by Tenley Albright many moons ago. Most skaters have balletic line nowadays and Sasha seems to accentuate hers more than others. Why not? It's one of many, many styles that figure skaters develop personally.

ITA

BronzeisGolden · May 30, 2005

The only thing I've ever griped about in regards to Cohen has more to do with her performance level. Nearly all of her technical elements are well done and beautiful to watch, but at times it seems there is a certain disconnect with the audience. It almost seems like she is skating in a fog at times....though, a beautiful fog it is! Kwan, at times, suffers from a similar problem. She sometimes appears flat and uninteresting. Having said that, it seems Sasha is getting more and more comfortable and allowing this passion to shine through in her performances far more than she used to. Her 2004 Worlds "Malaguena" SP performance was excellent. I was so happy to see her let go a bit and allow her fiery personality to carry her through. This year (even though it wasn't the best season for her) there were so many moments where it seemed like she was genuinely enjoying her time on the ice. That is what I have always wanted to see from Sasha. She has everything else, but I always wanted just a bit more feeling. She is coming along very nicely in this department and I see no reason why she shouldn't continue to improve.

mzheng · May 31, 2005

nymkfan51 said:
IIRC, didn't she make good strides with Robin on her edges and stroking? I think I remember Robin specifically working on that with her.
Of course, then she left Robin.

IIRC, she started improving edge when she was with TT. TT had commented (read in one of her interview from FSU) that before Sasha came to her, her skating is not in the sense of true skating, it's one gymastic move after another on ice wiht shallow edges. She had worked with Sasha on overall skating, edges, flows, etc. It did show in her skating at 2003 season. But, IMO, TT's jam packed CoP friendly programs the next season made it difficult to see the obviouse flow and edges improving in Sasha's programs. It was until Robin stripped the SwanLake to almost bear bone that Sasha's improving on edge and flows was shown so obviousely....It was TT laid the foundation of improvement. IMO.

And besides edges and stroking those things took time to improving....Her edge improving was so obvious to those who wittnessed her skating in person before she left Cal for TT and first back to Cal with John N....So I've heard.

jesslily · May 31, 2005

TT might have worked Sasha's edges and artistic sides, but Sasha's jumps got much worse while she was there.

gezando · May 31, 2005

kyla2 said:
I would bet your life and mine that many skaters would trade their "edges" for Sasha's "balletic line."

You don't have what it takes to bet others life, your own?? questionable?? :laugh:

Are you sure Yukina Ota wants Sasha's line? Is there a possibiity that Cohen may want Ota's balletic arms? :rofl:

Are you sure Irina wants to trade her edges with Cohen's lines, or are you sure that Cohen may not want to have Irina's edges? :biggrin:

This line stuff is way overblown by American commentators like Dick and Peggy. (BTW, if you want to take Dick and Peggy's comments as gospel truth, you have to take their gush and their not so gush about Cohen. Even Dick talked about Cohen's flutz, and Peggy called her the best practice skater) I think in other countries e.g. Japan, skaters do not crave lines, young Japanese skaters look up to Midori, Yuka and Shizuka as role models Are you sure Mao wants to just concentrate her training re: lines.

I am not GUSHING about Sasha, only stating an opinion.

Then please respect that others do not agree with your opinion.

Sadly, I think one of the posters above (Hikaru?) is right, that people can't separate their dislike of Sasha personally,

Actually, I think a Cohen fan like you is way exaggerating the importance of lines to elevate Cohen to the "most exquisite" "the best" If that is not gushing, I don't know what is. It is Ok for you to gush, but don't attack others for recognizing Cohen is one good skater among many, or one exquisite skater among many.

I got beyond that a long time ago.

Really

gezando · May 31, 2005

Mathman said:
About edges, it's kind of unfair to compare Sasha at her present level of accomplishment with skaters like Dorothy Hamill, Kristi Yamaguchi, Yuka Sato or Katerina Gordeeva. These are all World or Olympic champions who went on from there to refine and perfect their craft over long careers as professional artists.

MM

Who is comparing Cohen's edges to Katia's edges? But since you brought it up :laugh:

How about a 15 y/o Tara, a 16 y/o Sarah Hughes, how about a 15 y/o Katia?? How about a 16 y/o Carolina? How about a 17 y/o Irina? How about a 15 y/o Oksana? a 19 y/o Fumie, a 18 y/o Yuka? :biggrin:

kyla2 · Jun 1, 2005

gezando

I don't care whether you like Sasha as a skater or as a person or not. What you say when you post, reflects on you, not me. I would happily bet your life on just about anything.

Peggy · Jun 1, 2005

kyla2 said:
It really amazes me that so many people who TRULY know figure skating (like Olympic Gold medalists) admire Sasha's skating tremendously. I mean what do they know??? Here we have experts that describe her skating as shallow and not balletic (you've got to be kidding). Gee, who should I believe? I think I will believe my own eyes and I wish in my dreams I could skate like Sasha.

Kyla2,
You're right on--I totally agree with you. I watch old videos of Sasha's all the time and listen to the praises of Dick and Peggy not to mention Terry Gannon's choked up replys. It is incrediable to me that some people don't appreciate how amazingly beautiful her skating is, weather or not she is their favorite. It is probably the fear factor for their particular favorite skater that causes so much criticism. We all want our favorites to win but Sasha is put down more than most other skaters. No skater is perfect - they can all use improvements in certain areas. Some people think if you don't fall or stumble that the program is perfect regardless if the elements performed were perfect or not, I just don't happen to see it that way. I'm with Dick and Peggy and you--she is awesome.

TheBitch · Jun 1, 2005

kyla2 said:
It really amazes me that so many people who TRULY know figure skating (like Olympic Gold medalists) admire Sasha's skating tremendously. I mean what do they know??? Here we have experts that describe her skating as shallow and not balletic (you've got to be kidding). Gee, who should I believe? I think I will believe my own eyes and I wish in my dreams I could skate like Sasha.

Hmm... so you want to fall on your butt each time you compete?

soogar · Jun 1, 2005

TheBitch said:
Hmm... so you want to fall on your butt each time you compete?

Hey , it worked for Kristi Yamaguchi and Nancy Kerrigan (her only clean LP was at the 1994 Games and she won 1992 bronze with a particularly ugly program whose only redeeming quality was the Vera Wang dress).

gezando · Jun 1, 2005

kyla2 said:
I would happily bet your life on just about anything.

Kyla you don't have what it takes to bet on others life period. Besides what you wrote reflects on you, who are you? Someone who throws a tantrum when she does not get her way :rofl:

Lets see what yor wrote, when others do not gush about Cohen the way you wanted them to you accused them as uber Kwan fans. Then you admit as being an uber Kwan fan. When others disagreed with you and refused to bow down to Cohen you list your cv and insult them by infering mental illness. Happily bet others life on anything? have 29 - 30 years of experience of being trigger happy

gezando · Jun 1, 2005

soogar said:
Hey , it worked for Kristi Yamaguchi

KIristi? She hands down on a jump at the olympics, did not fall on her butt. Kristi is one of the most consistent skaters in her competitive days

kyla2 · Jun 1, 2005

gezando

You're over the top, as usual. But I was warned about that when I first started posting here, by someone I shall leave nameless. You are certainly living up to your reputation.

gezando · Jun 1, 2005

kyla2 said:
You're over the top, as usual. But I was warned about that when I first started posting here, by someone I shall leave nameless.

Sure you are not the one who is over the top "as usual"? I mean talk about happily bet others life on anything (given that you post your cv here, told us what you do) if that is not over the top, I don't know what is :rofl:

I will play along and proced with this line of thought that your "nameless" buddy communicated to you, not interested in the identity of your "nameless" friend, IMO you are over the top, so your buddy sent you a PM, PM means private, and you evidently can't keep things private.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2005

Easy Ladies - The topic is about Sasha's style. Either you like or you don't. Over and Out!!

Joe

shine · Jun 1, 2005

Peggy said:
Kyla2,
You're right on--I totally agree with you. I watch old videos of Sasha's all the time and listen to the praises of Dick and Peggy not to mention Terry Gannon's choked up replys. It is incrediable to me that some people don't appreciate how amazingly beautiful her skating is, weather or not she is their favorite. It is probably the fear factor for their particular favorite skater that causes so much criticism. We all want our favorites to win but Sasha is put down more than most other skaters. No skater is perfect - they can all use improvements in certain areas. Some people think if you don't fall or stumble that the program is perfect regardless if the elements performed were perfect or not, I just don't happen to see it that way. I'm with Dick and Peggy and you--she is awesome.

No, it's not that I don't appreciate how "amazing beautiful her skating is", it's just that I DO grow sick and tired of the portrayl, by so many of her fans, of Cohen being the most amazingly gifted artist on ice ever, when in fact there are so many other skaters whom I consider much superior in that aspect yet are much more underhyped.

dancindiva03 · Jun 1, 2005

Peggy said:
Kyla2,
You're right on--I totally agree with you. I watch old videos of Sasha's all the time and listen to the praises of Dick and Peggy not to mention Terry Gannon's choked up replys. It is incrediable to me that some people don't appreciate how amazingly beautiful her skating is, weather or not she is their favorite. It is probably the fear factor for their particular favorite skater that causes so much criticism. We all want our favorites to win but Sasha is put down more than most other skaters. No skater is perfect - they can all use improvements in certain areas. Some people think if you don't fall or stumble that the program is perfect regardless if the elements performed were perfect or not, I just don't happen to see it that way. I'm with Dick and Peggy and you--she is awesome.

Maybe some people don't appreciate how "beautiful" her skating is because not everyone sees it as beautiful. To me, beautiful skating is deep, steady, quiet edges, total confidence in what one is doing, real connection to the music and with the audience. Sasha's lines are beautful and her spin positions are nice, but overall her skating does not meet my own criteria of beautiful skating. That's not to say that I think everyone should use these criteria, they are just the things I like to see when I watch skating, and that I try to incorporate into my own skating.

Discussion - Is Sasha's Skating Brittle or Fragile?

Mathman

kyla2

jesslily

Hikaru

BronzeisGolden

mzheng

jesslily

gezando

gezando

kyla2

Peggy

TheBitch

Match Penalty

soogar

gezando

gezando

kyla2

gezando

Joesitz (RIP)

shine

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

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