Surprising that Fumie Suguri never won Worlds

It is very surprising the stunning Fumie Suguri never won Worlds. She had all the tools to easily win Worlds- big jumps, strong spins, great footwork, wonderful artistry, amazing basic skating. Why didnt she.

While I also feel that she "deserved" a World title back in her prime, you also need to take into account who she was up against: Michelle Kwan in 2002 and 2003 (Fumie got bronze both times), a skate-of-her-life by Shizuka in 2004, another by Irina in 2005, and yet another by Kimmie Meissner in 2006 (where Fumie had Silver).

While I think Kimmie's performance was better in 2006, part of me thinks that everyone would have benefited if Fumie had won because: (a) Fumie probably would have retired on a high note; (b) Kimmie may have had a longer career if she hadn't had the problems that she had due to peaking too early (ETA: yes, I know that the direct reasons for her decline were her injuries, but I'd be surprised if the added pressure of being a former world champ had nothing to do with it).

IMO Fumie should have won over Kim M because her presentation was way better and Kim's marks were inflated because she landed all her jumps.

She was one of the most talented skaters in her prime and had great programs, but is her lack of world title more surprising compared to Nancy Kerrigan, Sasha Cohen, Joannie Rochette, or even Carolina Kostner?

Meissner got 69 in TES and 60 in PCS while Sugari got 58 in TES but also got a 60 in PCS! How could Meissner and Sugari have tied on PCS? What does in matter that worlds was in Canada? Why is it so often the case that Americans win in Canada?

gmyers said:

Why is it so often the case that Americans win in Canada?

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What makes you say that?

aftertherain said:

What makes you say that?

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Sometimes I just feel that the judges may be like the US is close and there a lot of Americans in the audience maybe it would be good to give the Americans a victory.

gmyers said:

Sometimes I just feel that the judges may be like the US is close and there a lot of Americans in the audience maybe it would be good to give the Americans a victory.

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translated: the 2010 Olympic Champion

gmyers said:

Sometimes I just feel that the judges may be like the US is close and there a lot of Americans in the audience maybe it would be good to give the Americans a victory.

Click to expand...

Ummm, what?! I've seen the "home ice" argument come into place before but I have never seen the "neighboring country home ice" angle before

Please show an example of an American woman winning in Canada who didn't deserve to win...

Yay, I have much to say about Suguri.

I believe she should have won 2002 Worlds. She skated the best Long Program of her entire career and I found that performance to be artistically the best of the night, even better than Kwan (who was a bit tentative and didn't perform the program quite as well as she did at Nationals). Suguri had less technical content than Slutskaya and Kwan because she doubled out on her Loop, but Slutskaya's program had less meaningful choreographic content than Suguri's (and Kwan's) and she did not perform with an overwhelming amount of fire or grace (it was a better performance than at Olympics, though). I would mark their performances as:

1. Suguri - 5.6/59
2. Kwan - 5.7/5.8
3. Slutskaya - 5.8/5.7

After the 2002 World Championships, Suguri never really lived up to her promise. Her programs in 2003 were fairly boring and I don't think she deserved to medal at that World Championships (Cohen did).

At 2004 Worlds she was actually undermarked, I would have placed her in 4th overall there rather than 6th, but neither of her programs were brilliant.

In 2005 I liked that she tried to do something different in the SP with the Pink Panther music, but it really just wasn't a great program. And her LP to "Carmen" was not good at all. It just went from element to element with no memorable choreography.

And then we come to her 2006, which is what all of you seem to be talking about right now. Her Short Program for this season was by FAR her strongest ever; a perfect vehicle for her that was interesting and dynamic and completely drew out her expressiveness. Unfortunately, at the Olympics her spins hindered the program (the Spiral Sequence was a hindrance too, as always for Fumie during the CoP era). She tried to do too many ugly spin positions and that detracted from the effect, especially at the end of the program. I liked her actual program more than Arakawa's and if those spins had been better (as they were at Worlds) she should have deserved to place 3rd in the SP.

Fumie's LP this season, however, was not good. She tried to get all deep and profound with Rachmaninoff, but there was nothing in the program. Except for an interesting bit of choreography during her rest section she simply went from element to element, many of which were ugly looking (the Spiral Sequence and all of the spins, except the final one). This is the worst Long Program of her career, prior to 2008 and onward anyway.

Fumie only deserved 4th at 2006 Olympics. The talk of her being robbed by Slutskaya and especially by Cohen was a lot of trash. Slutskaya was stronger technically (even with the fall in the LP, when you consider the quality of her spins throughout the competition) and her programs were actually two of the most appealing in her entire career. And then with Sasha everyone seemed to forget she landed 5 Triples despite the two big mistakes at the start of the program. More importantly, Sasha's performances at the Olympics were artistically the best of entire entire career and those programs from her are also THE BEST female programs we have seen in the CoP era. Cohen absolutely deserved the Silver; Arakawa's victory should have been a very close one considering she was overscored in the SP.

Then, at 2006 Worlds, Fumie only deserved 3rd (Cohen should have been off the podium, before you start yelling at me). First of all, talking about Kimmie Meissner, that was the best Long Program of her career. Not just technically, but also in terms of the presentation. The program had a good placement of the elements and a powerful, yet youthful, mood which Kimmie represented fairly well. Fumie's poor LP wasn't even skated as well as it was at the Olympics either, so Kimmie deserved to be ahead even on the presentation mark.

The Silver medal at 2006 Worlds should have gone to Sarah Meier. She skated a perfect SP that, while simple, was very nice. Where she deserved to overtake Fumie was in the Long Program, though. It was a choreographically superior performance in comparison to Fumie and technically she was stronger as well considering she did 5 clean Triples and a 3-jump combination, whereas Fumie only did 4 clean Triples and did not have a 3-jump combination.

After 2006, the only worthwhile season Fumie has had in my eyes is 2007. Her SP was just okay, but her Long Program was very interesting. Choreographically I don't think it ever developed as much as it could have, and as always Fumie's CoP spins and spirals detract from the program, but it was unique and playful.

Everything she has done since then has been a TOTAL bore and the quality of her jumps have slipped as well. Also, btw, she only deserved 4th place at Japanese Nationals for the 2009 season and should NOT have been sent to Worlds. Akiko Suzuki deserved that spot on the World team. Fumie can keep competing if she wants to, it's not like she is committing a crime by doing so, but she will never make the podium at Japanese Nationals ever again and I do not find her at all pleasant to watch anymore.

gmyers said:

Sometimes I just feel that the judges may be like the US is close and there a lot of Americans in the audience maybe it would be good to give the Americans a victory.

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I quite agree. Just like, Korea is close to Japan, so Yu-na Kim is always overscored in Japan and Mao Asada overscored in Korea.

Blades of Passion, I agree with many of your points. Especially the bit amout Meier deserving to medal in 2006. Where would you have placed Sokolova though?
And I'm surprised you found Fumie's Carmen forgettable. I though it was one of her more effective programs.

I would have had Sokolova in 5th. I don't care for her Presentation - in the SP it was a junior level musical interpretation and in the LP she actually had good expression but there were too many telegraphed jumps and resting breaks, plus she didn't finish in time with the music at the end either. Her Spins are weak, her Spirals are bad, and her Footwork is lackluster.

The only thing she had was good jumping (but not her best, there was no 3-3 combination in either program and she doubled one jump in the LP), that's it really.

EDIT - My top 6 placements overall at 2006 Worlds are:

1. Kimmie Meissner (6th SP, 1st LP)
2. Sarah Meier (4th SP, 2nd LP)
3. Fumie Suguri (2nd SP, 3rd LP)
4. Sasha Cohen (1st SP, 5th LP)
5. Elena Sokolova (5th SP, 4th LP)
6. Yukari Nakano (3rd SP, 6th LP)

Mathman said:

I quite agree. Just like, Korea is close to Japan, so Yu-na Kim is always overscored in Japan and Mao Asada overscored in Korea.

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I watched some of her past programs and she just seemed kinda blah to me. She definitely lacked the "it" factor to hit it big. I found Yukina Ota to be much more pleasing to watch. It was unfortunate that injury hindered her career.

gmyers said:

Meissner got 69 in TES and 60 in PCS while Sugari got 58 in TES but also got a 60 in PCS! How could Meissner and Sugari have tied on PCS? What does in matter that worlds was in Canada? Why is it so often the case that Americans win in Canada?

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Meissner did the program of her life at those Worlds while Suguri had multiple errors. Overall performance and execution matters in PCS. I agree with the poster who believes Suguri lacks a real "it factor" and lacks in certain areas like flexibility. She is a very good skater, but just seemed to often run into skaters who had a little more ability (either artistically or technically) than she did.

gmyers said:

Why is it so often the case that Americans win in Canada?

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gmyers said:

Sometimes I just feel that the judges may be like the US is close and there a lot of Americans in the audience maybe it would be good to give the Americans a victory.

Click to expand...

:sheesh:

SKATE CANADA INTERNATIONAL (1973-2009) --- GOLD MEDAL WINNERS

MENS’

• Canada – 18

• Russia -- 6

• United States – 3

• Japan –2

• Czech(oslovakia) – 2

• United Kingdom – 1

• Germany – 1

• France – 1

** Perhaps Canada feels that Russia is a closer neighbor than the US? Ahahaha.

LADIES’

• United States – 14

• Canada – 9

• Russia – 4

• Japan – 2

• Germany – 1

• Italy – 1

• Hungary – 1

• France – 1

• China – 1

• Ukraine – 1

PAIRS’

• Russia – 10

• Canada – 7

• Germany – 5

• China – 3

• United States – 0

ICE DANCING

• Canada – 13

• Russia – 7

• United States – 6

• France – 2

• United Kingdom – 1

• Hungary – 1

• Finland – 1

• Italy – 1

• Lithuania – 1

• Bulgaria – 1

• Ukraine – 1

4CC in CANADA --- GOLD MEDALISTS IN ALL FOUR DISCIPLINES

1999

• China – 1

• Japan – 1

• Canada – 1

• Uzbekistan – 1

• United States – 0

2004

• China – 1

• Japan – 1

• Canada – 1

• United States – 1

2009

• China – 1

• South Korea – 1

• Canada – 1

• United States – 1

---RESULT: Canada and China have the most.

WORLDS in CANADA --- GOLD MEDALISTS IN ALL FOUR DISCIPLINES
My hand hurts. Maybe later. (Or never.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skate_Canada_International
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Continents_Figure_Skating_Championships
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships

Oh no my vibe and feelings and skimming of history has been proven to be mistaken!!

gmyers said:

Oh no my vibe and feelings and skimming of history has been proven to be mistaken!!

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Oh no

Your turn.

SerpentineSteps said:

While I also feel that she "deserved" a World title back in her prime, you also need to take into account who she was up against: Michelle Kwan in 2002 and 2003 (Fumie got bronze both times), a skate-of-her-life by Shizuka in 2004, another by Irina in 2005, and yet another by Kimmie Meissner in 2006 (where Fumie had Silver).

While I think Kimmie's performance was better in 2006, part of me thinks that everyone would have benefited if Fumie had won because: (a) Fumie probably would have retired on a high note; (b) Kimmie may have had a longer career if she hadn't had the problems that she had due to peaking too early (ETA: yes, I know that the direct reasons for her decline were her injuries, but I'd be surprised if the added pressure of being a former world champ had nothing to do with it).

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Irina was the winner in 2002, not Michelle.