Patrick Chan Parts Ways With Christy Krall

mmcdermott · Apr 17, 2012

let`s talk said:
The timing is a little strange. He will have to skate at WTT in a couple of days. Of course it's just a fun event as some people might think. But I am sure this coach split news could have waited till Monday.

I was thinking the same thing, but then, people would probably wonder why Krall wasn't with him at WTT. What I wonder is why they didn't announce it sooner, when Patrick and his parents would be available to speak to the media. Or maybe that's exactly why they waited until now.

Dragonlady · Apr 17, 2012

mikiandorocks said:
Lori has been his choreographer for the past seasons (as far as I remember) and maybe it's time to change that. David Wilson would be an excellent choice.

I seriously doubt that Patrick will change choreographers. Lori Nichol is his last connection to Mr. Colson. He specifically went to Don Laws because Laws was one of Colson's students, as was Lori Nichol.

Violet Bliss · Apr 17, 2012

mmcdermott said:
I was thinking the same thing, but then, people would probably wonder why Krall wasn't with him at WTT. What I wonder is why they didn't announce it sooner, when Patrick and his parents would be available to speak to the media. Or maybe that's exactly why they waited until now.

Coaches will not be at WTT.

There is always something to stress out Patrick at every international event this season, so WTT won't be an exception, but I think the worst impact of the coaching change already happened at Worlds though the official resignation happened the day after.

slipslidin · Apr 17, 2012

Serious Business said:
The biggest challenge to Patrick Chan's ongoing standing in the results is still how the ISU will change the rules/judging between this past season and the next one. Now I'm sure changing coaches is no picnic for Patrick in his private life. But really, his career has survived more dramatic coaching changes before. It's the inevitable rule/judging changes, ones that will be targeted directly at Patrick Chan as a result of the controversy and booing and bellyaching surrounding his scores, that will alter his career trajectory the most. If Patrick wants to continue to stay on top, he had best focus on remedying the top criticism leveled at him: his falling. It's very likely the scores will take a lot less kindly to it in the future. Focusing on his artistry is all well and good, but if he wants to win he best meet the haters head on.

This looks like the truth of Patrick's situation.

Artistry is often in the eye of the beholder, perhaps his music choices have been a little hokey, and the interpretation a bit this side of subtle, but his wonderful skill never fails to bring tears to my eyes. Also, keeping programs for more than one year gives people more time to find things to dislike in them.

ice coverage · Apr 17, 2012

mmcdermott said:
... people would probably wonder why Krall wasn't with him at WTT. ...

SkateFiguring said:
Coaches will not be at WTT. ...

I too was rationalizing that Krall's absence in Japan would have raised eyebrows. Is it unusual for coaches to travel to WTT?
A tweet and photo from Adam Rippon on Apr 15 certainly suggest that Yuka Sato traveled with him to Japan. The caption: "A delayed flight won't get Yuka's spirits down!" http://twitter.com/#!/Adaripp/status/191651227224903680

Boeing787 · Apr 17, 2012

I also thought coaches don't show up in WTT. At least I didn't see them on TV at last WTT. Maybe Yuka just wants to use this opportunity to visit her homeland?

chloepoco · Apr 17, 2012

Boeing787 said:
I also thought coaches don't show up in WTT. At least I didn't see them on TV at last WTT. Maybe Yuka just wants to use this opportunity to visit her homeland?

I thought there was one coach for the team (I could be wrong, but)--so maybe Yuka is the coach for the US Team?

That is a really cute picture of her that Adam tweeted!

Violet Bliss · Apr 17, 2012

I guess coaches wouldn't be barred but there is no K&C but "condos" for cheerleading team members. Skaters save the expenses of having their coaches with them but have comradery for support.

eta. I don't know if there are team coaches but there are team captains/leaders.

Boeing787 · Apr 17, 2012

Dragonlady said:
I seriously doubt that Patrick will change choreographers. Lori Nichol is his last connection to Mr. Colson. He specifically went to Don Laws because Laws was one of Colson's students, as was Lori Nichol.

I just don't think it's wise to make multiple changes at one time.

Violet Bliss · Apr 17, 2012

Whatever criticisms and insults some people throw at Lori Nichols, she is a proven champion maker whom top skaters flock to. Why mess with a winning formula? Unless she and Krall are a package deal. Johnson did take over Nichols' role as the artistic coach.

I would like Patrick to experiment with his ex programs and his SP, but LP choreography is too important to leave to someone less familiar with his skills and not the top COP expert that Nichols is, especially at this time of coaching change.

Boeing787 · Apr 17, 2012

skatefiguring said:
whatever criticisms and insults some people throw at lori nichols, she is a proven champion maker whom top skaters flock to. Why mess with a winning formula? Unless she and krall are a package deal. Johnson did take over nichols' role as the artistic coach.

I would like patrick to experiment with his ex programs and his sp, but lp choreography is too important to leave to someone less familiar with his skills and not the top cop expert that nichols is, especially at this time of coaching change.

ita.

Mathman · Apr 17, 2012

Here is what the official announcement says about coaches.

All additional team members (one Team Leader per team, one Coach per Skater, maximum 2 Team Medical Staff and maximum 2 Team Officials) must be entered by using the respective Entry Form Composition of Delegation.

Boeing787 · Apr 17, 2012

Mathman said:
Here is what the official announcement says about coaches.

Thanks. So it explains why Krall's resignation was announced before WTT. Evidently her contract with Patrick ended right after worlds. So Kathy accompanied Patrick to Japan?

wallylutz · Apr 17, 2012

silverlake22 said:
Well this certainly shakes things up going into Sochi, just going to make the odds better for Hanyu or someone else to take advantage of the situation, sneak in and snatch gold from Chan. I thought Chan would be staying with Krall until after Sochi. Anyways, I doubt he'll keep his winning streak up if he doesn't hire a new coach by the time the season starts. All skaters need a coach, I don't care how good they are.

Still can't resist the fireworks temptation I guess. I suspect as much that when this announcement goes public, that some people just won't be able to contain their joy in seeing Patrick Chan going through a tough time emotionally. I can think of at least 10 reasons why another skater may be unable to continue skating but it just wouldn't be nice to make such speculation. Though you never know, the nature is unpredictable and uncontrollable.

wallylutz · Apr 17, 2012

Serious Business said:
The biggest challenge to Patrick Chan's ongoing standing in the results is still how the ISU will change the rules/judging between this past season and the next one. Now I'm sure changing coaches is no picnic for Patrick in his private life. But really, his career has survived more dramatic coaching changes before. It's the inevitable rule/judging changes, ones that will be targeted directly at Patrick Chan as a result of the controversy and booing and bellyaching surrounding his scores, that will alter his career trajectory the most. If Patrick wants to continue to stay on top, he had best focus on remedying the top criticism leveled at him: his falling. It's very likely the scores will take a lot less kindly to it in the future. Focusing on his artistry is all well and good, but if he wants to win he best meet the haters head on.

You make it sound as though major rule overhaul specifically targeting Patrick Chan is a done deal. Really, "inevitable rule changes that will be targeted at Patrick Chan"? How did you come up with that? And how do you target him? For falling on a Double Axel? Notwithstanding that error was already severely punished, more so than a usual fall because it received a zero base value + deductions, most falls don't receive zero base value as in the case of say a fall on a 4T, the total value of the element could still worth as much as a Triple Lutz.

If the ISU chose to modify penalty for falling, I think it would be totally fair. I happen to agree with many people who feel that falls aren't punished severely enough, whether on an element or otherwise. In fact, if it was up to me, I think the mandatory deduction on falling should be consistent with the number of seconds that was lost due to falling. Quick up and down fall like Patrick had should cost him -4 while Hanyu's fall should cost him -7 for taking longer to recuperate. Or someone who fell 3 times like Takahashi at Japanese Nationals should be thrown off the podium no matter what and missed the World team as a result.

The bottom line is I find somewhat hysterical that you choose to characterize such rule change, if it were to happen, as being targeted towards Patrick Chan. I feel that's quite disrespectful. Whether you feel the result was controversial or not is your perception, not a statement of fact. Purposely repeating it here and elsewhere over and over as though it's true is simply quite unethical thing to do. Plus, everyone falls and Chan doesn't fall more often than other elite male skaters, all of whom have fell several times this season, if you add all the instances across their competitions this past season. But somehow falling is attributed to him alone as though he is the only one is just plain unfair. Finally, if such rule change were to take place, I am sure Patrick Chan and other fair minded skaters will welcome it. But one thing for sure, for certain fans, they better watch out what they wish for.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 17, 2012

SkateFiguring said:
Whatever criticisms and insults some people throw at Lori Nichols, she is a proven champion maker whom top skaters flock to. Why mess with a winning formula? Unless she and Krall are a package deal. Johnson did take over Nichols' role as the artistic coach.

I would like Patrick to experiment with his ex programs and his SP, but LP choreography is too important to leave to someone less familiar with his skills and not the top COP expert that Nichols is, especially at this time of coaching change.

I think this is worth debating. Is Nichols really more of a top COP expert than David Wilson? Than Ingo Steuer? Than Tom Dickson?

Olympia · Apr 17, 2012

How can one compare? I think Nichol (I believe there's no s at the end of her name) is among the top CoP choreographers in the world. We could parse her results and those of Wilson and others endlessly, but the fact is that you might find someone as good as Lori, but you won't find anyone better. To try to rank her in relation with other skaters is not a road I want to travel.

Certainly Evan Lysacek and Shen/Zhao have reason to be grateful to her, as does Michelle Kwan. I'm sure that if Chan considers leaving her, he'll give it a lot of thought before acting on it.

Though of course if the thought of debating this brings light into your eyes, go for it!

Violet Bliss · Apr 17, 2012

wallylutz said:
You make it sound as though major rule overhaul specifically targeting Patrick Chan is a done deal. Really, "inevitable rule changes that will be targeted at Patrick Chan"? How did you come up with that? And how do you target him? For falling on a Double Axel? Notwithstanding that error was already severely punished, more so than a usual fall because it received a zero base value + deductions, most falls don't receive zero base value as in the case of say a fall on a 4T, the total value of the element could still worth as much as a Triple Lutz.

If the ISU chose to modify penalty for falling, I think it would be totally fair. I happen to agree with many people who feel that falls aren't punished severely enough, whether on an element or otherwise. In fact, if it was up to me, I think the mandatory deduction on falling should be consistent with the number of seconds that was lost due to falling. Quick up and down fall like Patrick had should cost him -4 while Hanyu's fall should cost him -7 for taking longer to recuperate. Or someone who fell 3 times like Takahashi at Japanese Nationals should be thrown off the podium no matter what and missed the World team as a result.

The bottom line is I find somewhat hysterical that you choose to characterize such rule change, if it were to happen, as being targeted towards Patrick Chan. I feel that's quite disrespectful. Whether you feel the result was controversial or not is your perception, not a statement of fact. Purposely repeating it here and elsewhere over and over as though it's true is simply quite unethical thing to do. Plus, everyone falls and Chan doesn't fall more often than other elite male skaters, all of whom have fell several times this season, if you add all the instances across their competitions this past season. But somehow falling is attributed to him alone as though he is the only one is just plain unfair. Finally, if such rule change were to take place, I am sure Patrick Chan and other fair minded skaters will welcome it. But one thing for sure, for certain fans, they better watch out what they wish for.

I have repeatedly pointed out the folly of such targeted rule changes which would most likely hurt some very beloved skaters of the proponents, if only ISU would be as foolhardily prejudicial and irrational. As a Chan fan, I always say, bring it on. Others will pay.

When proposals popped up all over the Alissa thread on how she should and could be prevented to compete at Worlds again with targeted tweaking of the US Nationals judging, I recognized the preposterousness could be equal opportunity.

gkelly · Apr 17, 2012

wallylutz said:
If the ISU chose to modify penalty for falling, I think it would be totally fair.

Well, it depends what the modifications are. Depending how a change is worded, it might be appropriate for senior men but disastrous for novice ladies, or vice versa. Or, more likely, produce results that the majority of viewers prefer on some occasions and other times result in what appear to be even greater travesties.

I happen to agree with many people who feel that falls aren't punished severely enough, whether on an element or otherwise. In fact, if it was up to me, I think the mandatory deduction on falling should be consistent with the number of seconds that was lost due to falling.

Yes, something along those lines has been tried in ice dance (ca. 1998-2004 anyway).

Or someone who fell 3 times like Takahashi at Japanese Nationals should be thrown off the podium no matter what

How do you write that rule? Word it carefully. Just saying that anyone who falls X number of times is forbidden to medal, regardless of what happens in the rest of the program or the rest of the field is bound to backfire sometimes.

Suppose a small competition that turns into a splatfest, everybody falls at least X times -- is the best of the bad lot awarded 4th place with the podium positions left empty?

If top-level skater enters a lower-level event as a warmup or practice run with a new program, or s/he needs to qualify for some reason, etc., what happens if s/he falls X times but still manages to complete significantly more technical content than anyone else in the event and also starts out with much higher program components?

Do pairs get a higher value for X?

I can see something like making the cost of a second fall greater than the first, of a third greater than the second, etc. I can also see factoring the fall deduction so that whole disciplines or individual skaters who start with higher base values higher PCS will lose more total points per fall than those who start with lower scores (instead of, as it is now, skaters with lower start values end up losing a larger percentage of that value per fall).

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 17, 2012

Olympia said:
How can one compare? I think Nichol (I believe there's no s at the end of her name) is among the top CoP choreographers in the world. We could parse her results and those of Wilson and others endlessly, but the fact is that you might find someone as good as Lori, but you won't find anyone better. To try to rank her in relation with other skaters is not a road I want to travel.

Certainly Evan Lysacek and Shen/Zhao have reason to be grateful to her, as does Michelle Kwan. I'm sure that if Chan considers leaving her, he'll give it a lot of thought before acting on it.

Though of course if the thought of debating this brings light into your eyes, go for it!

My thought is this: figure skating is a language. Skaters are actors/performers. Choreographers are writers/directors.

If James Stewart stuck with Frank Capra only, we wouldn't have had Vertigo, Rear Window, The Philadelphia Story, The Naked Spur, The Shop Around the Corner etc. I will also point out, though, that Nichol's not merely Chan's choreographer, but was (if not is) one of Chan's listed coaches.

Patrick Chan Parts Ways With Christy Krall

mmcdermott

Dragonlady

Violet Bliss

slipslidin

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

Boeing787

chloepoco

Violet Bliss

Boeing787

Violet Bliss

Boeing787

Mathman

Boeing787

wallylutz

wallylutz

ImaginaryPogue

Olympia

Violet Bliss

gkelly

ImaginaryPogue

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