Senior Pairs Free Skate

lavender said:

D/C will probably win but that was an awkward lift at the end. I didn't like the way they executed it.

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I totally agree; that last lift of D/C was absolutely hideous. I liked the headbanger exit though.

I was hoping Rockne and partner would win. But a great beginning for their partnership.

SGrand said:

Good Lord!!!! Women skaters need to learn about HD and they need to know that matching their eyeshadow to their costumes is one of the worst ideas ever and so not necessary.

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Denney's makeup is horrible and also her hair, she is not classy at all.

If Donlan/Speroff got their jumps in order, they'd be podium contenders in a couple years.

Donlan/Speroff looked like a classic Russian Pairs team out there today. If you are going to skate to Tchaikovsky you better bring it and not just skate through the music. Gretchen reminds me a lot of Katia Gordeeva. Now if she can hit her jumps like Katia used to do all the time this team will be something.

I'm sort of pissed that ABC didn't show Donlan/Speroff. Or did I miss it (I taped it and the clock on my VCR was a little wrong, so the tape started AFTER 3). Caydee and John skated well but Caydee looked like a hot mess with that makeup and that fake tan! I'm sad for Amanda and Mark since I was hoping they'd win and they really skate so beautifully, just have problems on the jumps and sometimes throws. Mary Beth and Rockne were pretty good but it's too bad he fell. I guess they are going to worlds with John and Caydee? I haven't checked that thread yet.

blue_idealist said:

I'm sort of pissed that ABC didn't show Donlan/Speroff. Or did I miss it (I taped it and the clock on my VCR was a little wrong, so the tape started AFTER 3). Caydee and John skated well but Caydee looked like a hot mess with that makeup and that fake tan! I'm sad for Amanda and Mark since I was hoping they'd win and they really skate so beautifully, just have problems on the jumps and sometimes throws. Mary Beth and Rockne were pretty good but it's too bad he fell. I guess they are going to worlds with John and Caydee? I haven't checked that thread yet.

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is there a vid somewhere for D/S or Cain/Reagan? i mistakenly thought NBC would air 2 groups of pairs and was crushed when it opened with the fluff piece on musical chair partner switching, though yankowkas looked so lovely and gracious in her interview. she was filmed in HD too and she looked like a pro did _her_ makeup ;p

The pairs competition was lackluster. Donlan/Speroff were my favorite because they have something similar to a classic Russian look, but any jumping element that is a 2A or greater is just treacherous for them literally at every competition. It's a shame because they have made great strides elsewhere.

Denney/Coughlin are not particularly refined (I see some improvement in her though), but it was nice to see at least one team get through all the major elements well while also displaying a calm, mature chemistry between the two of them. For being a new team, I am impressed at how easily they completed everything while also paying attention to how they present the program. Now they just have to develop their programs more (and hopefully work on her hair and makeup).

As I expected, Marley/Brubaker fell off a bit once they got away from the cutesy "Singin' in the Rain" short program that showed off Marley so well. There's one part of their long program where they just hold each other, and it was just so painfully forced. Marley just looks/is too young and immature to have any sort of believable chemistry with him. Still, I was impressed by how confidently they went about the program, despite the mistakes. A lot of their pair elements still need a good bit of work, in particular their twist, death spiral, and lifts. Their score was pretty ridiculous considering what they put out there. However, it was necessary to score them that high since Evora/Ladwig received an equally ridiculous score for their borderline disastrous skate.

And what a shame for E/L. They had the best programs, transitions, lifts, etc, in the competition, but just couldn't hold it together. I'm sure coming in with a real chance to win is not a position they were used to.

Overall, US pairs is still lacking in quality and depth. A team made the podium with a disaster skate, and another team made the podium (well, 4th place, but that's podium in the US) while receiving credit for just 2Ts and 1As. Not great. Luckily Denney/Coughlin skated well because the top 4 that were shown on NBC had falls/glitches all over.

I have never seen Donlan/Speroff before. They have star qualities. They were the most polished pair in the competition. Very impressive. Their elements might not be as difficult as the other pairs, but they got the components down.

What others watching on TV don't realize is Caydee and John are very powerful. They are the fastest. They are powerful. They went after each elements like it was the first element in their program. If you see them live, you would understand why they got the standing O. They might not have the polished looks of D/S, but they have everything else.

E/L, especially E, looked better than D/C. E has exquisite line. But they are so inconsistent. Their elements aren't as big. They were nervous. Their lifts didn't cover nearly as much ice as D/C. They are one of the three pairs I would say have adequate speed. The others are Mary Beth and Rockne and D/C.

Mary Beth is probably better than Caydee as a pair skater, but her partner isn't as good as John.

Caydee's make up, even from far away, looked clownish and ridiculous. Her haircut, dress are just tacky. John's line is equally bad compare to hers. But they just fit together. I don't think John and Caitlin can produce that kind of powerful program even at their best. They are better together than John and Caitlin were.

I have never seen pairs live before, and I enjoy it a lot. Thanks to D/C. Also, pairs are just so much faster than singles and ice dance. D/C are about 1.5x the speed of Meryl and Charlie.

^ That's a really interesting report! I hope I can see a pairs comp live some day.

After D/C's skate, in the kiss and cry, my 6 year old turns to me and asks, "Is that his mom?"
I think that says it all.
I think they knew Caitlin was gonna be there and didn't want anyone to say Caydee was copying Caitlin's look so they chose to leave Caydee's hair down. Didn't she wear it in a bun for the past season? The dress was similar,too.
IMO. I think they wanted to avoid any comparisons. Awkward!
Heartbroken for Amanda and Mark. My favorite team and they(Amanda) just couldn't keep it together. Her dress was gorgeous. I wonder if they're going to keep competing or are just going to retire already. I hope not!

FlattFan said:

Mary Beth is probably better than Caydee as a pair skater, but her partner isn't as good as John.

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You think John Coughlin is a better partner than Rockne Brubaker?
Sorry if I misspelled the names.

I think Donlan/Speroff (the finesse of their skating is wonderful) and Marley/Brubaker can easily become the top two teams in the US in the next two years.
I won't deny that D/C's LP was GREAT, but I just don't see a lot of room for improvement. They are both very athletic skaters which means they can get the points for the hard skills, but they don't do them as well as other teams. I know they could work on polish, but really Caydee...those lift positions...EWWWW, and that's been a problem for the past 3 years already.
FlattFan I disagree with you, I think Rockne is better than John. Today was an off day for him...Mary Beth proved herself today, and it was a BIG step forward for them. They have a lot of room for growth (and I mean that positively since she's so new to pairs...they will get there). Mary Beth definitely still has the cutesy thing going on, but the improvements they made in one year are remarkable. Caydee and John will always be competitive for as long as they continue, but I have doubts about their ability to really be polished and a truly complete package of a pairs team.

I'd also love to see a vid of Cain/Reagan-- if anyones got a link please post or PM me! They are the pair of the future, please just stay together. And as talented as Ashley is in singles, I really hope she puts more concentration into pairs...usually you have to choose one or the other before both fizzle out (Amanda Dobbs comes to mind...)

And I'm sorry but D/S are NOT like a "classic Russian pairs team". Russian pairs can jump (difficult jumps/throws, mind you). If anyones a Russian-esque team its C/R.

Macassar88 said:

Why did Yankowskas and Coughlin split up again?

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Short answer: John planned to retire.

Long answer/speculation as to what resulted...
While it hasn't been confirmed, what I've managed to piece together based on when the announcement of their split took place...Caitlin and John when to Worlds knowing that it would be the end of the road/their final competition. I believe John's true goals were to do well at nationals and go to worlds. Frankly, last season was a story-book ending for him. However, due to the postponement of worlds though, Caitlin couldn't start searching for a partner until mid-April b/c really how awkward would that be if people knew they were going to split up before the competed at Worlds. During that time, Jeremy had decided to retire so Caydee was partnerless and moved to train at the OTC. Once Y/C split had been announced the top two female pairs skaters in the US don't have partners. Since John was healthy and actually works at the OTC, he got talking into trying out with Caydee...and well the chips fell where they did and Denney and Coughlin partnership emerged, leaving Caitlin without a partner, which is so disappointing b/c that girl NEEDS to be on the ice. I really hope she finds some one she can skate with that will result in a truly competitive partnership and that she doesn't just settle, but she is kind of tall, which limits her options. It will be VERY sad if she doesn't find a partner since she was the one who wanted to continue her skating career, but this season she didn't have one because her old partner was supposed to retire and she didn't have the time or the options to find a new one.

I feel badly that Yankowskas had to miss the season and hope she can find a partner. She's on the tall side for pairs, which will make it tougher. She has a gorgeous look to her on the ice. However, I don't think her and John could have gone much further. With Denney, John is already doing much tougher programs than he probably ever could have done with Yankowskas-- harder jumps, harder throws later in the programs, more difficult lifts, etc. It had already taken Yankowskas/Coughlin several years to get where they reached in terms of technical competence, and they still had quite a ways to go. They were behind other teams at this level, for sure, even nationally. For instance, a throw triple sal in the short program puts you in a hole. The beautiful quality of Caitlin's skating made up for a lot of the technical deficiencies, but that can only go so far. If John wants to skate with his alleged girlfriend, who are we to say he is wrong for doing that. If Denney/Coughlin could improve the quality of their lifts, I'd actually find them a very watchable team.

aemeraldrainc said:

You think John Coughlin is a better partner than Rockne Brubaker?
Sorry if I misspelled the names.

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icebeauty said:

FlattFan I disagree with you, I think Rockne is better than John. Today was an off day for him...Mary Beth proved herself today, and it was a BIG step forward for them. They have a lot of room for growth (and I mean that positively since she's so new to pairs...they will get there). Mary Beth definitely still has the cutesy thing going on, but the improvements they made in one year are remarkable. Caydee and John will always be competitive for as long as they continue, but I have doubts about their ability to really be polished and a truly complete package of a pairs team.

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I do. I've seen Rockne and his previous partner fell apart too many times. With Mary Beth, he also had his fair share of bringing them down.
John is more consistent, has more power, presents his partners quite well. That's what you need as a male pair partner, someone who's strong, who doesn't stand out too much, who meshes with his partner.
In term of sheer strength and tricks and consistency, John is better than Rockne.
Like I said, D/C aren't polished, their lines aren't attractive, their packaging is cheap, she looks cheap and crazy with those makeup. What they have is power and presence. They worked the crowd into a frenzy. I didn't care for them, and I was standing cheering by the end. They worked real hard for that one.

I totally loved Donlan & Speroff's program. I so hope they can learn to land at least double axels and 3T's. On IN, they seemed to just have huge speed. Did they in person Flattfan? Everything seemed so BIG. I think they got rooked on PCS.

I also loved Cain and Reagan.

The rest not so much, but D&C attacked their program. I foresee that they will manage top 10 at Worlds, if they skate like this. Top 6? Not without a lot of falling and multiple falling.

gold12345 said:

I feel badly that Yankowskas had to miss the season and hope she can find a partner. She's on the tall side for pairs, which will make it tougher. She has a gorgeous look to her on the ice. However, I don't think her and John could have gone much further. With Denney, John is already doing much tougher programs than he probably ever could have done with Yankowskas-- harder jumps, harder throws later in the programs, more difficult lifts, etc. It had already taken Yankowskas/Coughlin several years to get where they reached in terms of technical competence, and they still had quite a ways to go. They were behind other teams at this level, for sure, even nationally. For instance, a throw triple sal in the short program puts you in a hole. The beautiful quality of Caitlin's skating made up for a lot of the technical deficiencies, but that can only go so far. If John wants to skate with his alleged girlfriend, who are we to say he is wrong for doing that. If Denney/Coughlin could improve the quality of their lifts, I'd actually find them a very watchable team.

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I agree with everything you've said here. The good thing is that even though she didn't have a partner all season, Caitlin continued to train, which is good. I think she mentioned to IN in one of the recent interviews/blogs that she's been taking the singles tests to give her something to do (I doubt she'll actually make the switch), but that does means if she finds the right partner, they could end up doing tougher technical content then she had with John.

And yes, if Caydee and John polish off their lines, especially in their lifts, they will be a very watchable and exciting team to watch. But I seriously don't understand how Caydee has gotten away with those positions for 3 years already (I'll give her a pass for the 2009-2010 season...), also if you watch their LP performance closely, you'll see that John actually tries to stretch and point his toes (look at their sbs sit spin, for example)...Caydee doesn't even look like she's trying, which is what really bothers me.

I re-watched my fav pair Donlan & Speroff's programs again on IN, and though I see improvements from last year, like in speed (still need to work more on it though) & lifts & positions, I'm sincerely worried about their sbs jumps, especially during their FS. I mean even the Junior Pair Teams did 2axels, all of them, even the lower-ranked ones, and the top ones did sbs triple jumps as well. However, what really helps D&S alot is their split-triple-twist and their fabulous throw triple jumps per usual. BUT, if they want to really challenge for a Top 2 placement, let alone 3rd, they need those sbs jumps, which has always been Gretchen's nemesis, unfortunately. They got super lucky this year with C&S's implosion during the FS, otherwise they would have been 5th.

Seriously, Gretchen doing a 1A during the FS is novice level (she won the 2007 Ladies Intermediate Title with a 1A, that was 5 yrs. ago!). I love their skating so much which is why I'm pointing it out. I do have to give them props for the SP though, both landing sbs 3Ts, though they were deemed slightly UR, everything else was perfect. But only doing 2Ts & 1As (Andrew did a big 2A btw) in the FS was glaringly below everybody else, let alone Juniors.

That said, they have been improving. Here's a breakdown of what they've done this past year per my notes:

2011 US Nationals ~ SP = gorgeous split-3-twist, Huge Perfect throw 3S, sbs 2As (hers perfect, his scratchy landing); LP = beautiful split-3-twist, sbs 3Ts (extra turn by her, but done), sbs 2As (fall by her but landed)/2T, Gorgeous Perfect Huge throw 3S, nice throw 3T (slight 2foot).

2011 Indy Challenge ~ SP = fall on sbs 3Ts by both (plus hers UR), near perfect huge throw 3S at end of program, split-3-twist was huge & gorgeous, as well as their lifts.

2011 Liberty Competition ~ LP = new fancy lift & carry into split-3-twist, fall on sbs 3Ts by both (plus hers UR), fall on sbs 2A by her (his huge & perfect)/2T, slight 2foot on throw 3R, slight 2foot on 3S, and missed pair lift by her before trying again. Worst outing.


Actually jump-wise D&S did better at 2011 Nationals, but they improved in everything else this year ~ speed, positions, lifts, et al.

Besides jumps, I'm wondering what else they can do to improve their score? Suggestions anyone? Hmmm, I'm thinking upgrade one of their throws to a throw 3F? and make their lifts a tad more complicated, as well as add arms overhead when doing the split-3-twist to make it more difficult. And of course speed can always be improved. Jmho.

Here's hoping with their pewter medal (yeah! :yay: ) they get an international this year, which they missed out on last year.

dorispulaski said:

I totally loved Donlan & Speroff's program. I so hope they can learn to land at least double axels and 3T's. On IN, they seemed to just have huge speed. Did they in person Flattfan? Everything seemed so BIG. I think they got rooked on PCS.

I also loved Cain and Reagan.

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My first time watching pairs live, so I had really no basis for comparison. I didn't watch the SP, didn't see any junior pairs.
I saw Cain and Reagan and I thought they were quite good.
Then I saw Donlan & Speroff, and thought Cain and Reagan were just average. This was good. Much better. They aren't slow. They had about the same speed as Cain and Reagan but Cain and Reagan covered the ice just a hair better. The top 3 teams are faster than them with D/C the fastest. They are a bit faster than Marissa and Simon.
I thought their PCS would be higher, and was surprised they only got 2 points or so above Cain and Reagan in PCS. I would put them 4-5 points above Cain and Reagan.

D/C had the best performance of the night, but D/S had the best programs of the night.

Between D/C and D/S, D/S should win CH, IN. D/C win SS, TR, and win big on PE.