new article about Yuna and her mom

Medusa · Jun 10, 2009

hongligl said:
So if I decided to have another child I would choose the other style, which the child might not be as happy when she was young, but grateful when grown up.

Question is: how many children will be actually grateful for being pushed as children? There is only one Lang Lang, only one Yu-Na Kim - compared to how many children being pushed into playing the piano or skating? Of course, if the children are as successful as Kim or Lang, they might be grateful at some point. But don't kid yourself, the propability of having a Lang or a Kim as a child might be at 0,000001%. And will these other children be grateful for being pushed if they end up with "normal" lives? Or will they always think of themselves as failures, as not worthy of love and support and all the money that was spent on them?

I don't want to judge Mrs Kim, family dynamics are so complicated and nobody knows how their family works / worked (I judge Mr Lang though - he went a bit too far in my book). But articles like these, all these strange reality shows, all the celebrity stuff - seem to indicate that normal lives are not worth living. Has Kim a better life than let's say me or some carpenter in Ireland? How do you measure the success of parenting? By ISU rank? What is success in life?

Tinymavy15 · Jun 10, 2009

Rather stunning article.

yu-na 's parents seem so very out of the picture (i think she is living in Toronto alone) and she usually seems happy has a lively personality, so I did not a stage mom of that extreme. It is amazing that yu-na still seems to enjoy the sport as she does...but i think most teenagers would enjoy being a nationally praised celebrity no matter what the career.

Obviously, yu-na's mom's work paid off...but i wonder if that made her Dad and sister feel any better? I feel sorry for them.

hongligl · Jun 10, 2009

Medusa said:
Question is: how many children will be actually grateful for being pushed as children? There is only one Lang Lang, only one Yu-Na Kim - compared to how many children being pushed into playing the piano or skating? Of course, if the children are as successful as Kim or Lang, they might be grateful at some point. But don't kid yourself, the propability of having a Lang or a Kim as a child might be at 0,000001%. And will these other children be grateful for being pushed if they end up with "normal" lives? Or will they always think of themselves as failures, as not worthy of love and support and all the money that was spent on them?

I don't want to judge Mrs Kim, family dynamics are so complicated and nobody knows how their family works / worked (I judge Mr Lang though - he went a bit too far in my book). But articles like these, all these strange reality shows, all the celebrity stuff - seem to indicate that normal lives are not worth living. Has Kim a better life than let's say me or some carpenter in Ireland? How do you measure the success of parenting? By ISU rank? What is success in life?

Well I was just relating as a parent in general, not as a parent for an elite-to-be child. First of all, I'm not planning to have another child

, second of all even if I decided to have another one, to have one remotely close to the talent of Yu-na or Lang Lang would be next to zero

. I know that. I was just trying to say that too lay-back might not be the best way for the sake of the children themselves. I'm quite happy for my daughter. She got accepted by all the top universities she applied. She's very independent and as a result I'm not too worried that she's going to be away from me soon. That being said I felt that she had the potential to be better, and I regretted I did not push her when she was younger. I heard from other parents too that their children "blamed" them not pushing them when they were young. My daughter did not blame me. I asked her if I had pushed her to learn more stuff when she was a kid, how she would feel. She said that she would have learned more and it would be nice. To me successful parenting is to help your children to be the best they can be.

One thing I would like to add is that I'm totally against the idea of fullfilling yourself through your children. To me, I just want to help my daughter to be the best she wants to be, she is not me and will never be me. No matter how well or bad she does, it is her business, not a reflection of me. I will never push my child for myself. That IS selfish. I would never ask my child to kill herself or get lost if she didn't do as well as I expected.

shallwedansu · Jun 11, 2009

janetfan said:
And while we are at it - give me a break OK.

I would if I didn't disagree with you so often.

The article was terribly written. This was posted at Yunaforum from someone who has actually read the book and gives a better picture and a better understanding of Yu-Na's family dynamics:

Just a few additional informations.
- When Yuna started her career as a skater, they both agreed on that Ms.Park takes care of Yuna, while Mr.Kim takes care of the other daughter Aera.
- Yuna's mother stayed the whole time with Aera in Korea during the school's summer vacation, while Yuna was in Canada for summer training every year.
- They had a hard time during Yuna's 'period of storm and stress around 12.

"Six days a week, Ms. Park drove her daughter to skating lessons, monitoring her training and recording her mistakes."

Click to expand...

Yuna's training place was too far away from her house, so Ms.Park had to drive Yuna to the rink for hours and wait until her lessons finishes without doing anything since there was no alternative. That lasted for many years until Yuna moved to Canada.

"She forgot her husband’s birthdays and skipped her other daughter’s graduation because it conflicted with a skating match."

Click to expand...

Competitive FS event was held in the other region far from their house, so she and Yuna had to stay there for a few days and she found out the schedule was doubled, The book says that she felt terribly sorry for not making her her daughter Aera's elementary school graduation and sending Aera's aunt and uncles instead.

"In her memoir, Ms. Park said she regretted neglecting her husband and other daughter. She acknowledged that she suppressed her other daughter’s desire to become a professional singer, partly because she wanted to focus the family’s financial resources on Ms. Kim."

Click to expand...

It was when Aera was in high school thinking about her course of life, she told her mother that she wants to major in Practical musics and become a professional singer. Ms.Park disagreed since she knew how hard it is to survive in the entertainment world, and partly she couldn't afford the expensive lesson fee for vocal training. etc.
In that summer, Ms.Park was staying with Aera in Korea and went to Karaoke, there she was astonished to find Aera's extraordinary talent for music. Ms.Park looked for the way to be a singer and get a positive answer for attending the audition from the agency. However, Aera said she made up her mind to study nursing, and went to the Nursing University and now a nurse.

I'm so deeply grateful for Aera when she says "As we have one athlete now(who has the risk of injury), isn't it good to have one nurse?"
(......)
Yuna has a special place in her heart for Aera. We always miss Aera when we are in Canada,
"we are responsible for her, aren't we?" Yuna smiles. I nod my head. Because it's like an unchanging promise in our hearts." (quote from Ms.Park's book.)

Click to expand...

cosmos · Jun 11, 2009

pippa said:
After reading that article, I don't know whether I feel more sorry for YuNa or for her sister. One is pressured constantly to succeed for her mother's honor, and the other is told her goals are unimportant and only her sister matters. Really sad.

No Korean would think she was pressured for her mom's honor. We Koreans think that it was her mom's love and dedication. No doubt about that.

cosmos · Jun 11, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
yu-na 's parents seem so very out of the picture (i think she is living in Toronto alone) and she usually seems happy has a lively personality, so I did not a stage mom of that extreme. It is amazing that yu-na still seems to enjoy the sport as she does...but i think most teenagers would enjoy being a nationally praised celebrity no matter what the career.

Obviously, yu-na's mom's work paid off...but i wonder if that made her Dad and sister feel any better? I feel sorry for them.

In the Korean standard, she is not extreme. Just a typical Korean mom.

YuNa is living with her mom in Toronto.

feraina · Jun 11, 2009

One of my Russian friends has a son who is going to start college in the fall. I mentioned in the passing that he will now need to be a big boy and take care of himself now. She said, oh, no, I'm going to make him email me everyday with a plan for what he will do during the day! I should have known she would've never relinquished control easily, she not only checked all his homework, but edited and re-edited all his college application essays (and maybe even wrote the original drafts, who knows), and basically put together all his applications.

So, no, I don't think obsessive moms are unique to figure skating or to elite sports, or to any nationality. They manifest themselves in diverse ways.

However, I do think there's something about Korean moms.

One of my friends was the first Korean student to be admitted into MIT for university, and his mom wrote a national best-selling book about how she raised him with this goal in mind (including a picture showing my friend wearing an MIT sweatshirt when he was visiting MIT with his parents at age 5), and how much she sacrificed all along, etc. I've met his mother, from the way she describes it, she really sacrificing her entire life for her son's education (she basically implied that she married an American citizen so that her son could apply as a domestic applicant with higher chance of success; she has since divorced and remarried). This all happened 10 years ago, and my friend and his mom are still periodically interviewed by Korean newspapers and TV programs.

cosmos · Jun 11, 2009

feraina said:
One of my Russian friends has a son who is going to start college in the fall. I mentioned in the passing that he will now need to be a big boy and take care of himself now. She said, oh, no, I'm going to make him email me everyday with a plan for what he will do during the day! I should have known she would've never relinquished control easily, she not only checked all his homework, but edited and re-edited all his college application essays (and maybe even wrote the original drafts, who knows), and basically put together all his applications.

So, no, I don't think obsessive moms are unique to figure skating or to elite sports, or to any nationality. They manifest themselves in diverse ways.

However, I do think there's something about Korean moms.

One of my friends was the first Korean student to be admitted into MIT for university, and his mom wrote a national best-selling book about how she raised him with this goal in mind (including a picture showing my friend wearing an MIT sweatshirt when he was visiting MIT with his parents at age 5), and how much she sacrificed all along, etc. I've met his mother, from the way she describes it, she really sacrificing her entire life for her son's education (she basically implied that she married an American citizen so that her son could apply as a domestic applicant with higher chance of success; she has since divorced and remarried). This all happened 10 years ago, and my friend and his mom are still periodically interviewed by Korean newspapers and TV programs.

It is weird. Even in 20 years ago, there were many Koreans, Korean-Americans in MIT. I don't understand how he could be the first Korean student in MIT. And I don't remember that kind of best seller. I think the story was a bit exaggerated (not by you, of course). But, it is true that Korean moms really sacrifice for their children.

janetfan · Jun 11, 2009

shallwedansu;3999 The article was terribly written. This was posted at [url=http://yunaforum.com/index.php?showtopic=791 said:
Yunaforum[/url] from someone who has actually read the book and gives a better picture and a better understanding of Yu-Na's family dynamics:

There is nothing wrong with the writing at the New York Times. There is nothing wrong with the article. Some of Yuna's fans can't stand to hear anything that might be perceived as being negative towards their favorite skater. Or her mother

So we are told to disregard an article from a major, award winning newspaper and instead read posts from the Yuna fan forum.
Thanks, but no thanks. :biggrin:

cosmos · Jun 11, 2009

janetfan said:
There is nothing wrong with the writing at the New York Times. There is nothing wrong with the article. Some of Yuna's fans can't stand to hear anything that might be perceived as being negative towards their favorite skater. Or her mother
So we are told to disregard an article from a major, award winning newspaper and instead read posts from the Yuna fan forum.
Thanks, but no thanks.

I think the article is based on facts. However, besides the article being incomplete, its point of view is clearly American. Nothing wrong with that, because it is American news paper. Anyway, it lacks inner point of view. YuNa's fans are trying to deliver it and a few missing facts.

Well, it is YuNa Forum, not Yuna fan Forum. I am sure you ever visited it. Do you think it deserves to be called Yuna fan Forum?

poloska · Jun 11, 2009

seniorita said:
well she was too young back then, but it is sad to hear she hated skating, it must have been frustrating for her to train and hope especially coming from non traditional skating country.

Irina also hated skating at first

So it's ok.

janetfan · Jun 11, 2009

cosmos said:
I think the article is based on facts. However, besides the article being incomplete, its point of view is clearly American. Nothing wrong with that, because it is American news paper. Anyway, it lacks inner point of view. YuNa's fans are trying to deliver it and a few missing facts.

Well, it is YuNa Forum, not Yuna fan Forum. I am sure you ever visited it. Do you think it deserves to be called Yuna fan Forum?[/QUOTE

My initial post on this topic pointed out the article was only an excerpt and that there could be many happy episodes told in the book. I also mentioned there are cultural differences to consider. The strangest thing is that this is nothing new to American skating fans or families that have raised a talented musician, athlete, etc. We know this story all to well. It seems (to more than just me here) that Yuna's mother has taken the "skating mom" to a new level. Maybe there was no other way for a Korean family to handle this due to training circumstances in Korea. It is not like I am without sympathy for Yuna (she surely had a very unhappy childhood) and remember Orser and Wilson commenting they had never seen a young girl who would never smile when they first started to work with Yuna.
Whether I approve of what is described as the "obsessive" behavior of Yuna's mother should not be an issue. It seems for some the issue has to be that we must love Yuna, and now members of her family - or be told we are wrong. Maybe I am WRONG - but I am just expressing my opinion.
Whatever, thanks for your comments, I respect their civilty. It seems fair to say I am sorry about the "Yuna fan" forum remark. I am sure it is a good place to learn eveything about Yuna.

cosmos · Jun 11, 2009

janetfan said:
My initial post on this topic pointed out the article was only an excerpt and that there could be many happy episodes told in the book. I also mentioned there are cultural differences to consider. The strangest thing is that this is nothing new to American skating fans or families that have raised a talented musician, athlete, etc. We know this story all to well. It seems (to more than just me here) that Yuna's mother has taken the "skating mom" to a new level. Maybe there was no other way for a Korean family to handle this due to training circumstances in Korea. It is not like I am without sympathy for Yuna (she surely had a very unhappy childhood) and remember Orser and Wilson commenting they had never seen a young girl who would never smile when they first started to work with Yuna.
Whether I approve of what is described as the "obsessive" behavior of Yuna's mother should not be an issue. It seems for some the issue has to be that we must love Yuna, and now members of her family - or be told we are wrong. Maybe I am WRONG - but I am just expressing my opinion.

I understand your point.

I am not trying to persuade you to love her mom. But, I want to explain what Korean Moms are like. Frankly, I have mixed feelings for Korean moms. Often, I hate them, their excessive dedication and excessive sacrifice for their kids. (I am a man). I believe they make Korea harder to live in. I don't know it is culture or gene that make Korean mom. They are determined to make their kids an elite. They drive kids to a series of homeworks and private lessons.

You think YuNa was unhappy in childhood. But, I am not so sure. She just didn't laugh a lot. (probably not at her home). That was YuNa we knew years ago. She changed a lot in the last few years. At least, I am sure that skating practice didn't make her unhappier than other kids, because they also had hard (or harder) time doing some kind of study, homework, private lessons while she was skating.

I don't think it is a good education and even effective. Actually, I hate it. Ms. Park is just one of few successful moms who raised her kid to world level. I suspect she has something. I think the reason is not that she is more extreme than others but that she is smarter and wiser although she also drove YuNa to hard practice. Look at YuNa. YuNa is not only a great skater but also a calm, thoughtful, and reasonable young lady behaving properly. She also has sense of humor. An obsessive and extreme mom can not raise such a daughter.

Medusa · Jun 11, 2009

cosmos said:
YuNa is not only a great skater but also a calm, thoughtful, and reasonable young lady behaving properly. She also has sense of humor. An obsessive and extreme mom can not raise such a daughter.

Don't you think you give too much credit to her mum, or to parents in general? What's with all the children who grew up in orphanages, half a dozen foster homes or with negligent parents? Not all those kids turn out to be screw-ups. It's not all about the parents. So maybe Kim (and Lang) aren't "good" and "successful" people because of their parents, but despite their parents?

shallwedansu · Jun 11, 2009

janetfan said:
There is nothing wrong with the writing at the New York Times. There is nothing wrong with the article.

There is something wrong because it's biased and presents the wrong picture of Yu-Na's family.

Some of Yuna's fans can't stand to hear anything that might be perceived as being negative towards their favorite skater. Or her mother

It's not about a NEGATIVE image, but getting the WRONG image. And this article illustrates a WRONG image.

The article makes it seem like her mom only cared about Yu-Na and completely ignored her sister. It's wrong. Someone who has read the book gave the other side of the picture, which the article completely ignores. In the NYT article, it said Yu-Na's mom discouraged her sister's wish to become a singer and left it at that. The article didn't go on further to explain what happened afterwards: Yu-Na's mom discouraged Yu-Na's sister at first not only because of financial reasons, but because it's hard to survive in the entertainment world. However, when she heard her daughter sing and recognized talent, she did her best to help her daughter achieve her goal by landering her an audition for an agency. But Yu-Na's sister had changed her mind already and was set on going to nursing school, which she did and now she's a happily a nurse.

This is only one example of the writer presenting only certain facts to push his/her own biased view of Yu-Na's mom. Once you see the entire picture, it's really not as bad as the writer makes it out to be and we would probably all understand the situation Yu-Na's mom was in and why she made the choices she did.

So we are told to disregard an article from a major, award winning newspaper and instead read posts from the Yuna fan forum.
Thanks, but no thanks.

Are you serious? You really believe everything the newspaper tells you just because it wins awards? Do you not realize journalists from major newspapers can be biased and not everything they write is factual?

janetfan said:
It seems fair to say I am sorry about the "Yuna fan" forum remark. I am sure it is a good place to learn eveything about Yuna.

Yuna fan forum? It's the same forum you go to, mujamba. You know, the place where every couple of weeks you start a fight over nothing and no one understands where you're coming from. Then you cowardly disappear for a couple days without replying back to any of our questions. And you keep coming back and start up the same pattern every couple of weeks.

Since you visit that forum so often, are you calling yourself a Yuna fan? What you need to understand is the difference between a bot and a fan. There aren't any bots at Yunaforum because they're banned. What that forum does have is fans of Yuna and contrary to your misconception, they're not even all Korean. Many of the fans who are vocal on that forum are not Korean nor live in Korea. And they're not bots, they're fans.

gocaroline · Jun 11, 2009

Is the book by Yuna's mom also published in English? I just watched a documentary series about Yuna's development on youtube. I have to say I really admire Yuna's mom, for her dedication and perseverance, in one scene she said : " I don't want me to be the obstacle (or in the way) for Yuna to fulfill her talent". It may not be the exact wording, but it's her meaning that she doesn't want to waste her daughter's talent because of lack of support from her. For me that's mother's love.

Different families will make different choices depend on the family resource and philosopy on raising a child. I do think now that it's very hard for anyone to succeed in skating, tennis, swimming, or golf, etc. It really takes a whole lot if not a village to raise a champion. That's why not everyone can be a champion.

cosmos · Jun 11, 2009

Medusa said:
Don't you think you give too much credit to her mum, or to parents in general? What's with all the children who grew up in orphanages, half a dozen foster homes or with negligent parents? Not all those kids turn out to be screw-ups. It's not all about the parents. So maybe Kim (and Lang) aren't "good" and "successful" people because of their parents, but despite their parents?

Orphanages would be better than obsessive mom. Don't you think so?

janetfan · Jun 11, 2009

shallwedansu said:
There is something wrong because it's biased and presents the wrong picture of Yu-Na's family.

It's not about a NEGATIVE image, but getting the WRONG image. And this article illustrates a WRONG image.

Isn't this subjective to some extent? From the Korean reporter who wrote the article - to the reactions of various people who have read it.

You state clearly what is right and what is wrong. But that is only your opinion and it is subjective and open for debate. Some may tend to view this article differently than you do. I don't know how you or anyone else can be so sure about this topic. I never claimed to be right and stated several times I was offering thoughts and opinions. I even said I might be wrong.
You on the other hand seem to be trying to force people into believing only your opinion is right and any other thoughts are wrong.
I think you make some very good points but I don't believe everything you say about this is necessarily true. And even if what you say is true, other people do have a right to their own feelings about what they read.
Accepting your thoughts as the only possible interpretation of the article feels very "bottish" to me.

janetfan · Jun 11, 2009

cosmos said:
Orphanages would be better than obsessive mom. Don't you think so?

That is not even close to what she said. I suggest you read her thoughts again :yes:

Andalusia · Jun 11, 2009

janetfan said:
Isn't this subjective to some extent? From the Korean reporter who wrote the article - to the reactions of various people who have read it.

You state clearly what is right and what is wrong. But that is only your opinion and it is subjective and open for debate. Some may tend to view this article differently than you do. I don't know how you or anyone else can be so sure about this topic. I never claimed to be right and stated several times I was offering thoughts and opinions. I even said I might be wrong.
You on the other hand seem to be trying to force people into believing only your opinion is right and any other thoughts are wrong.
I think you make some very good points but I don't believe everything you say about this is necessarily true. And even if what you say is true, other people do have a right to their own feelings about what they read.
Accepting your thoughts as the only possible interpretation of the article feels very "bottish" to me.

new article about Yuna and her mom

Medusa

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

hongligl

shallwedansu

cosmos

cosmos

feraina

cosmos

janetfan

Match Penalty

cosmos

poloska

janetfan

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cosmos

Medusa

shallwedansu

gocaroline

cosmos

janetfan

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janetfan

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Andalusia

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