- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
The PDF's are in
- Thread starter enlight78
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Very interesting. Stephane Lambiel's skate must have been a lot better than some of the reports had it. For sure the CoP is his friend.
He got full credit for rotating his two quads, even though he had to turn the first one into a 4T/3T sequence instead of a combo, and even though he fell on the second quad. He still picked up base points of 10.40 and 9.90 for these passes, and lost only -2 GOE on the first and -3 GOE plus a -1 fall deduction for the second. That puts him up by 13.4 points for these two elements.
Likewise, he did two double Axels instead of a triple, but he got an extra 2.40 GOE on the two combined. In fact all of his jumps except the quads gave him strong positive GOEs (0 GOE, not negative, for the doubled flip).
He got full credit for rotating his two quads, even though he had to turn the first one into a 4T/3T sequence instead of a combo, and even though he fell on the second quad. He still picked up base points of 10.40 and 9.90 for these passes, and lost only -2 GOE on the first and -3 GOE plus a -1 fall deduction for the second. That puts him up by 13.4 points for these two elements.
Likewise, he did two double Axels instead of a triple, but he got an extra 2.40 GOE on the two combined. In fact all of his jumps except the quads gave him strong positive GOEs (0 GOE, not negative, for the doubled flip).
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
The new judging system does have some peculiarities. I see that Johnny Weir received credit for one of those "phantom sequences." I assume his opening triple Axel was supposed to have been a combo, but he wasn't able to get the second jump off (he got -2 GOE).
Then when he did his solo triple Axel, that was a Zayak violation, so the computer tacked on a "+SEQ" designation to get around it. At least there is a small penalty with the new rule this year. Johnny only got 6.60 points for his second triple Axel instead of 8.25. (7.50 base x 1.10 second half bonus x .8 sequence factor = 6.60.)
Then when he did his solo triple Axel, that was a Zayak violation, so the computer tacked on a "+SEQ" designation to get around it. At least there is a small penalty with the new rule this year. Johnny only got 6.60 points for his second triple Axel instead of 8.25. (7.50 base x 1.10 second half bonus x .8 sequence factor = 6.60.)
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2004
MM, I haven't got a chance to check on the updates for CoP. Could you explain this new rule? Thanks!!!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To Hikaru: The rule (both old and new) is designed so as not to totally crucify you if you miss the back end of an intended combo. The Zayak rule says that if you do two of the same same jump, one of the times it must be in combination. So for instance, if Weir did a 3A/3T combination, then later he did a solo 3A, tht would be OK. But if he flubbed his first element and was not able to get off the triple toe, then he would get 0 points for the second triple Axel.
This was not considered to be fair, because it punishes a skater on the later element for a mistake on the first. But you already got punished for the mistake on the first element (in Johnny's case it cost him 6 points -- 4 for the missing 3T and -2 GOE). If you also took away his second 3A, that would cost him and additional 7.5. So that's a 13 point deduction for missing a jump (the triple toe) that is only worth 4 points in the first place.
So they came up with this idea. If you do a second triple Axel (or repeat any jump) the second one is scored as if you were going to try a combination (even though you weren't). That way you still get credit for your two triple Axels (after all, you landed them), but you don't get credit for the triple toe (which you didn't do anyway).
However, this lends itself to abuse. Ifd I were a skter who could just barely rotate a quad and a triple Axel, falling every time, I could still do 4T(fall), 4T (fall, but protend it was an intended combo), 3A (fall) 3A (fall, pretend combo). This gives me 17 points for my miserable effort.
That's according to last year's rules.
This year they changed the rule so that if you need a phantom jump to avoid the Zayak rule, they give you credit only for a jump SEQUENCE, not a jump COMBINATION. This means you only get 80% of what you would normally get on the elements.
So Johnny did 3A (intending +3T), solo 3A (the rule added "+SEQ"), and so his score for the solo 3A turned out to be 80% of the base score of 7.5. (Plus a bonus of 10% because it was in the second half of the program, minus 3 GOE because he fell and minus 1 GOE -- um, also because he fell.)
Well, that's clear as mud. I love this stuff, LOL.
This was not considered to be fair, because it punishes a skater on the later element for a mistake on the first. But you already got punished for the mistake on the first element (in Johnny's case it cost him 6 points -- 4 for the missing 3T and -2 GOE). If you also took away his second 3A, that would cost him and additional 7.5. So that's a 13 point deduction for missing a jump (the triple toe) that is only worth 4 points in the first place.
So they came up with this idea. If you do a second triple Axel (or repeat any jump) the second one is scored as if you were going to try a combination (even though you weren't). That way you still get credit for your two triple Axels (after all, you landed them), but you don't get credit for the triple toe (which you didn't do anyway).
However, this lends itself to abuse. Ifd I were a skter who could just barely rotate a quad and a triple Axel, falling every time, I could still do 4T(fall), 4T (fall, but protend it was an intended combo), 3A (fall) 3A (fall, pretend combo). This gives me 17 points for my miserable effort.
That's according to last year's rules.
This year they changed the rule so that if you need a phantom jump to avoid the Zayak rule, they give you credit only for a jump SEQUENCE, not a jump COMBINATION. This means you only get 80% of what you would normally get on the elements.
So Johnny did 3A (intending +3T), solo 3A (the rule added "+SEQ"), and so his score for the solo 3A turned out to be 80% of the base score of 7.5. (Plus a bonus of 10% because it was in the second half of the program, minus 3 GOE because he fell and minus 1 GOE -- um, also because he fell.)
Well, that's clear as mud. I love this stuff, LOL.
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