Joesitz said:
I thought someone would have started this thread sooner than I.
I missed all the guys except Michael. I'm sure there was nothing special about what I missed.
The Ladies, however, I found to be quite good and better than I expec tyed.
MK continues to show more speed and energy.
Irina is getting back in form. She will be fine for Moscow.
Shizuka skated with much more flare than she did in Dortmund but that may be why she lacked her technical perfection.
Sasha, indeed it was her night. It was more or less the same as she skated in the Qualifying Round in Dortmund. Loved it!!
Now those fans who were complaining about Robin's revised choreography.....do you still believe TT's was better?
Miki Ando is quite a jumper and covers the ice well with speed and energy. She could be ready in 2006.
Joe
I think the delay in posting was due to it being Mother's Day. As Jenny so heartbreakingly reminded us, Moms come before skating. As others have said, that poor girl. With many cancers being "beaten," especially if caught early, sometimes it's easy to forget that there are still whole families descimated by this disease. I think we'd all agree that Jenny deserves a gold medal in courage.
As for the gauntlet you have thrown down, "Now those fans who were complaining about Robin's revised choreography......do you still believe TT's was better?" Since I was one of the most vocal against RW's "Swan Lake" (I called it "Swan Puddle" after Worlds) and was a big fan of TAT's version, all six of them, if you count the RW supervised version of TAT's at Nationals, I will speak to this--or hang my butt out the window, whichever you prefer
.
The most important things first: Sasha's costume (same as Worlds). So Sasha's new swan costume was done by some hoity-toity designer. Hmm. Obviously it is someone not familiar with how costumes show up on the ice nor on the ice and TV. I thought the black and white costume for TAT's version was a gorgeous costume and also really told the story of "Swan Lake" by using that one simple color technique. However, I could have liked a non black-and-white costume, just not this one. But it seemed they shortened the skirt slightly or did some refitting because it didn't look as dumpy on Sasha at Marshall's. Or else I was just over the shock. And not to pick on Sasha's designer. Vera Wang has done some bombs too, IMO. Jef Billings of SOI looks like he won't have as much SOI work next year. Now that guy knows how to put a skating costume together. He did Sarah's for the Olympics. Let's leave the designers to the runway and people like Billings to the ice, I say. BTW, I still think Shizza's costume was da bomb this season. Forgetting the World's wedgie, I thought the cut was gorgeous and the silver sequins just perfect. Somebody else said it looked like the Chrysler Building and ITA. Great architecture for the building and for Shizuka.
Onto "Swan Lake": TAT vs. WAG. Since I've gotten over the shock of what WAG did to TAT's version of "SL" and seeing Sasha skate it well, I have to give WAG's version a lot more credit. Last night I compared TAT's "SL" from Trophee Lalique--the best TAT version, IMO--to WAG's version with Sasha's crummy skate at Worlds to WAG's version with Sasha's good performance at Marshall's. Someone who was at Dortmund, Hockeyfan, said he felt WAG's version utilized ice coverage better than TAT's, that WAG's excelled in using different kinds of stroking, and that s/he felt the program built to a climax better. After doing my comparison last night, ITA. I can't tell ice coverage from TV, but variety of stroking, yes, and better build to climax, yes.
Also, when I watched TAT's version from Trophee Lalique, which was skated well--just a hand down on the 2Axel and a two-foot on a jump late in the program--and compared it to a good skate of WAG's version, I surprised the hell out of myself to find myself not as "for" TAT's version and "against" WAG's as I had thought just a month ago when I looked at them both right after Worlds. I think where TAT's version excelled and why I loved it so much is that it was more like DANCE choreography than competitive singles SKATING choreography and because of that, it had an especially unusual and captivating look. And although I was impressed with how "chuggy jam" it was with choreography and difficulty, I think TAT's version may have been too much so in that because of the glide and speed of skating, your eye needs more time to register movement than it does for dance. I do still love TAT's version, especially the one done at Lalique. But the choreography has to fit the skater and I think that for Sasha, there was too much choreography and difficult skating moves for Sasha's personality to come through. I felt the same way about Lori Nichol's "Song of the Black Swan" for Michelle. No, I'm not trying to bring Michelle in here for no reason, lol. I'm using it because most know it and I think it makes a good comparison for the point I'm trying to make. Besides, there are programs for other skaters I feel didn't fit the skater or got too busy--or too simple. To use a cliche, it's a delicate balance. With SOTBS, IMO, there was too much choreography that Michelle couldn't really get on top of, even at Worlds. It looked to me like Michelle was skating a race to finish the program rather than alternating tough skating and choreography with periods of expression. When I looked back at Sasha doing TAT/SL at Lalique, even though I loved the choreographic in-betweens and difficulty (eg, three combo spins), the overall impression when I looked at it after having seen Sasha do a good skate of WAG/SL was that with TAT/SL at Lalique, Sasha was doing a megathalon skate the way track-and-field athletes do the decathalon. Okay, here's the first set of tough jumps and jump combos. Whew. Got through that. Now the camel into the BC spin into the arabesque, fan, and catch-foot turning spiral. Whew. Now the big time choreography into the 2Axel. Whoa! Hand down! And on and on until she had jumped through hoop after hoop of the program rather than having "dense" sections of skating and choreographic difficulty intertwined with cleaner, simpler sections where she could express herself. In TAT/SL Lalique, there was only one short "rest" spot where Sasha just glided along in attitude after some ballet-like steps. Although I hate the "stand around and emote" sections some skaters depend on, I think a program and the skater benefits from a couple of sections where your eye can catch up to what's going on.
At the time of Lalique I thought, "If Sasha could do this version with secure jumps, good energy and passion, and mistake free, she'll blow the roof off any place she skates." But looking back on TAT/SL compared to WAG/SL, there was more to WAG's "puddle" than I'd thought after viewing it only once and then again right afterwards on tape. True, WAG did take out a lot of the choreography and difficulty of the spins and spiral sequence compared to TAT. However, WAG replaced about two-thirds of the choreography she removed with different choreography that was more about holding the edge, speed, and line whereas TAT's was about turns in different directions combined with different leg moves, ie, more like what you would see in ice dancing.
One of the biggest differences was in the spins. TAT/SL at Lalique had three combo spins: camel/BC early on; sit spin with leg to the side into fwd scratch with arm variation about midway (and that's tough coming up from a full squat into that fwd scratch); and the final sit spin, layback, half-Biellmann catch foot spin. Plus the layback. WAG/SL only had the layback; the sit spin, layback, BC; and right after it, the fwd scratch with arm variation. I think this was a strategic move on WAG's part to keep Sasha's energy up throughout the program. Sasha has had problems with endurance. She's talked about it. There was nothing RW could do about it between December and Worlds. Spins take up a LOT of energy and even though Sasha's spins can be downright spectacular, under the OBO system of scoring, they don't rate much. TAT, OTOH, was working with COP, where spins count for a lot more. Hence I think each choreographer designed the program with the scoring system in mind, plus RW, IMO, set herself the task of getting Sasha to do a mistake free seven triple program, so energy conservation was a key point.
Another big change from TAT/SL Lalique was the FW. Only at Lalique did Sasha do serpentine FW, which included a Russian split. It was glorious--in and of itself. But again, considering Sasha's problems and the OBO system, I think RW's straightline FW was actually better, at least the way Sasha skated it at Marshall's, than TAT's serpentine FW at Lalique. Sasha didn't look overtaxed or out of breath, but the serpentine FW at Lalique had no fireworks moments other than the Russian split, which she did with minimal energy, though still with full amplitude. Speaking of splits, much has been made of why change from Russian split for split falling leaf, especially since Sasha's back leg is bent on the latter. We'd had to ask RW, but one reason could be is that choreographically the shape of the split falling leaf complements the Charlotte that comes right after it. Also, it could be that RW wanted to stay away from too many of Sasha's "same old tricks." The judges know Sasha has a phenomenal Russian split. They haven't seen her do a falling leaf. If she's going to get a good split falling leaf, she's got to start doing them. Sasha does have to fix that bent back knee, but it still shows her strength and flexibility, and now her versatility. My only worry is that RW has a lousy record of fixing bent back knees, ie, Sarah's bent knee on the free leg in her arabesque spiral. And getting a straight knee in a full split leap is tough for reasons I won't bore you with except to say it will feel straight when it's actually bent. My opinion on Russian vs. falling leaf: Too much ado about something that made no difference.
This is too long already, but I will just mention quickly that watching both the World's and Marshall's tapes of WAG/SL (same choreography, different performance) that I noticed that at least half the triple jumps had FW, choreography, or turns going into them so I think RW is thinking ahead to COP; that a lot of places where I thought Sasha had been doing "something" in TAT/SL and "nothing" in WAG/SL, all Sasha had been doing in TAT/SL was some arm positions while she was stroking and during WAG/SL, Sasha was doing more intricate stroking but without the detailed arm positions. I think WAG was smart to go with the latter. It's where Sasha needs work. It's where she can build both stronger technique from and more interesting choreography without having to use as much energy.
Getting near the end, hang in there--or not, lol. The other thing I thought was VERY different between TAT/SL, every version, and WAG/SL Marshall's was the jumps. FINALLY someone, RW, is addressing the fundamental problems in Sasha's jump technique. Whatever you feel about Sarah's skating, she was consistent in her jumping second only to Michelle. Every jump Sasha did at Marshall's except the 2Axel was solid as a rock. I couldn't see her entrance edge on her Lutz very well from the camera angle--that's another thing RW never fixed with Sarah, her flutz***--but she had difficult entrances to a number of her jumps and jump combos and she checked, she flowed, she had that "Michelle" look as if you couldn't knock her down. To me, this is huge. Without solid jumps, Sasha can pack it in. Looking at all of Sasha's performances of TAT/SL through the GP series, even her best ones, she had virtually no solid jumps. The free hip opened up, she two-footed, or she just didn't look secure during any part of the jump. I know the quality of the jumps are not the choreography and RW kept basically the same jump layout as TAT, but at Worlds it was in the SP that Sasha's jumps were great--and her passion too. Without solid jumps, it almost doesn't matter what the choreography is because he tension around, "Is she going to fall?" and just the tension of watching insecure jumps takes a lot away from the impact of the choreography. Michelle's incredible consistency in her jumps IMO has helped her make many of her programs so memorable. When you're secure about the jumps, then you can put your heart into the choreography. Without that security, even if you land all the jumps, the performance is nervous and flat.
FINALLY, the big finish. Originally I liked TAT's approach, but when I watched it again last night, TAT/SL simply didn't have enough time to build in drama and excitement. WAG/SL started building with the FW; went up a notch with what everybody always says they want, the "wow" spiral held for a long time; kept up he pace with the combo spin (love or hate the BC spin, it's an amazing feat that Sasha does better than anyone); and then I think added a "sparkler" at the end with the fwd scratch/arm variations. True, that fwd scratch is not as effective without the black and white costume, but I think for a competitive OBO program, WAG/SL beats TAT/SL, which I never thought I'd say. I think TAT/SL is a better DANCE, but that's not what's being judged.
As for Sasha's performance, TAT/SL looked bad when Sasha skated poorly just as WAG/SL looked bad when Sasha tanked. No news there. I do agree that in TAT/SL if Sasha only lands three triples, there's a lot of other things to look at and be impressed by whereas with WAG/SL if Sasha falls on four triples, there's not as much "wow" stuff there. But TAT's strength was using what a skater did well and hiding what they didn't do well. But Kulik and Yags could jump like nobody's business. The problem with Sasha is that her jumps were everybody's business except her own. She did not own them. A skater who doesn't own her jumps can't compete at the most elite level and be really passionate in her performance. Whatever WAG does for Sasha in terms of choreography in the future, at least right now it looks as if she has done thing Sasha needed most--significantly improve her jump technique.
Bottom line: I love the aesthetics of TAT/SL, but as a competitive program, even under COP, I think it got too busy and lost its focus. Also, the choreography became more important than the skater. Yes, you want to make the choreography a challenge for the skater, but IMO you don't want the skater going out there time after time unable to (a) skate it clean, and (b) skate it with any feeling. Do I think WAG/SL is a great piece of choreography? Hell no! But upon getting over the shock of what I they said were just going to be "a few minor changes" and seeing a totally different LP at Worlds; being away from the "controversy" for a while; and looking at the tapes of TAT's and WAG's versions with both good and poor performances by Sasha, I have to take back calling Wagner's version "Swan Puddle." IMO, it's as good a piece of choreography as any that were shown at Marshall's and better than some. I really believe that if we'd never seen TAT/SL, WAG/SL would have looked just fine. Not great, but just fine. Also, I do feel we're in an apples and oranges comparison because one was choreographed for the COP and the other for the OBO. The two systems have very different standards of judging. It will be interesting to see if RW's choreography gets "busier" next season, assuming COP will be used.
As for Sasha's performance, I wasn't there live so I can't comment on whether it sang or not, but I do tend to think it "hummed," and for a mistake-free seven-triple, two combo, program for Sasha, "humming" is a big step forward. It had good energy, she didn't mug, she seemed to have good speed (tough to tell on TV), and I also think there were places she was sublime. To borrow the vernacular of "American Idol," previously, all Sasha's LPs have been very pitchy. I wouldn't expect her to go from every LP being off-key to perfect pitch, give you chills with a program she'd only been working on for two to three months. But she's now set the bar higher and although I'm heartened to hear her seem to loosen her grip on her perfectionism, people are going to expect it of her. Also, she deserved the win, IMO. Although, an energetic Shizza, a mistake-free MK, a healthy Irina, a tragedy-free Jenny, a clean Suguri, or Ando without mistakes and better style could have beaten what Sasha skated--and I think they all know it, including Sasha. Still, gotta give the lady her due. I believe she skated the most competitions of anyone this season, changed coaches, skated a different LP every time she competed, and she ended the season a significantly better skater than she started, IMO. Anyway, she won five golds, I think, never only finished below second once, and won her first World medal. And I think I can now stop speculating about Sasha having some kind of "kinesthetic dyslexia," to everyone's relief, lol. I think somebody just needed to teach her how to jump.
A couple of quick comments on others:
Shizza: Understandably a lower energy performance than Worlds, but still clean and still with the most magical flow over the ice. It really looks physically impossible to glide like she does. She almost looks like she's moving sideways over the blade with as much speed as when you're going straight on. I just love it. I would like to see more of the personality we see of Shizza in the K&C in some of her skating just because I think she is so charming and funny. I would also like to see her extend more and hold some of those gorgeous positions longer.
Michelle: Although Michelle had two mistakes, I say good for her for pushing herself into unsafe territory. To me the mistakes just mean that she's working on her jump technique to try to get it to the next level. I think this is great. She's always had easy, consistent jumps but they were on the low side. I think she's taking the Olympic motto of higher, faster, stronger very seriously. And her SPINS! WOW!!! I've been waiting for this day! Michelle has true speed in her spins, plus drive and energy, all the way through to the last rotation. I think this is part of why she looked more musical. With more power in her jumps and spins, she always keeps up with the power of the music, which is very, well, powerful. Yeah, yeah, she'll need more this and that for COP, which I'm sure she and Arutunian know, but ironically, I felt this was one of Michelle's best performances ever. Why? Because she really pushed herself and took real risks. It's one thing to push yourself when you're not prepared or not ready for something, it's another thing to push yourself as part of the strategy to get to the next level. Of course I don't want her to pop a jump or fall at Nats, Worlds, or, dare I even say it, the... But at a cheesefest or really any other competition, as long as it's part of the journey toward improvement, fine, pop, fall, whatever it takes. I was very proud of Michelle for the way she skated and hope her body keeps cooperating with her. With two pops, maybe she got some judging favors over Irina, but OTOH, Irina may not have had the overall speed and power we're used to seeing and which doesn't show well on TV. After Sasha's skate, Dick Button said something about her technical mark compared to Shizuka since Sasha didn't have a 3/3, something like, "If you count the technical quality of every single thing she did, I'd put her first." The thing I liked was "counting the technical quality of every single thing." Michelle, IMO, used to have some elements, like her spins and the height of her jumps, that were good, but not as good as they could be. Now I think these things either are or are on their way to being as good as they can be, so perhaps "every single thing" Michelle did was better than Irina. Or it could be the usual cheesefest bias for a competition held in the US with two North American judges on the panel, lol.
Irina: I can't believe how strong she looks after what she's been through. Prednisone alone, which is the main treatment for vasculitis, can kill you, or at least do a lot of damage. I was just so happy to see her and loved her interview. "Oh, yes. That looks more like Irina Slutskaya skating now." I like this program a lot, although I hope she ditches the playing card motif and costume references. What a competitor! What a woman!
Jenny: Just heartbreaking to hear what she's been through. But she didn't skate bad at all; it was really just the first jump. I do agree with Peggy (can you believe it?!) that this LP just isn't Jenny. Callaghan is great for somebody like Todd Eldredge, but his programs for women have never done anything for me. I really hope he gets Leann Miller or Sandra Bezic or somebody else to choreograph both of Jenny's programs for her next year. Although the end of this season has been awful for Jenny, I think she's going to come back fighting. My only concern is her hip, but if her hip holds up, I think she'll be a force to be reckoned with at least for the US ladies.
Miki: You know, the fact that Ando's body looks so mature at 16 may not be such a good thing, or it could be a good thing because it may mean her growth spurt is over. It's just that I was looking at her hips--she's not too big or anything--but you see a lot of dancers with bodies like that at 16 and sometimes they keep growing. It's impossible to tell what a body is going to do, even looking at the parents. I mean, look at Michelle and Karen Kwan when they were both competing. It's just a variable for all the 16-year-olds--growth--that interests me. As for Miki's skating, after a growth spurt like hers weird splats aren't that unusual because your body is going, "Hey wait, how long are my legs again?" Coordination plays hide and seek. So she can (almost) do a 4sal and then wobble coming out of a relatively small split falling leaf, leading to a wipe out. I think she'll be much more together next season. As for her projection and style, hopefully she'll be coached by people who understand how difficult it is for some people to achieve it. Actually, the way she moved reminded me a little of Midori Ito, though taller and more graceful. I'll be curious to see what happens with her presentation. Yuka really developed her style after she stopped being coached by her father and at least from what I've seen, it seems the Japanese coaches are great at developing great jumpers, but the great stylists basically have to come fully formed, like Ota. For example, when they tried to make a stylist out of Yoshie Onda, it was as if they were trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I really don't know what to expect, but I'm sure it will be interesting.
Among the men, I thought Joubert actually outskated Plushenko. Weir had an off night, but I agree that he does seem to be unaware of the audience when he skates--though at Nats he seemed more, I don't know, present.
So, Joe, if Sasha skated the QR at Worlds like she did Marshall's, then you were indeed absolutely right. I bow to you, O Joe, Seer of Skaters--and give props to Hockeyfan for explaining the technical differences between TAT/SL and WAG/SL so well.
Rgirl
VE to see Sasha work with Sandra Bezic, who choreographed that gem for Lu Chen in 96. How did you feel about Sarah's more busy programs as choreographed by Robin?
