Arakawa vs Suguri at the Olympics! | Golden Skate

Arakawa vs Suguri at the Olympics!

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slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
It was interesting at the Olympics Arakawa and Suguri both skated clean short programs, and in the long both did the same performances as far as jump content and mistakes, 5 triples clean and 1 triple popped to a double. Arakawa though smoked Suguri in every aspect of scoring, Jump GOE, spins, footwork, spirals, PCS. This resulted in a gap between them of about 16 total points even with the same jump content and the same mistakes and of course the difference between the easy winner and not being that close to the podium.
 
I don't, however, think Suguri was mistreated by the judges, in comparison to Arakawa.

Correcting for the mistakes (Fumie's doubled flip and Shizuka's doubled loop), Shizuka is still ahead on jump base values, 42.2 to 40.9. Plus, Shizuka skated beautifully and deserved those high GOEs and PCSs, in my opinion.
 
I agree. I do think Fumie was held back a bit in PCS, especially in the SP, but Shiz's spirals, FW, spins and transitions put her apart from the crowd. Had she nailed her 3lutz/3loop in SP (instead she landed a heavy 3lz/2t), she SHOULD have been the leader after the SP. I really like Shiz's programs last year. They did her and COP justice. On the other hand, I was disappointed with Lori's work for Fumie and didn't think they helped her.
 
The interesting thing about Suguri as well is even if she had no mistakes in the short and long both, the scores show that she still would not have won a medal of any color even with the very flawed performances of Cohen and Slutskaya. On the other hand even if Slutskaya had not had her two major errors and been clean, the scores indicate it would have been a virtual tie still for the gold medal between her and Arakawa, even with Arakawa's doubled jump(assuming reasonable gain in PCS/GOE). Cohen without her two major errors would have been ahead, but probably would still have lost then if Arakawa had added the triple she doubled and the triple-triple early on she had been doing in practice. That just gives you a clearer idea how far apart the two were.
 
Fumie left the building crying in Torino. I felt really bad for her. I wish she would have at least got the bronze.
 
Bill508 said:
Fumie left the building crying in Torino. I felt really bad for her. I wish she would have at least got the bronze.
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That would have been nice for Fumie but she would have had to knock out either Cohen or Slutskaya. I think Slutskaya fans think she should have been second. I think the majority of the viewers think that Cohen's remainder of her program after the two spills compensated for her high scores.

In either case, the judges have the final word, but disagreeing with them is anyone's perogative.

Joe
 
I think if Fumie was a Russian or American she would have won the silver easily. That is my personal view. Arakawa still would have won easily though. Cohen should have been 4th or 5th in the free skate and off the podium altogether. I am a Slutskaya fan and I dont think she should have gotten 2nd. I think 3rd was right for her performance, but it should have been behind Suguri, and over Sasha "overscore" Cohen, as opposed to the other way around. I actually put together the scores the way I would have had them under COP to see what the point totals would have been.
 
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Bill508 said:
Fumie left the building crying in Torino. I felt really bad for her. I wish she would have at least got the bronze.
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I agree with this Bill, I felt bad too - but also for Ira, and Sasha even thought she wasn't getting a metal IMO. It was a weird night of scouring IMO with the CoP. I feel a little bit that "Bunniie" (Fumie):laugh: was underscored at the SP and that made most of the difference. But I think that her placement was realistic, I just have to accept the scores were the way they were - I still have a hard time getting the new scoring sys, and thanks to some of the posters here I might get it a little better as the new season starts.

Shi-chans LP routine looked to me that her late double was intentional - she knew she didn't need the 3. And as far as spiral and trans, she stood way out as the best that night. If my "Dream Test Baby" (FS) wants to get the gold, more assuredly (regardless of others night and who is there), 3x3, better extension and attitude, and sitspins = a gold for her. Otherwise she will need other aspects to "fall in her favor" plus have a clean skate.

My not so technically or knowledgeable brain would have placed her 3rd for the whole, But I would have had her 3rd after the SP. Her performance in my mind was more "alive" to me - but how many points does that get?:laugh:
Her spiral sequence is just not enough to gain a "bonus", particularly if she lacks a 3x3.

I have a feeling she will be taking a strong hold as a leader this year (well in light of the changes in line-up that is fairly obvious) with out the pressures from all sides that have been on the skaters taking that role before her. I think Miki has more exterior pressure, and Kimmie from the US. Fumie biggest issue I believe this year will be the pressure from herself to become that tinny bit better, and If she does it will be golds and I have a prediction of Gold for the GP in the final.
 
The fact that the judges would have had Fumie off the podium altogether even without a single mistake, and with Sasha and Irina skating like they did is a pretty good indication where the judges see her skating. That alone would be enough to make somebody cry.
 
slutskayafan21 said:
The fact that the judges would have had Fumie off the podium altogether even without a single mistake, and with Sasha and Irina skating like they did is a pretty good indication where the judges see her skating. That alone would be enough to make somebody cry.
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I agree... and its a sad state of affairs...
 
Well, considering she did beat Sasha while both made mistakes (Sasha's much more costly) at Worlds shows me the judges don't dislike Fumie as much as some believe. Fumie went home after Turin and reworked her spins. She was rewarded for it. But she didn't skate her LP clean, and she still placed ahead of Sasha (who was 4th after the LP.)
 
I do not believe Irina should have won silver at Torino. She doubled the flip in her 3T2T combination, wich cost her 4.2 points right there, and fell on the 3L. But the killer for Irina was that she skated with little speed (which probably caused the fall on the loop), and none of the zest she displayed in her GP and Worlds 2005 performances. The lack of speed and expression cost her in the GOE for both jump and non-jump elements, and overall in the PCS.

OTOH, Sasha got credit for full rotation on her opening jumps, and she lost fewer points for her mistakes than Irina did. After her mistakes, Sasha recovered well and went on to deliver the rest of her performance with more feeling and expression than she had ever shown in the past, and was rewarded with high GOE for her non-jump elements. Because of the extra pizzazz in her performance, Sasha outscored Irina on the TES by 1.35 points, and on the PCS by 0.54 points, and very deservedly, IMHO.

Fumie, who I generally like, lacks polish and refinement in her jump and non-jump elements (except for the final scratch spin), and her expression is restrained. She has not and never will score as high in GOE and PCS as Sasha or Irina, even when she skates cleanly (which is rare, anyway). I don't see Fumie beating Kimmie Meissner unless Fumie skates completely cleanly and Kimmie makes mistakes, and she is even more unlikely to beat Mao unless Mao's high-point "tricks" fail her.
 
Actually I think Fumie would have no problem beating Meissner if Meissner did not do her triple-triples. Is it certain she is going to keep attempting them at each competition? I agree she wont beat Asada unless Asada blows a couple of her big trick jumps, but her body looks like it has alot of developing to do and she might go through problems with that in the coming years.
 
I am interested to see what happenes with Mao. If she can continue to build on the last two seasons, she just may end up being one of Japan's best skaters ever. She went through a growth spurt at the beginning of 2006, but her skate at the Japanese Invitational was amazing, her jumps better than at GPF, I thought. She needs more maturity and to develop a style, hopefully no more cutsey routines with a ponytail and girly dresses, not more blowing kisses and what not.

I do think Fumie has an edge over Kimmie if Kimmie doesn't land her 3/3's. I'd like to believe if Fumie is clean and includes her spins from Worlds '06, her spirals from teh 2005-05 season, that she can beat Kimmie, I like her that much. Mao could be tough for Fumie to beat if she's clean, or just a minor mistake-she does have a beillmann and tough combos even w/o a 3/3 in the LP. I think she has nice spins, spirals and real ice presence. I think her FW is much too simple, especially in comparison to the rest of her program. But I think at this point, Fumie's the better skater as far as speed, edges, ice coverage go, and artistically stronger. Kinda like comparing Michelle and Kimmie, IMO.
 
MKFSfan - You seem to be a big fan of Fumie. I like her too, but when comparing her to another skater, how much are your fan feelings involved?

1. How much difference in Fumie's and Kimmie's ages?

2. How much difference in their time on the senior circuit?

3. Do they have wow moves? Are they comparable?

4. Do they have the respect of their Federations?

5. Does travel affect either one?

6. Do they cope well with pressure?

7. How important are your 'ifs'?

There are probably a slew of more comparative questions, but my mind is now boggled.

I really think the 'new era' is going to commence this season with the GPs, and not just for the Ladies.

Joe
 
The problem for Fumie is skating a clean FS. She apparently did it at Japanese Nationals, but was not clean at Torino and Worlds.

The pressure will be heavy on the Japanese skaters at Worlds this year in Tokyo, which means the pressure will be on them from the first time they set foot on the ice this coming season. EVERY competition will help to determine which three (of Mao, Fumie, Yukari, Miki, Yoshie) get to skate in Tokyo . It seems as if Miki is the one on the bubble. She has a lot to prove, after her disastrous 2005-2006 season.
 
I actually assumed Yoshie would retire but I heard nothing of it so she must not have. I really think you will have Asada and Suguri as the top two Japanese women at Nationals next year, although probably in that order; and then you will have Ando and Nakano fighting for the 3rd spot. I would be surprised to see Onda really in there for 3rd spot.
 
Joesitz said:
MKFSfan - You seem to be a big fan of Fumie. I like her too, but when comparing her to another skater, how much are your fan feelings involved?
Joe
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You bring up important questions. It's hard to weigh a veteran with years of experience, against an up and coming skater. Experience and maturity gives Fumie an advantage. Like I said, I believe Fumie is a strong basic skater and she can have good spins, decent spirals. Yes, she lacks a 3/3, but her technique on jumps, minus the problematic loop and a flutz, is pretty good, nice height, air positions and landing flow. I love her flip. Kimmie has good technique, too, and she's worked hard to bring her spins and spirals up to par. I personally find Fumie more appealing to watch and that her flow over the ice, speed and freedom of movement is better than Kimmie's at this point. Kimmie still needs to mature and get past this somewhat awkward stage she went through this year (which, IMO, showed vast improvement from the season before.) However, if both are clean and Kimmie lands her 3/3's, 7 triple program, I know Kimmie will beat Fumie on technical mark. A 3/3 less Kimmie at both Olympics SP/LP and Worlds SP, was beaten by Fumie (both girls had mistakes, neither perfectly clean.)

I think both have enormous support from their federations, and we have seen Fumie can perform under pressure/expectations. This year we find out about Kimmie and her rumored "nerves of steel." The reason I say rumored-after a fantastic Sr. debut at 2005 Nats, she had a very poor showing at Jr.Worlds, placing 4th, then she got a VERY slow start last fall, many mistakes, but bounced back to have a rather good showing at Nationals, despite being ill. She followed that up with a good Olympics, and a GREAT Worlds. I hope the momentum carries over for her, because without Sasha and Michelle, the spotlight falls squarely on Kimmie.
 
The spotlight on the new girl on the block. that's what we are all waiting to see. really nothing to do with Fumie who can stand on her laurels but she too had a couple of bad seasons there for a while. No one is perfect all the time except Dick Button.

Joe
 
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