Grand Prix Final: Mens LP

prettykeys · Dec 5, 2009

I'm just gonna interject with my useless thoughts

that I'm happy about the placements and performances by the top 3 men, and Jeremy's lovely LP.

Evan is not my cup of tea even when he skates well...but he skated well so good job on a Gold well-earned.

seniorita · Dec 5, 2009

janetfan said:
Evan is just doing what Plushy did back in '06. He is milking the CoP system for all it is worth accentuating his strengths and successfully keeping his weaknesses below the surface.

I agree with that. But Evan is not doing what Plush does, from any possible angle, sorry.

One slight problem when marks of Lysacek came out was that Takahashi had not skated yet and he leaded only by 0.10 in sp. When scores are so tight it becomes more of an issue rather than the inflated marks that most skaters receive one day or another. Imagine if Takahashi had popped only an axel and didnt do a quad, everything else fine. He maybe have won, he maybe had also inflated marks, but he could have lost also to a narrow margin, and this time marks would have been be critical, who knows of course and I m talking fairy tales now.
I have no prob with Lysacek winning, neither about his pcs which seem to be subjective is some part. I thought Tes was more objective though and I dont get the +Goe in some jumps he got.
Anyway, in Olympics I will do zen exercises and eat lots of lemons.

janetfan · Dec 5, 2009

seniorita said:
I agree with that. But Evan is not doing what Plush does, from any possible angle, sorry.
One slight problem when marks of Lysacek came out was that Takahashi had not skated yet and he leaded only by 0.10 in sp. When scores are so tight it becomes more of an issue rather than the inflated marks that most skaters receive one day or another. Imagine if Takahashi had popped only an axel and didnt do a quad, everything else fine. He maybe have won, he maybe had also inflated marks, but he could have lost also to a narrow margin, and this time marks would have been be critical, who knows of course and I m talking fairy tales now.
I have no prob with Lysacek winning, neither about his pcs which seem to be subjective is some part. I thought Tes was more objective though and I dont get the +Goe in some jumps he got.
Anyway, in Olympics I will do zen exercises and eat lots of lemons.

You are complaining about a 6.0 scenario.
Speedy promised that the skater's order would no longer matter under CoP.
Am I missing something here? Are you admitting another flaw in CoP?

Is my argument about CoP finaly accepted only because Evan won today

Hello - earth to fans - Evan also won the WC and finished first at WTT. Don't act like he never won before :yes:

Evan is different than Plushy. He can perform difficult spins and his steps are getting good marks. He also doesn't take breaks and finishes stronger than he starts. Plushy was too tired to finish his LP at COR, his spins and steps were mediocre - but his jumps were the best. Except for the mistake on the lutz.

I thought Evan won and will leave this argument about his scores to others.

seniorita · Dec 5, 2009

I didnt say the order of skating but the little difference in marks takahashi and evan had from the sp, so their marks in Lp would be critical for the medals.
As I didnt say Evan didnt deserve his win.

You can compare Lysacek to Plushenko as much as you want, but I wont play the game, I m sorry but I just cant :laugh:

Jaana · Dec 5, 2009

seniorita said:
One slight problem when marks of Lysacek came out was that Takahashi had not skated yet and he leaded only by 0.10 in sp. When scores are so tight it becomes more of an issue rather than the inflated marks that most skaters receive one day or another.

In my opinion, in CoP system a skater gets the marks he deserves, those marks must not depend on, who is going to skate after him. In 6,0 system there was that fault sometimes, the early skaters suffered, but not always. I remember that in 1996 WC sp Ilia Kulik was second to skate and he won sp.

Besides, I have do doubts that if Takahashi had skated his freeskate with all jumps and had succeeded in spins, his marks would have been very high, too.

wonderlen3000 · Dec 5, 2009

Good for Oda thou. Silver is very good, he had at least one so-so FS to get out of his system. Right now he is on a roll and just needs to carry his momentum for 3 more months.

Too bad about Takahashi. I'm not surprise, b/c he never do well under pressure in major international events. Hope he come back strong for the Olympics. I think he should ditch the 4T and just skate for a clean 8 triples program. with his PCS, mark a clean 8 triples program should get him over 160+ for sure and he has that killer SP to keep cushion.

wonderlen3000 · Dec 5, 2009

BTW, does anybody know why two of his non jump elemets are not given credited???

ae9177 · Dec 5, 2009

Congratulations to all the medalists, especially Evan! :clap:

He won it fair and square. Action speaks louder than word, the best way to prove yourself is to let the skating speak for itself. :rock:

He's not only a great competitor, but also a smart skater, both of his programs are very CoP friendly, in addition, the choreo and emotion build up nicely with the music, wonderful choices for the Olympic season. :yes: I hope he'll keep the good momentum and peak at the Olympics.

Very happy for team USA and team Japan, both have very deep men's field and have good chance to make the podium in Vancouver.

Overall, this is a great competition, with many clean or almost clean programs and remarkable performances. All atheletes should all be proud of themselves. The only one made me sad is Tomas, what's going on with him? Is it physical or mental? He totally lost focus here. It's OK to fall and make mistake, but it's not OK to give up and stop fighting. He has so much talent but yet to skate to his potential. I really hope he could learn good lessons from this experience and get his mojo back in the next 2 months.

janetfan · Dec 5, 2009

seniorita said:
As I didnt say Evan didnt deserve his win.

You can compare Lysacek to Plushenko as much as you want, but I wont play the game, I m sorry but I just cant

You started by comparing Plushy to Evan. I think you had enough sodas already

And please tell Plush he is too pale and needs some tan to look like he is a alive :laugh:

merrybari · Dec 5, 2009

hikki said:
Sorry for the late reply. icenetwork live feed.

Thanks! I was afraid you were going to say that. My live feed cut off before the interview and I just finished watching the Men Free Skate on demand version and they didn't show it there. Do hope it shows up somewhere eventually!

Thanks again.

merrywidow · Dec 5, 2009

Congratulations to Evan! Well done!

inside edge · Dec 5, 2009

prettykeys said:
I'm just gonna interject with my useless thoughts that I'm happy about the placements and performances by the top 3 men, and Jeremy's lovely LP.

Evan is not my cup of tea even when he skates well...but he skated well so good job on a Gold well-earned.

I agree.
Poor Jeremy

Spun Silver · Dec 5, 2009

I haven't seen any of the skates yet but am I seeing straight? Johnny beat Evan on TES (77.25 to 75.60) but Evan trounced him on PCS (84 to 75.50)?

Also how does Evan with a popped Axel crush clean Oda or Jeremy with one fall on PCS?

Lemon sucking alert: I've been inclined to accept this scoring system until now but if the result is Evan as OGM I've had it. I salute his hard work, drive, and strength. I commend the coaching and programming strategies of Carroll and Nichol simply (and only) because they're working. But he is quite plainly the most unpleasant-looking elite skater I have ever seen. There is absolutely no beauty and no effort at beauty - just force and speed. His all-black costumes just accentuate his gangly form. Sorry to be so sour.

No one is ever going to change my mind about that but surely someone can explain what the heck is so superior about his skating skills and choreography?

I'm very sorry I wasn't able to get to SA because I thought maybe in person (as some have said) I might finally see something attractive in his skating.

TV time! Maybe this time I'll finally "get" him.

janetfan · Dec 5, 2009

LilyOfTheValley said:
They have to. Grand Prix Final is in the new selection criteria. Johnny's medal does matter.

It won't matter at all if Johnny skates poorly and Rippon or Mroz win a medal.

The placement at Natls is about 80% or more of the criteria.
It is a tradition that goes way back, and there is no reason to change it for a "luck of the draw" mini tournament like the GP series.

Johnny skated well at NHK and the GPF and he looks like a sure bet to make the team.
But he has to earn it by skating well at Natls.

luvsasha · Dec 5, 2009

My personal opinion is that the US should send the three men here, but I know they have to deliver at Nats.

Interjecting to also say that Jeremy was awesome today

demarinis5 · Dec 5, 2009

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091205&content_id=7761390&vkey=ice_news

Article from IN on the th Men's FS.

quote from Johnny

I defeated our National Champion (Abbott) here. Last year I was 5th at the Nationals and he was first, and I hope this competition gives me some legitimacy, because a lot of people after I made mistakes always write me off and I have to climb my way up

Sounds like Johnny is making a case for himself for the Olympic team.

KKonas · Dec 5, 2009

demarinis5 said:
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091205&content_id=7761390&vkey=ice_news

Article from IN on the th Men's FS.

quote from Johnny

I defeated our National Champion (Abbott) here. Last year I was 5th at the Nationals and he was first, and I hope this competition gives me some legitimacy, because a lot of people after I made mistakes always write me off and I have to climb my way up

Sounds like Johnny is making a case for himself for the Olympic team.

Bitter much? Trash talking (especially trying to show up a fellow countryman) is not going to put him on the Olympic Team, skating well is, so I'm glad to see Weir is taking his training a llittle more seriously this year than last year. USFS showed last year that it is not going to "gift" him to Vancouver.

janetfan · Dec 5, 2009

KKonas said:
Bitter much? Trash talking (especially trying to show up a fellow countryman) is not going to put him on the Olympic Team, skating well is, so I'm glad to see Weir is taking his training a llittle more seriously this year than last year. USFS showed last year that it is not going to "gift" him to Vancouver.

I agree - and also understand that "gifts" are earned and not given away to the undeserving.

I suspect Weir is aware that this is it for his career and he stands to lose alot of money if he doesn't make it to Vancouver.

I don't think his remarks about Jeremy were so bad and I am sure Johnny was pretty happy today about medaling.

camion · Dec 5, 2009

KKonas said:
Bitter much? Trash talking (especially trying to show up a fellow countryman) is not going to put him on the Olympic Team, skating well is, so I'm glad to see Weir is taking his training a llittle more seriously this year than last year. USFS showed last year that it is not going to "gift" him to Vancouver.

I wouldn't consider Johnny's comments as trash talking. On the snarky side, yes, but far from trash talking especially considering he's had his share of diva moments. I actually take it as a compliment to Jeremy whose had great success in last year's GP and Nationals. It's a testament to how strong a skater he has become for him to be used as a barometer that he's not out of the loop yet. And Johnny's comments are very true. He needs to have this "out to prove everyone one wrong" attitude because he is more of the classical skater than the one that goes out & takes advantage of the CoP.

shine · Dec 5, 2009

Jeremy ABbott WUZROBBED of the PCS!!! 6 points behind Lysacek???? Judges need to be real, for once.

Grand Prix Final: Mens LP

prettykeys

seniorita

janetfan

Match Penalty

seniorita

Jaana

wonderlen3000

wonderlen3000

ae9177

janetfan

Match Penalty

merrybari

merrywidow

inside edge

Spun Silver

janetfan

Match Penalty

luvsasha

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

KKonas

janetfan

Match Penalty

camion

shine

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