Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season | Page 69 | Golden Skate

Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

That hug is heartbreaking...and sweet.

^^I was thinking the same! Both Ladies must have been disappointed but Mirai obviously wanted to comfort Caroline! It must be a difficult friendship, both being under such pressure.

I thought it was very telling of their relationship. Off topic here but It reminded
me of Michelle and Irina in SLC 2002,they were rivals for years but there they were backstage hugging, crying and comforting each other after a bitter disappointment for them both. I will never forget that.
 
I thought it was very telling of their relationship. Off topic here but It reminded
me of Michelle and Irina in SLC 2002,they were rivals for years but there they were backstage hugging, crying and comforting each other after a bitter disappointment for them both. I will never forget that.

Thanks for the clip and your thoughful remarks here.

I believe that Caroline and Mirai have been competing against each other since they were seven. They are sixteen now and may soon eclipse the length of Michelle and Irina's great rivalry.
Maybe they already have?

Let's hope these girls start winning some senior titles or this rivalry will only be remembered as a friendship. Nothing wrong with that - just hoping for more.
.
 
? What team was Caroline skating for?

A valid point. I was talking about the World Championship team, but maybe I had better not kick-start that discussion.

Yes, I thought that hug was touching. It kind of reminds me of a line from Shakespear ........

"And do as adversaries do in law,
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends."

I wonder if Caroline was interviewed.
 
A valid point. I was talking about the World Championship team, but maybe I had better not kick-start that discussion.

Yes, I thought that hug was touching. It kind of reminds me of a line from Shakespear ........

"And do as adversaries do in law,
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends."

I wonder if Caroline was interviewed.

Probably not. She is not even mentioned in the SC article that is up
on IN.
 
I think Caroline needs an intervention....an Alina Cojocaru intervention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIk671EmSA

(at 6:05)

Alina Cojocaru's Snow pas de deux from Act I. Royal Ballet (UK). The Nutcracker is popular and what comes to mind for most people is their local ballet's Christmas performance. But its so hard to do well, to emotionally captivate the audience. I wish Caroline would channel that....no one (not Cohen, not S/Z) has done it yet to the fullest potential on ice as Cojocaru has done. I feel like Caroline skates to music prettily...but its not necessarily pretty music. Even with her technique, she shouldn't just sacrifice interpretation, choreography and emotion.
 
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Why would she be? Her skate is not going to be shown so it would be pointless to do the interview.

Well, turns out that they actually DID show Zhang (and Suzuki as well) in exchange for skipping over the two Canadians. :laugh:

so who knows, she might have been interviewed after all. In fact, one is probably warranted based on that performance

ETA: No interview (they did one with Czisny and Rochette though)
 
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And on other boards, too. You detest Caroline and her skating, don't wander into this thread.

Also, it is fairly idiotic to say that Caroline doesn't even have the remotest chance of going to Sochi based on 2 bad GP events. Not this far away from 2014.

Actually, I have lots of positive things to say about Caroline's last season and her accomplishments in general. I am just aware that she will not dominate the U.S. skating scene unless she retrains her technique.
 
I don't understand why, if she's having such big technical difficulties, she doesn't at least perform her routines up the wazoo and grab those interpretation points.

Her challenges really seem to be getting her down (based on the comments of hers that have been reported). I too would like to see an intervention, but more of a mental health or attitudinal one.

It's hard to believe this is the best she can achieve. She wasn't just a very good junior skater, she was in a class by herself. Well... until Mirai showed up.
 
I think it's clear that 2010 won't be Zhang's year (barring an unprecedented turn of events)

But it's WAY too early to be counting her out for 2014. If she can just go back to the drawing board, there might be hope for her. Otherwise, she's just going to be fighting her way down...
 
I hope Caroline gives an interview in the next couple of months so we can hear her side the story. I hate all this guessing.
 
I hope Caroline gives an interview in the next couple of months so we can hear her side the story. I hate all this guessing.

But what guessing IS there to do? She's just been off lately...and with her technique it was obvious she'd sink in the standings. She's all but taken herself out of contention. Maybe next time.
 
But what guessing IS there to do? She's just been off lately...and with her technique it was obvious she'd sink in the standings. She's all but taken herself out of contention. Maybe next time.

I think her performances speak for themselves.
I do not like her LP at all and found it boring. She can occassionaly hit some lovely positions but her skating has no spark at all. She has no expression and that coupled with her technical limitations is not going to get her anywhere on the senior circuit.

I almost felt bad for Scott today trying to come up with nice things to say about her program. He did say if she fixes some of her problems she could become a factor again.

I don't know if I blame Lori and think Caroline's lack of progress has become apparent. She is still more or less a junior skater and has had the exact same weaknesses since she was fouteen.

Maybe she is very stubborn and it will take a full season of failures for her to realize she has to make major changes in her training - or settle for being a "B" skater with a few nice spins.

Watching the end of her LP and her reaction made me sad. But maybe this is something Caroline has to go through before she will try a new approach to her skating.

I doubt if she will be a factor at Natls or at 4CC if she is chosen to go there.

Rather than ending with "Go Caroline" I will say,

"Go slow Caroline. Make some changes and address your problems."
 
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I've never been a Caroline fan myself, but she does have some positive points that may be worth salvaging. For whatever reason, she is going backwards not improving, and her serious jump flaws may be uncorrectible at this point. I'm not willing to throw her under the bus completely, but in order to ever be competitive in the top levels of skating, she'll need to:

1) Skate at US Nationals and then voluntarily retire from competition for the rest of the season, with the possible exception of 4CC if she skates acceptably enough for USFS to send her. I think her chances of being selected for Olympic or World team in 2010 are slim and none, and slim's out of town. No matter how she skates at US Nationals.

2) Take the entire competitive 2010-2011 season off, and work primarily on technical such as power, speed and of course relearn jumping technique. Her technique problems are so serious that at best it will be difficult to make the fixes needed and I think will take the better part of 2 years and that's if all the planets align and she has a strong technical coach and LISTENS TO THE COACH. There's no way she'll be able to do the necessary fixes if she has to concentrate on practicing programs and then competing at international majors. It ain't gonna work. She would also benefit from a lot of off-ice general and core strength training.

3) Get rid of Mingzhu Li and get a strong technical coach that practices tough-love like Frank is doing with Mirai. For whatever reasons, it's not just Li's coaching skills on question here, but the Caroline-family-coach dynamic that I suspect isn't helping Caroline's progress. These technique issues had to have surfaced back when Caroline was doing doubles, or learning triples, probably by intermediate/novice level. Why the coach didn't put her foot down and insist Caroline fix them is a mystery to me, as Li certainly was able to get the message of decent jump technique across to Lu Chen years ago with great results.

4) None of this will happen unless Caroline herself is willing to bite the bullet and do what it takes to get up there with the best of ladies skaters. With a goal of making her mark in the 2012-2014 period. And she will have to have family support (or at least noninterference) and probably USFS support. She may need to move away from southern Cal, which is feasible for a 16-17 year old.

Unfortunately, the glimpses I see of Caroline's attitude and personality do not make me optimistic she can/will do this. But if she doesn't change course drastically over the next few months, she will likely go down the path of Canada's Mira Leung. This would be a sad waste of talent.


Completely agreed!::thumbsup: I've been thinking exactly the same thing ever since last season. Her technique (except spins and spirals (even spirals lack in speed though)) looked pathetic even to my naive eyes. But I couldn't dare to utter it here (although I actually did briefly) like you did, due to my English not good enough to explain it properly and also due to all the hopes and gushes over her here in this forum. See how many pages CZ's thread has!

I think this break (semi-retirement) for retraining should have been taken earlier. I really hope it's not too late now!
 
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It appears Zhang has more fans than the other US ladies? How can she have a 69-page thread and the other ladies' threads barely even add up to 10. :rofl:
 
But again, Caroline has a long-rumming thread because people are interested in her. Where are the other ladies' long-running threads?
 
I think Caroline needs an intervention....an Alina Cojocaru intervention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIk671EmSA

(at 6:05)

Alina Cojocaru's Snow pas de deux from Act I. Royal Ballet (UK). The Nutcracker is popular and what comes to mind for most people is their local ballet's Christmas performance. But its so hard to do well, to emotionally captivate the audience. I wish Caroline would channel that....no one (not Cohen, not S/Z) has done it yet to the fullest potential on ice as Cojocaru has done. I feel like Caroline skates to music prettily...but its not necessarily pretty music. Even with her technique, she shouldn't just sacrifice interpretation, choreography and emotion.
She did a Black Swan Pas de Deux in NYC at a benefit and stole the show. I wish she would come back for a season with ABT.

Caroline and all skaters are not trained to act. I believe their coaches show them the proper expressions. With a story behind their music, they should take in a professional show to see how it is done. Ballet dancers have plenty of time watching their stars and at first, mimic and then find their own interpretation. Skaters do not have this. JMO.
 
Very sad for Caroline... :cry:

I really don't think she should have gone back to Mingzhu Li. Even sticking with Charlene Wong would have been better. If she is serious about a skating career, she should really double down and work hard on her skating skills and jump technique, and also general off-ice core strengthening. She simply doesn't haven't the core strength or power to skate at the elite level. She doesn't have a sense of "ease" in her skating, and without she also can't achieve a sense of "grace." When she was younger, she skated with ease and grace, slower, yes, but it looked easier. In recent years, she looks like she's trying so hard to skate faster, and she's just muscling through everything, even the cross-overs, both the ease and grace are gone.

Mirai and Ashley are all natural athletes in that sense; they can speed skate across from one end of the rink to another effortlessly, it comes naturally to them. Caroline doesn't have that kind of build; she needs to work many times harder in the gym to achieve the same result, and it doesn't look like she's been doing it in the right way so far. She needs someone to help with it in a very organized way, like Brian Orser has done for Yu-na, who also wasn't particularly fast or strong (though had better jump technique) when she went to Brian. Maybe if Yu-na wins OGM and retires, Caroline can go to Brian? That would be amazing for her -- I'm just not sure that Brian would take her, even if she chooses to move all the way over to Canada.

I don't know, I am really not very optimistic for Caroline's future. She needs a better coach who can both help her with the technical side, and the mental side. She seems to be totally lost on her own, and Li is just no help.
 
From what I gather in other threads, I suspect she has very little say in the whole coaching and relocating issue. Part of me wants her to come back strong, and part of me wants this season to go way down so some changes will be made. :unsure:
And oh, please don't get injured...
 
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