Men's Free Skate - 12/11

stickle said:

Patrick is lighter on his feet and in his body demeanor than Dai was and his arm movement is in context to the character he's portraying whereas I find Dai an arm waver which has always annoyed me regardless of who the skater is. Patrick's spins were way better than Dai's in these videos and Patrick has more difficult content between the jumps. For sure, this was a marvelous performance by Dai and I don't mean to diminish it but you asked which one we preferred and I prefer Patrick's.

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Oh, and I can just see that I am not the only one who like this type of skating

Nothing they've said is any meaner than you've (let's talk) posted anonymously on the internet, so.... But I agree, Takahashi and Kozuka are gentlemen.

skatinginbc, did Wier say why he wanted to smack Chan in the face? If he didn't, I don't know how that's anything to change your opinion of him.

genki, the comparison itself is unfair. Partially because Chan didn't skate very well at the Olympics, partially because Dai has the hometown crowd boosting your perception of his skate (compare the reaction of Crone/Poirier's "Eleanor Rigby" FD in China and Canada and you'll see a noteworthy difference that definitely colours your perception). I also will argue with your conjecture "it's only subjective when they're close in quality." Your arguing that something is subjective only when in an objective situation, which is simply wrong. I mean, cultural influences alone render that statement a falsehood.

Additionally, I wonder what "touches one's soul." I'm in awe of what Chan does. I mean, he does pretty much a footwork sequence right before a 3z-1L-3s sequence. That's insane! Admittedly, it's so insane he cannot actually do it successfully.

Now, having said all that, I do prefer Takahashi's program. He's a more outward skater with a better understanding of the passion POTO requires. Chan is more inwards - I'd love to see him skate to something soft and inviting. I was quite disappointed with the POTO choice for the Olympic season, and while I feel it was the correct decision to keep it for the following one, I do look forward to the day where he has legendary programs to showcase his skills.

POTO itself is such banal music that an absolute commitment to the insane melodrama it contains is required, and very few skaters can muster up that kind of drive (Davis/White certainly didn't, and I don't think Takahashi did it as well as it needed - especially by the end you can see him running on empty. Drobiazko/Vanagas had it in their 2006 FD)

skatinginbc said:

I hope that somebody here can give me some counseling. I have eagerly defended for Patrick Chan in the past, but tonight I watched a special interview on CTV Face Time about Johnny Weir, who explicitly stated that he disliked Chan and would love to smack him on the face. That statement profoundly changed my attitude. All of a sudden, I realize why so many people would watch Chan's performance through colored glasses, and I am now one of them and can no longer appreciate his skating in the same way as I did. And the worst of all, there is an evil part of me wishing for his demise in his skating career. Gosh, it is so hard to just watch skating without projecting personal bias into it.

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I feel for you.

Forget about what Johnny Weir or anyone say. Think why you have liked Chan before you heard what Weir or anyone said anything. You've just realized the deep reasons why so many disliked him. It doesn't mean that your original view was incorrect. You must have your own reasons why you liked him and you are perfectly right with your original views.

Release yourself from this struggle. Any views are correct views because the views are subjective. There is no right or wrong like moral standard. The only difference is that some views are more subjective. Some views are more closer to the reality. You are free to change your mind.

If you believe what Weir said and his view has changed your original view, it's perfectly fine. You are not alone. Many thinks what Weir said were correct. In fact, I really liked how he described Chan's hands as "star-fish" hands. But I have my own personal view on the subject. I agree with some but not all what Weir said about Chan (I don't know what he said on CTV this time? I only heard his commentating in 2010 Worlds on Universal Sports. And I don't know if Weir has changed view since then?) I certainly have changed some of my views about Chan since 2010 Worlds Because Chan has changed. Now he has the hardest jump in the world written on his resume. In fact, not many in the whole wide world have the consistancy he has on this jump. He improved his spin. Now when I watch him spinning, I think about Lambiel. Chan's is not as fast as lambiel's but it's as beautiful as his. I appreciate Chan a lot more than before.

Please keep in mind that Weir's view is just his view. He is a gifted talker who likes to play words games. He likes to say things different from others in order to make himself stand out. Is he correct on what he said? You'll be the judge for yourself.

Have a long, good night sleep. When you wake up energetic and fresh, you might think it differently.

Kozuka at Press Conference.

Video poster's comment translated: A journalist who attended the press conference told me, "he kept apologizing during the conference. he sounded very sincere and he guaranteed Dai's coach that it would never happen again. He really is an honest kid. I believe he felt really sorry. Afterwards, Patrick and judges all went to comfort him, saying it was purely an accident, so he wouldn't feel too bad."

Patrick Chan: "The whole reason I skate is to make people happy"

This was discussed at ontd_skating a day or two ago and one of the responses was that the only way Chan could make her happy was to stop skating and die.

SkateFiguring said:

Kozuka at Press Conference.

Video poster's comment translated: A journalist who attended the press conference told me, "he kept apologizing during the conference. he sounded very sincere and he guaranteed Dai's coach that it would never happen again. He really is an honest kid. I believe he felt really sorry. Afterwards, Patrick and judges all went to comfort him, saying it was purely an accident, so he wouldn't feel too bad."

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Kozuka is one of the most kindhearted skaters I have ever seen. I feel so bad for him and I think it is abundantly clear that he meant no harm whatsoever to Daisuke. He would have only hurt himself too had the accident turned out less fortunate for both of them. It's okay, Taka, all is forgiven.

Patrick Chan: "The whole reason I skate is to make people happy"

This was discussed at ontd_skating a day or two ago and one of the responses was that the only way Chan could make her happy was to stop skating and die.

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Chalk it up to absurd internet trolling and bullying. The internet is an unfortunate playground for complete morons and neanderthals. :disapp:

And I feel like smacking Johny Weir across the face lol........I would never put any credence nor consider important anything J. Weir says............Put your money where your big mouth is Johny..........go out there and do some quads for a change.......

SkateFiguring said:

Kozuka at Press Conference.



Patrick Chan: "The whole reason I skate is to make people happy"

This was discussed at ontd_skating a day or two ago and one of the responses was that the only way Chan could make her happy was to stop skating and die.

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If you hate ontd_skating so much then why do you go there? Also, you are taking them way too seriously. They don't really mean most of the things they say.

SkateFiguring said:

Kozuka at Press Conference.

Video poster's comment translated: A journalist who attended the press conference told me, "he kept apologizing during the conference. he sounded very sincere and he guaranteed Dai's coach that it would never happen again. He really is an honest kid. I believe he felt really sorry. Afterwards, Patrick and judges all went to comfort him, saying it was purely an accident, so he wouldn't feel too bad."

Patrick Chan: "The whole reason I skate is to make people happy"

This was discussed at ontd_skating a day or two ago and one of the responses was that the only way Chan could make her happy was to stop skating and die.

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Aww, how sweet of Patrick to comfort Kozuka! Off topic, but I heard that while Mr. Sato was in China with Kozuka, Kozuka senior stepped in to help Mao with training!

SkateFiguring said:

Kozuka at Press Conference.

Video poster's comment translated: A journalist who attended the press conference told me, "he kept apologizing during the conference. he sounded very sincere and he guaranteed Dai's coach that it would never happen again. He really is an honest kid. I believe he felt really sorry. Afterwards, Patrick and judges all went to comfort him, saying it was purely an accident, so he wouldn't feel too bad."

Patrick Chan: "The whole reason I skate is to make people happy"

This was discussed at ontd_skating a day or two ago and one of the responses was that the only way Chan could make her happy was to stop skating and die.

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On a completely irrelevant note, I LOVE Patrick's Kermit shirt.


But your comment about ontd_skating--I'm not sure why you insist on bringing them up here and taking them at face value, especially in that Patrick post when there were also other comments (for example) stating how they would like Patrick to go into, er, adult cinema, to make them happy. Ontd_skating is a lulz and sparkletext community and they are clearly commenting in jest most of the time--for god's sake, they've even had Plushenko and Lambiel hateposts before and I'm sure you know how much those skaters are loved there.

Also, if you're a member--the first rule of ontd_skating is that what goes on in ontd_skating stays in ontd_skating.

Johnny Weir used to be a good skater when he wasn't obsessed about being famous and concentrated on the blade. He's not or never was as good as Patrick. If you compare Patrick's last three seasons, he has been far more successful than Weir. He has two silver medals to Johnny Weir's one bronze, plus he also has the GPF in his mantle. Furthermore, his success in landing the quad just this year overshadows Johnny's. So he can say what he wants, he is a bitter queen.

Am I the only person who found the tone of skatinginbc's comments #114 to be one of humourous sarcasm not seriousness? I wouldn't expect the non-native English speakers to pick up on this, they take everything pretty literally...but the rest of us? :sheesh: (sk..bc, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

deleted, doublepost

I don't hate onta_skating. They can be quite entertaining, and I like some of their topics. As I said before, they are also good for social observation. It was not just a troll stating such a hateful thing, which is so aweful to say about anybody. It is a community of young people bullying another young person, a common happening these days resulting in psychological scarring and sometimes tragic deaths. Not meaning what you say is not an excuse for such hurtful behavior. A public person being the target is not a justification. A public person is human too, particularly a teenager who could be fragile. Fortunately, Patrick is not fragile, and he also has many supporters to help balance out the attacks and the bad "energy" created. I've seen similarly vile haters against Patrick Chan on various skating boards and blogs, except they are worse as it's their real sentiments rather than peer presure and group think.

Patrick probably has more fans outside the internet and his online supporters may also be older connaisseurs of skating and not as prone to exagerated expressions. I've simply been alarmed by the extent of underserved negativity toward such a fine young man. Don't mind me trying to balance things out a bit and be a comfort and encouragement to Patrick's fans. They have feelings too, right? There must be quite a few Chan fans, like me before I joined here, who read online discussions and feel dismay silently.

I feel Patrick Chan was much maligned during the Olympics. Prior to that, he was used to friendly skating media he could be very open with. But the Olympics brought on all media. They looked for and would even creat controversies and Patrick was a natural target to put on the other side of quad debate. These days most media just run with one report so headlines that said Patrick "blasts" Plushenko as old were read worldwide, with no video of how he actually said it. Patrick came from a Chinese culture that respects the elderly. He had and respected two very old coaches and is respectful with various older persons, and he has good relationships with his parents, still often worrying about getting into troubles with his mother. I got what he meant really was that Plushenko was "old school" regard scoring. But suddenly he became the arrogant kid blasting his seniors. He defended Buttle against Joubert's open criticism. A bit rash, yes, but he was 18 and what he said was true and proven right: you didn't need a quad to win and if all you had were quads, you better bring them in your program.

Videos have since shown Patrick and Joubert having a pretty good relationship. Patrick told Kurt in Torino how happy he was to see Joubert came back and happy again but that was hardly viewed or talked about.

As for Johnny, there were pictures of him with Patrick that made many fans "ship" them. But Johnny got bitter about his Olympic placing and then a headline saying Patrick "attacks" Johnny over the flower crown was run all over the world. This is the source of the headline. See how malicious Patrick really was. Since then Johnny has used his commentator status to diss Patrick, as if he's more accomplished and his opinions are to be valued.

What puzzles me is how Johnny gets away with so many quarrels with and catty comments about other skaters whereas Patrick's every word gets such negative spins and harsh judgments?

I think both Johnny and Patrick receive their fair share of maligning from critics. I also think the majority of media controversies between skaters that get skating fans in an uproar are just publicity stunts to get people interested and talking about figure skating. I think some of the skaters purposefully stir up controversy with their comments for this reason, to keep themselves and figure skating in the public's attention. Sort of like the celebs who call the paparazzi before going out.

museksk8r said:

I think both Johnny and Patrick receive their fair share of maligning from critics. I also think the majority of media controversies between skaters that get skating fans in an uproar are just publicity stunts to get people interested and talking about figure skating. I think some of the skaters purposefully stir up controversy with their comments for this reason, to keep themselves and figure skating in the public's attention. Sort of like the celebs who call the paparazzi before going out.

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Agree. I thnk this is exactly what Johnny is doing. He's of the school "there's no such thing as bad publicity." He's purposely crafting his aura of edgy outrageousness. Take it for what it is--entertainment.

stickle said:

I watched the two videos and I have to say I liked both programs.

I was more drawn to Patrick's performance because I like his skating more. He's lighter on his feet and in his body demeanor than Dai was.

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You shouldn't have "light body demeanor" when you are skating to Phantom of the Opera. That is BAD interpretation. Patrick Chan hardly understands the anguish and solitude of the music. Takahashi's performance at 2007 Worlds was FAR ahead of Chan's here at the GPF. That PCS mark of 87 is ridiculous (it's a new record in PCS for a single men's skater, I think). Chan's skating does not have emotional maturity, nor does he have creative content. He has a lot of transitions but those transitions are almost meaningless within the scope of the program. They don't serve the music or an overall choreographic idea or really even create a striking image on their own. They are simply extra movements.

I liked Johnny's skating but now he's better off doing shows. Even then I'm no fan of OTT makeup and costumes in general, prefering purer talents, whether in singing, skating or other performing arts.

He actually gets away a lot with me too because he could be funny and creative, e.g. the starfish hands comment. I've been turned off by his off ice shenanigans but I don't have to bother with that. However, it's unprofessional and unfair of him as a commetnator to deride other skaters who don't merit his biased criticism, as we can see its effect on at least one member of this board alone.

eta: I went back to read skatinginbc's post and am not sure if s/he was being snarky. Anyway, saying you wish to smack someone on the face is not a comment on that person's skating or character. It's a not so meticulous or classy way of expressing his own negative emotions. Did he explain why he felt this way?

evangeline said:

[ Also, if you're a member--the first rule of ontd_skating is that what goes on in ontd_skating stays in ontd_skating

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And one of the rules of Golden Skate is that what disagreement goes on on any other board, should stay on that board.

Doing otherwise is against the Guidelines.

You shouldn't have "light body demeanor" when you are skating to Phantom of the Opera. That is BAD interpretation. Patrick Chan hardly understands the anguish and solitude of the music. Takahashi's performance at 2007 Worlds was FAR ahead of Chan's here at the GPF. That PCS mark of 87 is ridiculous (it's a new record in PCS for a single men's skater, I think). Chan's skating does not have emotional maturity, nor does he have creative content. He has a lot of transitions but those transitions are almost meaningless within the scope of the program. They don't serve the music or an overall choreographic idea or really even create a striking image on their own. They are simply extra movements.

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Well said. Exactly my thought.Thank you blade of passion.

However, I also respect Chan's beautiful skating. Issue maybe his upper body carriage and lack of details to his arm/finger usage. Also, he does not skate to the beats of music as well as Takahashi. But he is only 19 years old and this means that he has a lot of room to grow.

genki said:

Well said. Exactly my thought.Thank you blade of passion.

However, I also respect Chan's beautiful skating. Issue maybe his upper body carriage and lack of details to his arm/finger usage. Also, he does not skate to the beats of music as well as Takahashi. But he is only 19 years old and this means that he has a lot of room to grow.

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I agree with both of you, I think Chan has a lot to improve, and his PCS marks are a bit weird, compared to Takahashi's, but I think he deserved to win there...but I'm not a fan of his Phantom of the Opera programme either.