Mens FS ~ November 27th, Saturday, at 9:25AM EST | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Mens FS ~ November 27th, Saturday, at 9:25AM EST

ImaginaryPogue said:
So, NMURA basically said that Kozuka wouldn't make the Japanese National team (fairly). I hope he/she's not a betting person.
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Good one IP:laugh:

I was one of those who argued with NMura, seeing with what kind of conviction was debating that he should be left of the national team in Hanyu's favor.
Don't worry, I will scoop up the thread about the mens in this season and reignite the discussion, now that the GP series are over, because the season is taking shape rather nicely and I am glad to see one of my favorites Taka Kozuka growing into the skater I always believed he will...
 
:biggrin: I'm Canadian too, and I wouldn't mind if the Japanese men swept the podium.( But not because I'm PO'd at Patrick..) Of the six guys, Dai , Taka and Nobu have the most involving programs for me ( not totally comfortable with Taka's Soul Man,but ..) Patrick's music for both programs leaves me cold, and I simply don't buy him picking up girls in a bar...Brandon's SP I like ,but I'm very neutral to the FP..I simply dislike everything but the jumps in Amodio's programs..and he could do those last year. ( Run away, Florent.)
 
Actually, Florent's jumps seem a heck of a lot more consistent this season. And I will say that his sheer chutzpah is VERY appealing. I don't get why his charisma appeals to me in a way that Jouberts/Plushenko's/etc never did.

I'm intrigued that you feel involved in Oda's LP, colleen. I'll have to check it out again, but I do hope that Kozuka routs him at the GPF on PCS. More generally, no skater really has two programs that I love.
 
fairly4 said:
not crazy about florents--too many rest stops inbetween -badly choreographed by moving hands. which allows him to stop and rest whereas other skaters can't do that. too easy for him to do the jumps after rest stops.
decent skate--probably get huge score though. undeserved-with rest stops
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The way Florent moves his body during the "rest stops" still takes up energy and showcases a unique ability. You can't teach someone to move and emote like he does. That's called talent. It would be nice if he was able to tone down the amount of stationary movement and incorporate more of the choreography while moving across the ice but it's exciting nonetheless and interprets the music quite well. His LP is the second best of the season for me so far (Shawn Sawyer's LP edges his out for the top spot).

I'm VERY happy he made the GPF. Completely deserved. It's too bad Joubert withdrew, would have been nice to see him on the podium instead of Mroz. Joubert's program has a lot of potential, hopefully he will perfect it in the coming months and deliver at Europeans and Worlds.

It's great to see Kozuka being so strong this season, but I wish his programs were better. Too bad the judges didn't respect him at the Olympics, where he deserved a massive score like he got here.
 
I just came from Paris:hb:I skipped ladies Lp to go to christmas market and after the Mao sp I was :cry: so i dont know anyhting about Lp yet, dont spoil me please!
Men lp was much better than the sp which was a disaster except Kozuka! There were some golden skate girls with me and we all went :jaw:with Joubert TES score in sp, as much as the rest of audience, I havent looked the protocols yet though..Also Reynolds scores in sp seemed low. We tried to guess the scores after every skater, so count me in the audience that doesnt get the marks. Nevertheless I thought this was the best judged gp.

I dont know what is the general impression but Kozuka i started liking since worlds 2009 and he stole my heart for good now, I found the heir to Lambiel, now I need to find the heir to Plu to be :biggrin: I dont mean Kozuka skates similary to Lambiel, but he makes me feel equally beautiful, he was just wonderful and what guts to skate like this after Amodio 's Lp that brought the arena down, the MJ program is a mess, all the things people here hate, two foot skating, no transitions and 1 minute poses overall but Amodio is becoming a star and he sold this program to the very end, Morozov does crap programs but he made Amodio consistent this year with his jumps so kudos. We enjoyed this very much, and especially after Mroz it was like a morning alarm clock, we woke up. It is not that Mroz was boring to me, it looked like he was bored as well, I dont know which was worse sp or lp. I liked Reynolds far more, this kid has improved a lot since last year, still bizare posture and he rushes but it is worth mentioning how much he changed for the better. From the rest I like Liebers and I think he deserved more pcs, he is really interesting to watch. Nan Song was far better in JW last year, his programs this year I dont like them.
Thats all for now, if you heard a scream before Kozuka was announced that would be me, I had a synchro problem with the rest of audience, i rushed:o:
 
ImaginaryPogue said:
So, NMURA basically said that Kozuka wouldn't make the Japanese National team (fairly). I hope he/she's not a betting person.
Click to expand...

I didn't say "Kozuka won't make", just said Hanyu is the better choice in the long perspective. Looks like the Europeans and the Canadians could agree on one thing. Kozuka is "better than Hanyu" to deal with. Everyone can agree, Hanyu's immense talents can't be compared with 21 y.o. man who still can't land a clean quad over two years.
 
NMURA said:
I didn't say "Kozuka won't make", just said Hanyu is the better choice in the long perspective. Looks like the Europeans and the Canadians could agree on one thing. Kozuka is "better than Hanyu" to deal with. Everyone can agree, Hanyu's immense talents can't be compared with 21 y.o. man who still can't land a clean quad over two years.
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No, you said the following

As for worlds, I believe Takahashi and Oda are lock. The third spot will go to the JSF's favorite. Hanyu made a strong impression at his senior debut. If Kozuka couldn't land a quad at GP competitions, he may lose the judges' favor and advantages at nationals. In fact, even the international judges could reconsider Kozuka's position in the Japanese men. Machida's chance is limited because he can't match both Kozuka's seniority and Hanyu's future expectations.
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I believe Kozuka's disaster FS in Torino was the real turning point of his career. What can we expect from such an inferior jumper? Isn't it better to invest on Hanyu as Takahashi's successor and the medal hope at Sochi?
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Kozuka won't be a serious contender anywhere. When a title or a medal is in sight, he always blows it. That's enough.
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Kozuka is 25. He never masters the quad and his 3A is always hit or miss. He's mentally weak and lacking effective presentation and judge/audience appeals (= top level PCS).
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NMURA said:
I didn't say "Kozuka won't make", just said Hanyu is the better choice in the long perspective. Looks like the Europeans and the Canadians could agree on one thing. Kozuka is "better than Hanyu" to deal with. Everyone can agree, Hanyu's immense talents can't be compared with 21 y.o. man who still can't land a clean quad over two years.
Click to expand...

Wow. This is so dismissive. How many 21 y. o. men can land a clean quad regardless of how long they have practiced it? Or men of any age?

Landing a quad is almost superhuman, often exerting a heavy price on the few who could do it.

And to think some actual top skaters have been called cocky and dispised for it. It's all so easy for an online critic in an armchair.
 
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seniorita said:
I just came from Paris:hb:I skipped ladies Lp to go to christmas market and after the Mao sp I was :cry: so i dont know anyhting about Lp yet, dont spoil me please!
Men lp was much better than the sp which was a disaster except Kozuka! There were some golden skate girls with me and we all went :jaw:with Joubert TES score in sp, as much as the rest of audience, I havent looked the protocols yet though..Also Reynolds scores in sp seemed low. We tried to guess the scores after every skater, so count me in the audience that doesnt get the marks. Nevertheless I thought this was the best judged gp.

I dont know what is the general impression but Kozuka i started liking since worlds 2009 and he stole my heart for good now, I found the heir to Lambiel, now I need to find the heir to Plu to be :biggrin: I dont mean Kozuka skates similary to Lambiel, but he makes me feel equally beautiful, he was just wonderful and what guts to skate like this after Amodio 's Lp that brought the arena down, the MJ program is a mess, all the things people here hate, two foot skating, no transitions and 1 minute poses overall but Amodio is becoming a star and he sold this program to the very end, Morozov does crap programs but he made Amodio consistent this year with his jumps so kudos. We enjoyed this very much, and especially after Mroz it was like a morning alarm clock, we woke up. It is not that Mroz was boring to me, it looked like he was bored as well, I dont know which was worse sp or lp. I liked Reynolds far more, this kid has improved a lot since last year, still bizare posture and he rushes but it is worth mentioning how much he changed for the better. From the rest I like Liebers and I think he deserved more pcs, he is really interesting to watch. Nan Song was far better in JW last year, his programs this year I dont like them.
Thats all for now, if you heard a scream before Kozuka was announced that would be me, I had a synchro problem with the rest of audience, i rushed:o:
Click to expand...

It's so great to have a report from someone who was there! Thanks, Seniorita. I understand why you didn't want to watch the ladies' long program after Mao's disappointing SP performance. I'd have felt the same way. Your description of Kozuka as an heir to Lambiel makes me very interested in him. I haven't really had a chance to see him but will now seek him out. (And of course I'll watch some more Lambiel while I'm at it!) As for an heir to Plushy, if things go right, you won't need one: you'll have the one and only original one for a while longer.
 
NMURA said:
I didn't say "Kozuka won't make", just said Hanyu is the better choice in the long perspective. Looks like the Europeans and the Canadians could agree on one thing. Kozuka is "better than Hanyu" to deal with. Everyone can agree, Hanyu's immense talents can't be compared with 21 y.o. man who still can't land a clean quad over two years.
Click to expand...

You must be really hating Kozuka for some reason which is unknown for me, but you start to become ridiculous with your statements.
Kozuka just skated the program of th e whole season and you keep on mumbling non sense.

In the long run, Kozuka is a better choice then either Daisuke who will retire in one year or two and Oda who keeps on failing to have a breakthrough. And Hanyu is too early to call, he is an inconsistent skater for now.
 
Takahashi is not certain to retire in a year or two. He could potentially go to 2014 if he can stay healthy. Oda is overrated, I agree Kozuka is a better bet than Oda who will probably never make it to the top.
 
pangtongfan said:
Takahashi is not certain to retire in a year or two. He could potentially go to 2014 if he can stay healthy. Oda is overrated, I agree Kozuka is a better bet than Oda who will probably never make it to the top.
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I hope you are right about Dai. I wish he never retires (LOL), but I read last spring he was saying he stays in this year only becasue the worlds are in Japan, so I assumed once he wins in Tokyo he could be gone.
 
Olympia said:
It's so great to have a report from someone who was there! Thanks, Seniorita. I understand why you didn't want to watch the ladies' long program after Mao's disappointing SP performance. I'd have felt the same way. Your description of Kozuka as an heir to Lambiel makes me very interested in him. I haven't really had a chance to see him but will now seek him out. (And of course I'll watch some more Lambiel while I'm at it!) As for an heir to Plushy, if things go right, you won't need one: you'll have the one and only original one for a while longer.
Click to expand...
I hope it didnt look like as I compare them cause I dont. Kozuka got me in the same zone with his Lp as Lambiel did (i found his sp fun and it was a relief cause sp competition and the ambiance in general in the arena were awful), i dont know if it came across on tv but he is very special the way he goes from one thing to the next, he leans quite naturally like he walks, he has so clean edges and the right amount of transitions and choreo not to make you dizzy or feel rushed, and imagine I dont like much his music in lp, I was afraid it would be a let down in the arena skating after Amodio's home crowd pandemonium but Kozuka was really on another planet. And his reaction in kiss and cry was priceless as well as his winners tour after, many japanese flags in the arena bytheway.

I have a 5 out 5 strike in competitions I attend since last season, the one I root for always wins. I ll start thinking of taking bets:biggrin:
 
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seniorita said:
I have a 5 out 5 strike in competitions I attend since last season, the one I root for always wins. I ll start thinking of taking bets:biggrin:
Click to expand...

I guess you must feel bad for not going to Vancouver last year ;)

Thanks for the Live report. Kozuka got me yesterday too - thought it was the best skating I have seen so far this season.
 
pangtongfan said:
Takahashi is not certain to retire in a year or two. He could potentially go to 2014 if he can stay healthy. Oda is overrated, I agree Kozuka is a better bet than Oda who will probably never make it to the top.
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I felt the same way about Oda after seeing him skate live at Skate America. Even though Dai's technical content was not as difficult as Oda's, Dai still won it hands down as far as I was concerned.
 
IMO (which is never humble) I think Kozuka is a first rate Tech skater. Every trick he does is well planned ahead and he executes most of them with the precision required by the CoP. That includes Skating Ability which I believe is more Tech than PCs. He is a top contender for whatever competition he enters.

However, his performance, generally is rather wooden although he showed some spark at this year's TEB. He does not reach out to me, nor does he draw me into his well crafted programs. I hope that this does not sound too harsh but I wish him the best at the Japanese Nationals. He would be a good competitor at Worlds.
 
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