ISU World Team Trophy, April 2012, Tokyo | Page 3 | Golden Skate

ISU World Team Trophy, April 2012, Tokyo

MarkusNJ said:
I am hoping that the skaters who are participating in the singles mens and ladies, pairs, and dance are not allowed to compete, and that it is the 4th place finishers!
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Well, then you would have skaters like the Canadian ladies competing to NOT have the singles spot. :)

Although it looks like they are doing that already...
 
Regards the Olympic Team Event, every country should bring their best! :thumbsup:

It wouldn't be right for the lowest ranked member of the team to win a gold medal whilst their higher ranked team member did not. Jmho.
 
drivingmissdaisy said:
I sincerely hope at the Olympics they do something to make the team event more interesting. I for one would like for them to require different programs than the individual events, and perhaps even change up the the required elements for the team program.

Another issue that needs to be resolved is the factoring of the PCS. If country A has a male skater that gets 8's in PCS and a female skater that gets 7's, while country B has a male skater that gets 7's and a female who gets 8's, country A will already be ahead because male skaters' PCS is adjusted higher than the female skaters'. I'm thinking some type of ordinal system would be fair here, so you would reward a team with across-the-board excellence rather than having one outstanding athlete inflating the score of a mediocre team.
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Never thought of this before, ITA! :thumbsup:
 
I believe that that details of the Olympic team event are still being worked out. Anyway, their has been no official announcement yet.

From past speculation it appears that countries qualify, not individuals, and then the country has the option of using the same skaters for the team event as for the individual competitions, or using different skaters. So for instance Joannie Rochette could come back just to skate in the team competition and skip the individuals.
 
drivingmissdaisy said:
I sincerely hope at the Olympics they do something to make the team event more interesting. I for one would like for them to require different programs than the individual events, and perhaps even change up the the required elements for the team program.

Another issue that needs to be resolved is the factoring of the PCS. If country A has a male skater that gets 8's in PCS and a female skater that gets 7's, while country B has a male skater that gets 7's and a female who gets 8's, country A will already be ahead because male skaters' PCS is adjusted higher than the female skaters'. I'm thinking some type of ordinal system would be fair here, so you would reward a team with across-the-board excellence rather than having one outstanding athlete inflating the score of a mediocre team.
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IIRC, I don't think this is an issue because it won't be the total scores that decide the placements but rather the total of points given for individual placements from each team. A win in any discipline is worth the same points regardless of its margin of victory over the 2nd place or another team's win in a different discipline. Similarly, the difference in COP totals between 2nd and 3rd place is irrelevant. In Japan Open, it was the total COP points of each team that decides the placements so a single strong or weak skater or performance can make or break a team. For the Team Trophy, it will be the placements points totals that matter.

Somebody straighten me out if I am wrong in this.
 
^ That's for the Team Trophy event, right? I believe the Olympic team thing has not yet been worked out. (?)
 
Mathman said:
^ That's for the Team Trophy event, right? I believe the Olympic team thing has not yet been worked out. (?)
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I thought they work on the same principle, being tried out at the TT the year before the Olympics. I can see the total scores used as a tie breaker though.
 
SkateFiguring said:
IIRC, I don't think this is an issue because it won't be the total scores that decide the placements but rather the total of points given for individual placements from each team. A win in any discipline is worth the same points regardless of its margin of victory over the 2nd place or another team's win in a different discipline. Similarly, the difference in COP totals between 2nd and 3rd place is irrelevant. In Japan Open, it was the total COP points of each team that decides the placements so a single strong or weak skater or performance can make or break a team. For the Team Trophy, it will be the placements points totals that matter.

Somebody straighten me out if I am wrong in this.
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Thanks for this, sounds fair. :cool:

A country has to be strong in ALL disciplines in order to win, less so to medal. Jmho.

Hmmm, I'm sure everybody thinks Russia has the greatest chance to win, but I'm not so sure. None of their disciplines is rock solid, like leaps & bounds & trampolines in front of everybody else.

Nope, the Team Competition will actually be the hardest to take gold imho. The USA has just as much chance as Russia for gold. They're good in all discplines, just like Russia.

I'll know more depending on what happenes during the next two years before Sochi. That's when we'll see if the Russian wonderbabies pan out or not, same with Gracie Gold and Agnes Zawadzki, et al. And how much better Denney & Coughlin can get. Also, still awaiting Evan Lysacek's return, which he *must* make next season, or all bets are off. Without his consistency the USA's chances are drastically reduced. :(

Will be interesting to track & observe everybody's progress between now & Sochi. :think:
 
Is the idea for the team medals at the Oly's that they would be given out based on placements in the individual disciplines? Or would the countries that qualify send skaters to skate an extra program(s)?
 
^ They would skate extra programs. And I believe that the team members could be different from the individual competitors. Also I think you can have a short program expert and a long program expert to do the two segments.

I believe that there is an IOC rule that says you can't give out extra team medals for individual performances that have already happened.
 
That's going to be a lot of figure skating, which I'm thrilled about, but I imagine the dance teams don't look forward to 5 nights of competition. In fact, I think some disciplines will have to skate back to back days, because you have 2 nights each for team, ladies, men and pairs, 3 for dance, and then the exhibition, totaling 12.

Having different short vs long program skaters seems silly to me. Certainly there are skaters who skate better in the short, but they aren't doing different elements than they are in the long (just more of them). And the fact that they crumble in the long (or the short) I think has to do more with the psychological aspect of holding a lead rather than any particular aspect of the program itself. I guess if you had someone with a repertoire of a couple of very difficult jumps, they could do the short, but it would still seem to be better to put in your best all around skaters.
 
I like the idea of WTT after Worlds. The individual Champions have been decided and skaters get a chance to earn nice prize money in a more relaxed and fun atmosphere. Some non champions get to a chance to be part of a champion team and earn the same prize as individual champions for a change.

As an additional event at the Olympics, it will be tough on the skaters. I particularly don't like the team event being held before the regular competitions.

drivingmissdaisy, the Dancers are only doing the Short and the Free Dance these days. As for different skaters for SP and LP, it's an advantage to use some great jumper/skater with stamina problems e.g. Brezina and Hanyu, for the SP. The all round and fit skaters can stay fresh for the LP. This may work out well for some nations with deep talent pools or particular skaters who make a good tag team.
 
Here is what Phil Hersh wrote last year about the Olympic team event. It includes quotes from Mr. Cinquanta regarding how the event might might be organized.

What Cinquanta imagines is a situation where, for example, the United States finishes second in the team event with Jeremy Abbott as its men's skater and then another U.S. man, Evan Lysacek, goes on to win individual gold with a score that would have made the difference in the team event. That would, Cinquanta hopes, lead to a publicity-attracting controversy about lineups, like lineup discussions in traditional team sports.

``This would be something spicy,'' Cinquanta said.
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http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...nt-womens-ski-jumping-new-olympic-events.html
 
^^^^ Scoring was still supposed to be cumulative then. But I did read differently about it later. All in all, it will be tough on the skaters during the Olympics.

So Speedy likes some controversies. He would probably like the frienemy plot I suggested for V/M and D/W on the Dance thread. ;)
 
This is all so confusing, why don't they just make it cut & dried, instead of adding substitutes, different skaters for the SP, LP, et al. That's just ridiculous, all for strategy. :rolleye:

Just let each country that qualifies select their best skaters and be done with it. In Gymnastics, that's how it's done, you don't have one gymnast doing floor, another doing beam, another vault, and yet another uneven bars. :disapp: No, *each* gymnast on the Team competes in each event, not just one or two, that's ridiculous.

I hope they figure it out, and most importantly test it out before 2014, which the article does reference that the ISU may test it out at Worlds before Sochi, which only leaves 2013 Worlds, correct?

Whatever the case, they have to get it straightened out, no mickey mouse tick tack toe tatics. Make it fair, organized, and professional like other Teams do (see Gymnastics for reference).

That said, I know for the TEAM event I don't want a skater on there that is not consistent, that would be the kiss of death! :eek: I don't care if they have the potential to score high, when it comes to the TEAM one wants a player that can contribute to the overall point total, not decimate it with a horrible skate. It's about the Team afterall, not an individual. Jmho. :)
 
Having the team event take place first is wrong. At this point an individual Oly gold is the what every skater wants. To make them skate in a team competition first is unfair, so much risk of injury or just wearing themselves out. I'm sure we'll see most teams have skaters only skate 1 program to minimize that. Also that gets the most number of skaters on the team yielding the most potential Olympic Medalists

Also not super excited about seeing programs repeated. If they're gonna skate extra times how about something fresh - maybe an 'Olympic Program'. Could be medium length with only triple/quad jumps and level 4 elements scored and plus a multiplier on PCS to give them more weight.
 
I saw tulosai asking this question. Does anyone know the answer?
tulosai said:
The only real question, as I understand it, is whether they will need to send the two with the current highest world ranking (Alissa/Mirai) or the two with the highest season ranking (Alissa/Ashley).
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Honestly, I don't think the ISU even knows the answer. Nadine asks why it's so confusing. Honestly, the confusion benefits the ISU more than the federations or the skaters.

I'm mixed about the team event in general
 
^^^ According to the ISU Council's directive as quoted in the OP, it's the World ranking and latest World Championships (top 10) that count.
 
So if there are two skaters, skater A finishes higher at the Worlds but has a lower WR, and skater B finishes lower at the Worlds but has a higher WR, then who goes to the World Team Trophy? Will skaters be selected based on WR or Worlds result?

For instance, Leonova and Makarova are Russia’s two ladies with highest WR, but if Polina Korobeynikova finishes higher than Makarova at the Worlds, then who goes to the WTT? Leonova/Makarova or Leonova/Korobeynikova?
 
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