What Do You Want to See at Worlds... Dance

npa said:

O, dont worry. From your words there programs are so bad, that even if they will come to WCh, they couldnt prevent D-W to take gold
But lets us to watch, what we want, even if they are so bad, compare to greatest dancers in history I think you know, that even team, who take 24th place at WCh, have ther suppoters who want to see there skating. And i notice one thing - for you all, what D-W made on ice is masterpiece. This is good for them/

Ravensque - thank you! Glad not all people hate V-M

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1. I don't 'hate' V&M
2. I think that if her injury is not connected to her compartment syndrome, they may well be at Worlds.
3. I think if they are at Worlds, they might win or might not.
4. I think if they continue to train, it could be a risk for her. But it's her risk to take.
5. I don't think their programs are bad. I just didn't love their first step sequence in the FD. I liked the rest of the FD, that we saw.
6. The SD for me was a mixed grill. I loved their GW and hated their tango. If it were me, I'd have them do a waltz or quickstep for the second half of the SD. But then I am either neutral toward, dislike or hate almost all the SD's this year.

V-M made smart dessigion. They use romantic SD, wich based on movie story and they show that times very well.
They dont need Argentin tango, because they did it before and honestly - it will be too bad for D-W, if V-M will skate an Argentinian Tango in this season. So they use European tango. There is not only AG they could dance.
And they use different style in FD. Some people love only romantic programs for them - they show them SD, someone - want something new, they made FD for them.
I ask people, who talk about how bad V-M FD is, who made best latin dance on ice. I dont talk about T-D, because they used rhumba, not fast rithm.
The only chance for Z=S to show D-W are better, then V-M - to made for V-M programs, wich will not show reall lines, postures, musicality. For example, like Dom-Shab last seaon OD.
But like i sadi before, D-W are clear favors for WCh gold. But i wish to see V-M programs one more time. And hope they will be at World Team Throhe

dorispulaski said:

1. I don't 'hate' V&M
.
5. I don't think their programs are bad. I just didn't love their first step sequence in the FD. I liked the rest of the FD, that we saw.
6. The SD for me was a mixed grill. I loved their GW and hated their tango. If it were me, I'd have them do a waltz or quickstep for the second half of the SD. But then I am either neutral toward, dislike or hate almost all the SD's this year.

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In first post you said, you like only twizzles.
As for SD. Like i know, you hate tango at all. So for me its werid, thaT tango from Meryl-Charlie are masterpiese and V-M tango you hate.
Why you never hate anithing, what D-W did?
OK. Its your point. But for me its a little look not impartial, when you made your first post about V-M and now try to show, that you are not uber, who blame down other competitiors

All I want is to see C&L skate again (it would be a gift from Heaven if they skated well), I definitely missed them this season. A distant second would be seeing V&M samba. I'm not too picky about placements this year, but it would be nice to see DW finally get that gold

I'm hoping C/L skate well , too. But I'm not really keen on their FD as seen at their recent competition..So I'm hoping for a real resurgence next year. I'm thinking there may have to be a further coaching change ?

colleen o'neill said:

It seems to me that last year it was said that W/P worked with Shae in the off season (and that she was in part responsible for their choreo) and that they were with K&C through the season ( with Camerlengo also doing choreo duty). This year, I don't think I've heard mention of them training part-time in Canada , and then there was the " mentor" quote.

I think it's been good for them, including for the training environment ( more advanced couples etc. )..but I do sometimes wonder if there might be any harbouring of ill feelings between Skate Canada and Shae ,stemming from last year's objection..Of course we'll probably never know.

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For I/P, Doris and yourself, I think you got it right, W/P are now full time with K and C and in the summer thwy could have spent some time with Shae, from their ISU bio:


"Practice low season: 40 h / week at Toronto and Bloomfield Hills/USA
Practice high season: 33 h / week at Bloomfield Hills/USA"

and I am complately in agreement that training in Detroit did wonders for them, but no wories IP, the two divas were all smiles together in the K&C, as we could se, Shae in her mentor role could add some input into the choreo as both herself and Pasquale became sone of the best in the whole world.

I would Pechalat/Bourzat and Bobrova/Soloviev to end both with a medal.I guess it's highly unlikely given that Virtue/Moir will attend Worlds.
The French have finally found programs that suit them and even though Chaplin is a more evolved and demanding version of the Circus it's the best vehicle they had for a long time.
Bobrova/Soloviev have everything I like in a team and I think the Euro silver medal will have boosted their confidence.And Delilah is out of the picture so, yay!
I don't like Davis/White programs this season but I really can't argue that they're not skating them as well as they can.I actually wouldn't mind it if if they won in case Virtue/Moir don't attend or aren't in shape.
I'd like to see the Kerrs in the top 5, I want them to end on a high note, but I can't see a medal at this point.I think the fight for the three medals is going to be really big.
I'm very interested in seeing how the Shibutanis will compare to I/K and which team will get the advantage heading onto next season.It's one little "junior" fight that can be really exciting.
It's really sad that we won't get to see F/S , but I guess Euros was their goal for the season and it was hard to take.I wish them luck in everything they choose to do from now on.
I want W/P to finally skate a clean competition though.I think it will be a great confidence booster for them.

:disapp:OK. ( deep breath)..I feel as though I've just been dealt a devastating wound. I noticed on FSU that C/L are now with Morozov..If things could have looked any more bleak for them (IMO) ,this would be it... I so wanted to see a rebound for them..(probably mainly next year, after this disaster of a season )..but if this is a long term arrangement, I shudder to think of the outcome.

colleen o'neill said:

:disapp:OK. ( deep breath)..I feel as though I've just been dealt a devastating wound. I noticed on FSU that C/L are now with Morozov..If things could have looked any more bleak for them (IMO) ,this would be it... I so wanted to see a rebound for them..(probably mainly next year, after this disaster of a season )..but if this is a long term arrangement, I shudder to think of the outcome.

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Yeah, I know! My greatest fear is what kind of costumes they will show up in!

I couldn't bring myself to even mention the potential for costume disasters , last night.

After years of usually being one of the better -turned- out couples .. I wish they'd gone to Platov ,like the Reeds..or K/C ..A-a-a-r-r-gh !

I think it could work.

I think this competition is Davis/White's best opportunity to win the World Championship given Tessa Virtue's injury. After they lost the SD at the 4CC, Meryl Davis was somewhat dismissive if not a little annoyed during an interview immediately after re: how they came 2nd. Then when they won Gold after the withdraw of Virtue/Moir during FD, Meryl Davis again did the talking (while he was silent) and this time, she came across as though she really couldn't care for what happened to what is supposedly their very good friends off the ice. I was taken aback by how cold she came across. It reminds me the situation between Grishuck/Platov and Krylova/Ovsiannikov about 10 years, the two were best friends off the ice and trained together under the same coaches and at the same place. Eventually, the rivalry got the best of them. I have this feeling if Davis/White doesn't win in Tokyo, their friendship may be in jeopardy as well.

wallylutz said:

I think this competition is Davis/White's best opportunity to win the World Championship given Tessa Virtue's injury. After they lost the SD at the 4CC, Meryl Davis was somewhat dismissive if not a little annoyed during an interview immediately after re: how they came 2nd. Then when they won Gold after the withdraw of Virtue/Moir during FD, Meryl Davis again did the talking (while he was silent) and this time, she came across as though she really couldn't care for what happened to what is supposedly their very good friends off the ice.

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You don't happen to have any YouTube links to the interviews, do you? I didn't see the interviews, and I'm very curious to hear what Meryl had to say.

beabstress said:

You don't happen to have any YouTube links to the interviews, do you? I didn't see the interviews, and I'm very curious to hear what Meryl had to say.

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wallylutz said:

I think this competition is Davis/White's best opportunity to win the World Championship given Tessa Virtue's injury. After they lost the SD at the 4CC, Meryl Davis was somewhat dismissive if not a little annoyed during an interview immediately after re: how they came 2nd. Then when they won Gold after the withdraw of Virtue/Moir during FD, Meryl Davis again did the talking (while he was silent) and this time, she came across as though she really couldn't care for what happened to what is supposedly their very good friends off the ice. I was taken aback by how cold she came across. It reminds me the situation between Grishuck/Platov and Krylova/Ovsiannikov about 10 years, the two were best friends off the ice and trained together under the same coaches and at the same place. Eventually, the rivalry got the best of them. I have this feeling if Davis/White doesn't win in Tokyo, their friendship may be in jeopardy as well.

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Story

Quote: "They have gone through a lot this season," Davis said of the Canadians. "I'm not exactly sure what happened, but we don't really think about it too much. When we come into competitions, we worry about skating our best. When we leave a competition, we're thinking about how we can improve. I'm sure they are disappointed but we are excited and happy with how we skated."

Like wally, I was a little startled at how dismissive Meryl sounded. I didn't see the interview, but that comment alone seems a great deal pricklier than it might have. But having let it simmer for a while....

a) I don't know what Meryl said post-SD, but she erred on the twizzle, right? If it was her mistake and she was irritated/annoyed in the interview, I tend to be forgiving. If a minor error puts you in second place, you get annoyed. Totally expected.

b) You've just skated the best you have all season (SB in both programs). How does it feel to be asked about your main competitors? The feeling of "you wouldn't have won if they had played" about it at the very least would be frustrating. After all, we've seen a clean D/W beat a clean V/M (GPF 2009)

c) To what extent are Meryl/Charlie complicit vis-a-vis the public handling of Tessa's injury issues? They train beside the duo every day, of course, so they have to know a lot more than what's being published. Given how much V/M hid their injuries (by their own admission), I have to think that D/W are at least somewhat complicit here. So a dismissive "we know what they've been through/we don't know what happened" may be all V/M want them to say.

--Odds are, D/W will win in Tokyo, so I wouldn't worry too much about their friendship anyway.

ImaginaryPogue said:

a) I don't know what Meryl said post-SD, but she erred on the twizzle, right? If it was her mistake and she was irritated/annoyed in the interview, I tend to be forgiving. If a minor error puts you in second place, you get annoyed. Totally expected.

b) You've just skated the best you have all season (SB in both programs). How does it feel to be asked about your main competitors? The feeling of "you wouldn't have won if they had played" about it at the very least would be frustrating. After all, we've seen a clean D/W beat a clean V/M (GPF 2009)

c) To what extent are Meryl/Charlie complicit vis-a-vis the public handling of Tessa's injury issues? They train beside the duo every day, of course, so they have to know a lot more than what's being published. Given how much V/M hid their injuries (by their own admission), I have to think that D/W are at least somewhat complicit here. So a dismissive "we know what they've been through/we don't know what happened" may be all V/M want them to say.

--Odds are, D/W will win in Tokyo, so I wouldn't worry too much about their friendship anyway.

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Here is a clip of their SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLQXjgenBw

When the 4CC SD was taking place, several D/W fans were attributing D/W losing to V/M in the SD due to a "Major Error on the Twizzles", you could almost tell some of them reacted with disbelief that D/W should have had a cakewalk to 1st but didn't. It turned out the claim there was a major error in their SD was way overblown. In the post-SD interview, there was no mention of the mistake on her part. She made no reference to the twizzles since it was technically not an error because they still scored positive GOE on the element. The little wobbles were not easily noticeable unless you watch very carefully, hence some judges appeared to miss it or deem it not serious enough to be penalized. And they didn't even lose any levels on that element. What Meryl Davis said, and I am trying to recall from memories, was taking a swipe at the Technical Panel for not giving them Level 4 on the Golden Waltz sequences. She said something about they have always got Level 4 on the GW section the entire season, she wasn't sure how they could have possibly erred without realizing it and it felt good/o.k. during the skate. There wasn't any admission of any errors on her part. Funny enough, she does most of the talking for her team, I wonder why Charlie rarely ever says anything, at least not recently.

To be honest, I doubt D/W know a great deal about Tessa Virtue's injury. For one thing, when she was recovering, she went back to London. Even Scott Moir mentioned how little contact he had with Tessa during that time, their longest separation since they were paired up 13 years ago. After she resumed training, I believe D/W are laser focus on what they need to do. In a way, they likely don't know a lot more than what we don't already know. Plus, I do not think V/M has any control on what D/W has to say, it's so not like that in Ice Dance. Of all 4 disciplines, Ice Dance is the most "intense" of all in the sense that "accidents" or instances of intimidation happen the most often. PR is managed in a much more careful way than say Singles Skating. In Singles, if X skater is having trouble with some injury, he/she will be less likely to try to hide it and more likely to be opened about it, whether in Kiss & Cry or other public venues. Notice when Tessa aborted their FD at 4CC, her lips were completely zipped when the camera was on her, just non-verbal language while talking to her coaches. So we are still left guessing just what problem she had.

That's why Ice Dance is a fascinating sport because off the ice, it really is managed as a cross between sport and beauty pageant contest.

Well, it's not true that they've always received level four (and I know that they said that, based on reports). At NHK they received levels 3 and 1 on their two sequences, fwiw.

Given the reports on the training atmosphere in Canton, I have to assume they operate above that kind of chicanery, though. I certainly hope so.

wallylutz said:

I think this competition is Davis/White's best opportunity to win the World Championship given Tessa Virtue's injury. After they lost the SD at the 4CC, Meryl Davis was somewhat dismissive if not a little annoyed during an interview immediately after re: how they came 2nd. Then when they won Gold after the withdraw of Virtue/Moir during FD, Meryl Davis again did the talking (while he was silent) and this time, she came across as though she really couldn't care for what happened to what is supposedly their very good friends off the ice. I was taken aback by how cold she came across. It reminds me the situation between Grishuck/Platov and Krylova/Ovsiannikov about 10 years, the two were best friends off the ice and trained together under the same coaches and at the same place. Eventually, the rivalry got the best of them. I have this feeling if Davis/White doesn't win in Tokyo, their friendship may be in jeopardy as well.

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To quote others, do you have links to this interview? Is this the press conference after the SD? I've been looking for videos of the press conferences.

That seems more than odd, and very unlike D&W. I have not seen any interviews that gave me that impression. A link would be appreciated. I did see interviews after the SD and FD, done through an interpreter, and the timing synchronization of the clips was so bad that Meryl's words appeared to be coming out of Charlie's mouth and vice versa. So judging Meryl's manner would be very difficult to do.

Even Khoklova, when giving a Russian interview, always says that things are very cordial between all the teams in Canton.

Report of Press conference after SD:

Although they sit second, the U.S. champions were pleased with their overall score, 69.01.

"It must have been a little mistake that we didn't notice," White said of the Golden Waltz pattern.

"We're happy with the season's best, although it wasn't our best skate. We could have put it out there a little bit more. Otherwise it wasn't bad, technically it could have been a little bit better."

While the return of Virtue and Moir complicates the competitive picture, Davis and White said their sights remain on a first-ever U.S. world ice dance title.

"We've been working very hard all year and we're feeling very confident," Davis said. "Winning the world championships [held next month in Tokyo] is definitely still our main goal for this season and don't think the short dance today has changed that for us. We're feeling great."

The two top teams, who train together in Canton, Mich. under Igor Shpilband and Marina Zoueva, maintain a cordial rivalry and are good friends off of the ice.

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."

Report of Press conference after FD:

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110218&content_id=16676858&vkey=ice_news

"First off, we would like to say we are sorry that Tessa and Scott had to withdraw," Davis said. "They have been working really hard and looking great, and I'm sure they will overcome like they always do."

...
While no doubt disappointed with their friendly rivals' setback, for Davis and White, the pursuit of a first-ever U.S. world ice dance title goes on.

"It's been a very great year for us," White said. "Obviously, we've been lucky to have the success that we've had. I think what we are most proud of are the improvements we've made with our connection [to each other] and our connection to the audience...We are still really looking to the worlds; that's what we've been building toward. That's the one that counts the most in our books."

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wallylutz said:

I have this feeling if Davis/White doesn't win in Tokyo, their friendship may be in jeopardy as well.

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But V-M must still a friends with D-W after there gold in Tokyo? If they are reall friends - how this could affect on there friendship?
If Scott and Charlie are friends - they are. If Meryl and Tessa are not - they are not.

And V-M have reall class - they still friends with D-W after all this Davis reaction on there marks at CD and OD at OG and when all coaches was with her, after she was dissapointed she didnr take gold and V0M stay along, and after there both reaction on V-M marks in Fd in Torino, and after Charlie every day after 2009 WCh talk - he must win. But not all have this class. Like Belbin, who still dating with Charlie after he didnt let her dream came truth

G-P and K-O situation was different. At first Linichuck with gold to K-O. And in USA both teams didnt have other friends.

dorispulaski said:

That seems more than odd, and very unlike D&W. I have not seen any interviews that gave me that impression. A link would be appreciated. I did see interviews after the SD and FD, done through an interpreter, and the timing synchronization of the clips was so bad that Meryl's words appeared to be coming out of Charlie's mouth and vice versa. So judging Meryl's manner would be very difficult to do.

Even Khoklova, when giving a Russian interview, always says that things are very cordial between all the teams in Canton.

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1. I'd point out that cordial can mean a lot of things. I think most of us believe that the atmosphere is super friendly and awesome. Cordial can mean polite reserve (though, to be fair to Khoklova, I doubt most of her training mates speak Russian, so I expect that description to be on the low end.). In the past, I've heard comments of B/A, D/W and V/M all being very close and friendly.

2. It does seem out of character, though perhaps not profoundly. We could comment on the eyeroll after the OG CD, for example. One thing to reiterate: if you're good enough for silver, you're good enough to be annoyed you didn't get gold. I wouldn't expect that to be any different whether you're best friends, married to, or loathe the number one competitor. So being bothered that you lost and being happy for the team that won aren't two contradictory positions, in my view.

npa said:

But V-M must still a friends with D-W after there gold in Tokyo? If they are reall friends - how this could affect on there friendship?
If Scott and Charlie are friends - they are. If Meryl and Tessa are not - they are not.

And V-M have reall class - they still friends with D-W after all this Davis reaction on there marks at CD and OD at OG and when all coaches was with her, after she was dissapointed she didnr take gold and V0M stay along, and after there both reaction on V-M marks in Fd in Torino, and after Charlie every day after 2009 WCh talk - he must win. But not all have this class. Like Belbin, who still dating with Charlie after he didnt let her dream came truth

G-P and K-O situation was different. At first Linichuck with gold to K-O. And in USA both teams didnt have other friends.

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3. I do agree that the G/P and K/O situation is different, given the sphere of politicking that surrounds that. Then again, you hear so much discussion about how deeply Shpilband is politicking for D/W and the feeling that he prefers D/W (and Zoueva prefers V/M) that I can imagine that affecting their friendship.

4. Not getting into the rest except to say that V/M coming in behind D/W could be rationalized away without any "class." Not saying that they would do that.