Ice Dance's OD - Sunday 21st 7:15pm EST

kiz_4Ever · Feb 22, 2010

virtue- moir were so amazing!!! I loved their OD!!!

and second (IMO) fede&massi!!! they won over D&S at euro, I didn't understand what happened yesterday...

also, please someone tell maxim that his costume...for the OD...is absolutely to change, couldn't he skate with normal pants?!?!

colleen o'neill · Feb 22, 2010

Well, Dom/Shab definitely toned the costume down. They were definitely less like gingerbread people this time ,and thank God Max lost the blackface. However, since they did also change the cut of the loincloths ( which I don't recall being a specific complaint ), would it have hurt them to shy away from red , which the Aborigines were opposed to on the grounds that it holds spiritual meaning for them ? It would have been a small concession for D/S , but might have meant a lot to the native people they offended.
Judging by their marks and the relative simplicity of the dance ( and I haven't looked at the marks in detail,yet), it doesn't seem like the judges imposed any penalty for the apparent nakedness of the costumes or for their music , suggesting that either the judges ignored the fact that the music was not aboriginal , or they didn't hold D/S to the same standard as the other couples whose dances had to reflect a known folk or country dance , not an imaginary one.

If they have these rules, but are not going to make deductions for flouting them, then maybe teams who work within the rules to great effect should receive a bonus ? See Faiella and Scali.

Anyway, thrilled for V/M and D/W. Don't think much of the draw for tonight. And costumes? K/N Firebird is coming...

< this little guy is not "unsure" ,it's "jaundiced eye"

Sk8n Mama · Feb 22, 2010

and thank God Max lost the blackface.

Wait. He used to do the OD w/ blackface? Okay, now I get why so much controversy. That's just not in any way appropriate.

taikwan · Feb 22, 2010

beabstress: Awesome post. No one can miss that difference now.

Dodhiyel · Feb 22, 2010

Speaking of cultural understanding, please have a look at my post on the costumes thread for an explanation of why the Firebird's costume has to be very, very bright. This comes from an old Russian fairy tale. The bird is supposed to glow; even a feather from it is supposed to glow.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?30679-Olympic-Costumes!/page5

sk8rdad · Feb 22, 2010

beabstress said:
Here's the difference: Domnina and Shabalin appear to be *making fun of* Aboriginal culture. The dance comes across as little more than a caricature, with the two of them portraying simple, buffoonish people who are not "civilized." Their research extended no further than the Internet. There is no excuse for not going deeper from the get-go. What I, personally, find most offensive is that little thought was invested in the whole production; it seems that the team thought they could skate by (pardon the pun) on the strength of their reputation and World title. It's glaringly obvious that there is little attention to detail, if any attention to detail at all.

Perhaps it is not spelled out in the rules, and perhaps I am the only one who feels this way, but I believe that a folk/country OD should highlight the beauty of a particular culture and honor what makes it unique and special. There needs to be a spirit of reverence there, even if the dance itself is "fun"; there is no excuse for trivialization of ANY culture, particularly a culture that has fought to overcome a history of diminishment.

ITA and would add that many of the other teams went out and consulted with people who know the dances in particular several have been noted as having worked with choreographers who know the dance genre they were portraying. The phrase that kept popping into my mind last night was "So easy a cave man can do it".... really the dance was more Flintstones than aboriginal.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 22, 2010

let`s talk said:
What is all this noise about DomShab`s aboriginal dance? Why if your dance a Spanish, Indian, Rusisan, etc. folk dance, it is not offensive, but if you dance an aboriginal folk dance, it is offensive? I do not understand.

It's a matter of making a comedy of it and not a serious take. The dance looked like two birds going thru a ritual mating dance, and not what humans would do in a dance. Has there ever been a human pulling the hair of another human in dance? Has Linnichuck really studied this tribe culturally?

Hikaru · Feb 22, 2010

I loved D/W, I am in love with their OD and I think yesterday they skated it better than they have all season long. I missed V/M, but from the general comment, I hear they were amazing. WIth the almost 3 point lead I don't think it will be enough for D/W to win unfortunately. They lost the FD to the canadians at the GP final. But... if D/W won, how would people take it? I mean if both teams skated perfectly, and D/W won, do you guys think people would say it wasn't fair? I guess V/M FD looks more "Olympic" than D/W PotO Free Dance (although it is a very good program with lots of difficulty). I wish they had done Samson and Delilah this season.

kiz_4Ever · Feb 22, 2010

Sk8n Mama said:
Wait. He used to do the OD w/ blackface? Okay, now I get why so much controversy. That's just not in any way appropriate.

Euro's OD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vczTPSwF9do
and photo : http://www.examiner.com/a-2433188~Domnina_Shabalin_lead_after_original_dance.html

csparkles · Feb 22, 2010

You've got the picture!

oxade21 · Feb 22, 2010

The Dom/Shabs smear campaign still continues? It's never enough for haters.

csparkles · Feb 22, 2010

Diva said:
Somehow I think that B&A, K&N and C&P are some kind of sacrificial lambs :think:

You've got the picture!

Justafan · Feb 22, 2010

Hsuhs said:
It's always a pleasure to get a lesson in culture from an American tourist.

Excuse me? I may be an "American Tourist" however I have a friend who actually is of Moldavian descent and who performs as part of a Moldavian folk dance troupe so it's not like I have never heard Moldavian music. At any rate it was my personal opinon as a viewer that the particular piece of music they used failed to bring the audience in. I am certainly not knocking the culture so I don't know why you tossed that label out there.

formersk8ter · Feb 22, 2010

jcoates said:
The same reason the SP exists...television. There was such an outcry after the 72 games when most viewers did not see the compulsories, that the ISU added the SP for singles, which already existed in a raw form for pairs. The OSP (later the OD) was added for ice dance for similar reasons. Breaks up the monotony of hearing the same music and seeing the same moves or steps and adds one more interesting program to watch. Of course there were far less winter sports on the program back then, so they needed to fill the space some way.

Well, television has shown compulsory dance for several Oly seasons now.

I still don't really get the point of the original dance. I watched it last night with some non-skating friends, and they made fun of it the whole time. I'm sure others were doing the same. Not so sure it's so great for the sport...

Spun Silver · Feb 22, 2010

formersk8ter said:
Well, television has shown compulsory dance for several Oly seasons now.

I still don't really get the point of the original dance. I watched it last night with some non-skating friends, and they made fun of it the whole time. I'm sure others were doing the same. Not so sure it's so great for the sport...

I can see where it might be kind of a specialized taste.

But I'm kind of used to that as an opera buff and skating fan.

DesertRoad · Feb 22, 2010

formersk8ter said:
I still don't really get the point of the original dance. I watched it last night with some non-skating friends, and they made fun of it the whole time. I'm sure others were doing the same. Not so sure it's so great for the sport...

If your friends still can't appreciate the beauty, difficulty and athleticism in ice dancing after V/M and D/W's skates, then they are ignorant, blind and dead inside. Get new friends.

Justafan · Feb 22, 2010

oxade21 said:
The Dom/Shabs smear campaign still continues? It's never enough for haters.

I don't think it's hating if you don't particularly care for someone's choice of programs. I think they are fantastic ice dancers...I just think their current OD is cringe worthy.

tralfamadorian · Feb 22, 2010

Sk8n Mama said:
Actually, CTV was discussing the ODs this morning and said that D/S met with the first nations (I think they meant the Canadian 4 first nations) and got their blessing on the OD so they were trying to make sure it was in good taste. It just wasn't a good idea on their part. Once they knew it was too controversial, they should have gone with something else. I think we all thought they were doing something different? But, I wonder if, they didn't really realize until Euros and by then, it was too late for a whole new OD. I dunno.

That's pretty much what happened, as far as I remember the "war" broke out on the eve of the OD at Euros, I don't think D/S had time for anything else but minor changes between then and Olys.

I think it was very clear from the start though that they did not mean to mock or make fun of anyone intentionally, and this was clear to the aboriginal leaders as well. Last I heard any quotes from those leaders they seemed to be more forgiving, they invited D/S to visit Australia and get to know their culture and Bev Manton (one of the leaders) also reacted positively about the costume change.

I very much hope they were able to make amends, per media reports their meeting with First Nations went very well (which is not the same as meeting the Australian Aborigines, but hopefully there is some communication between them, since First Nations originally offered to be intermediaries). I'm just going to quote part of an article about that, because I like what they said about the blankets (and sorry if this was mentioned already):

http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/world-champs-domnina-shabalin-lead-ice/914643

"They said it should cover our hearts and keep us from any bad things, so we were very pleased with that," Shabalin said. "We hope we will become friends, so that's why we wore them today. We are open, we are open to friendship."

Hmmmm, so maybe it's the blankets that keep bad marks away from them

Switching to a completely different topic: someone who claimed to be Moldovan commented on B/A's OD on youtube that the music was authentic . I know nothing about Moldovan music, so I have no idea if that's true or not, but I thought I'd share that anyway.

Justafan · Feb 22, 2010

tralfamadorian said:
That's pretty much what happened, as far as I remember the "war" broke out on the eve of the OD at Euros, I don't think D/S had time for anything else but minor changes between then and Olys.

I think it was very clear from the start though that they did not mean to mock or make fun of anyone intentionally, and this was clear to the aboriginal leaders as well. Last I heard any quotes from those leaders they seemed to be more forgiving, they invited D/S to visit Australia and get to know their culture and Bev Manton (one of the leaders) also reacted positively about the costume change.

I very much hope they were able to make amends, per media reports their meeting with First Nations went very well (which is not the same as meeting the Australian Aborigines, but hopefully there is some communication between them, since First Nations originally offered to be intermediaries). I'm just going to quote part of an article about that, because I like what they said about the blankets (and sorry if this was mentioned already):

Hmmmm, so maybe it's the blankets that keep bad marks away from them

Switching to a completely different topic: someone who claimed to be Moldovan commented on B/A's OD on youtube that the music was authentic . I know nothing about Moldovan music, so I have no idea if that's true or not, but I thought I'd share that anyway.

Maybe they should have skated with the blankets to cover up those ferns.

~

The Moldavan music does sound authentic...you can Youtube it...but that particular selection wasn't the best choice, in my amatuerish uneducated opinion.

~

colleen o'neill · Feb 22, 2010

Dodhiyel ..I wasn't objecting to the use of colour in K/N's firebird costume, though, perhaps another designer might use it a little more artfully. And I'm very familiar with the origins of the story ,the music ,Bakst's original costume design and many others over the years by numerous ballet companies , having studied and taught ballet and other forms of dance for a good portion of my life.

My objection is to the degree of K's apparent nakedness , which would serve no purpose other than to titillate, even if this was ballet. It's completely inappropriate for a sports competition ,by the ISU's own rules , and pushes the boundaries beyond even the lax enforcement of recent years.

Ice Dance's OD - Sunday 21st 7:15pm EST

kiz_4Ever

colleen o'neill

Sk8n Mama

taikwan

Dodhiyel

sk8rdad

Joesitz (RIP)

Hikaru

kiz_4Ever

csparkles

oxade21

Match Penalty

csparkles

Justafan

formersk8ter

Spun Silver

DesertRoad

Justafan

tralfamadorian

Justafan

colleen o'neill

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