Who is the greatest ladies figure skater of all time?

I do wonder how the judges would score Ito's 88 Olympic free skate vs Kwan and Lipinski's 98 Olympic free skates (forget that she was 3rd in the free in Calgary, everyone knows that is only because she was way down after figures, not in contention, and not even in the final flight). If there was an all time battle for Olympic medals in ladies skating Kim from Vancouver would trounce all for gold, but there would be alot of possabilities for silver and bronze. And Baiul from 94 wouldnt even be in the top 10 in all time Olympic ladies competition.

Are we using COP or 6.0 for this contest? And we have to construct a fictitious program since in 1988, there were no spiral sequences, and that would be the one element that Ito was significantly worse than Lipinski or Baiul in either case.

In COP PCS, speed is the key to COP success, and Ito skated as fast as the men of her era (and that would be Boitano and Orser, no slouches), which was one of the secrets to the height of her jumps. So in skating skills she definitely beats both of them. Dick says her lutz was bigger than Boitano's

Here's what she did:

layback good position
3lz good edge super height Dick goes crazy +3
3f not as textbook, but fully rotated, and certainly as good as Tara's.
really good combo spin
2A half loop 3s into a lunge. The salchow is a bit sloppy on the landing.
footwork ending in a double jump
===========================jump bonus after this point
spread eagle 3Lp (really good, definitely +2)
immediately into a camel spin
Ina bauer into 3t3t really nice
lousy spiral
forward flying sitspin
tano double of some kind
split 3s
split split 2a
fast spin to end

We don't give her penalties for the throwaway doubles (which we would in COP)

Considering the transitions into her jumps, and considering she did all 5 triples (total 6), and two combinations, one a 2A 3S sequence and a 3t3t, and that she has a forward flying sit, which always scores well, and there is a variation in her camel spin, clearly Baiul is not on the same page with no reasonable combination and double footedness, which COP does not like (which is why people think Kerrigan beat her)

Lets look at Lipinski, who did a lot of stuff. I don't know what we do with the 3 combinations not allowed in COP, but we should give her credit for them, I think.

pivots into layback not great position
2A a little skiddy
3F nice
3flutz2t second jump really small
good combo spin
footwork
resting section
====================Bonus for jumps here===============
3lp3lp both jumps small but really nice and look rotated to me
camel with variations
3flutz
spiral into a pose to rest
3T half loop 3S (3S is a UR call)

So COP, Tara gets 2 edge calls and a UR, so that her third combo does not get the credit she might (credit for 6 full triples and one UR'd one extra) She also does all 5 triples, and scores really well on the 3Lp3Lp. However, she only has 6 jumping passes (which is why I would give her credit for all 3 combinations. Call the second jump of her last combination a 7th pass. Like Ito, her presentation is mostly about enthusiasm and happiness.

So yes, I'd give it to Ito in COP, and as Dick says, speed and power rule in the technical mark in 6.0, Ito gets the technical in 6.0 too. The presentation score in 6.0 is more problematic, but Ito at least gets a tie on it to Lipinski. Given that Ito had a significantly better tech, she wins on my card, but YMMV.

It's really impressive that both ladies had their triple triples in the second half of the program! May I say that the performances of either of these two ladies would have won Worlds this year?

Who knows what the judges would think though. They placed Ito's LP behind Witt's LP of only triple toes and triples salchows, and gave her 5.6s for artistry. Of course I guess that just goes to show it often is best to sidestep judges decisions altogether, as often they are clueless.

Flattfan, Have you ever seen Midori's Rose of Pain 1993 World Pro technical program?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dg3j...14D91993AE220C

Click to expand...

I saw it a while back. Spectacular.
Hopefully there will be someone like her soon. I'll change my name.

I don't know, Flattfan. I'd be willing to bet there's no one like Midori coming around the bend. I think one of her is all we get.

I go with Katarina Witt. Her competitive attitude, expression, commanding figure, capacity to inspire the fans, charisma, skating like a woman and not like just a teen girl ... Being provocative and a great ambassador of the sport throughout the world. All that plus an awesome collection of medals, including two olympic golds, it's great.

If we only look to the technical aspects of the sport maybe we would have to name somebody else as the greatest female skater ever. But when you look at the whole package, Witt wins. I have some friends that know very little about skating but they all remember Witt. Kwan and Ito are probably the only ones that come close to her.