2012 Cup of Russia Men FS.

Niki2012 · Nov 11, 2012

IleK said:
Yes, I also agree with you about Daisuke's this year programs. They are ok, the SP is more like him, but the LP even when he skated it clean at JO seemed a little bit dull, too common, beneath him, comparing to what we saw the last 3 years. And also that costume, Morozov costume Remember his very original outfit and programs from the Olympics. But I expect him to add some salt and pepper to his LP with time passing and maybe at worlds it will look better.

I also do not like Takahashi’s LP costume. One-piece does not suit him. I am afraid it is bad influence from Morozov.
I hope he changes his costume from NHK.

yude · Nov 11, 2012

Congratulations to all the medalists!! :clap:

Both Chan's and Kozuka's LP are beautiful!!
I'm very looking foward to the GPF:yay:

let`s talk · Nov 11, 2012

:agree::yes:

All this fuss is because of me? Thanks guys! I am blushing like a virgin rock star.

:

Mathman said:
Although...Patrick got only 0.13 for his safe 2A, 0.13 for his safe 2LO and 0.30 for his safe 2S. If the jump's not there, no need to play macho man by forcing a 3A<< and falling.

Where he got his big GOEs was from his 4T+3T (2.14) and his solo 4T (2.71).

So, you are saying it's better to have a prog with safe elemets like double jumps, not to put risky elements like trixels, than to challenge real stuff? Haven't we already been there and seen that in the time of quadless champions like Buttle and Evan? Now time for trixel-less champs has come. Great!

Progs without risky elements is not just GOE for those safe elements. In general it's much tougher for body and nerves to skate the prog with elements of ulra difficulty. It often leads to mistakes which reflects in the quality of other elements and GOE for them, as well as PCS. Like it happened just recently at JO where Plu had a higher BV (even with a singled axel and doubled S) than Buttle due to challenging tougher elements. But he ended up with lower GOE and PCS than Jeffrey, and lower in general. Because he risked more difficult stuff, made mistakes, for that reason got lower GOE and PCS. If he had followed Buttle's route of skating safe and clean, he might have ended up above Buttle. But he is PLU! It's not a real champion material to skate safe.

Btw, speaking about GOE, you know what Patrick said about his second quad at the press-conference? He said it wasn't perfect because he had to speed down. Not perfect, the skater thinks. The judges gave him +2.71 GOE. Go figure. Lol.

let`s talk · Nov 11, 2012

wonderlen3000 said:
Well PChan get tired of peoples complaining him about winning with falls and triple splats, so he goes to a new approach. Winning with doubles jumps and inflated PCS.
Look on the bright side, 3 doubles jumps is a huge improvement from 3 falls. LOL Expect to see his PCS hit 100, by world.

Jokes aside, you are damn right. He didn't crack any 9 in PCS neither in JO nor in SC where he skated with falls. Knowing that skating-safe policy worked before in FS history, why not to try that old route. The moment he skated clean and safe without 3A and with three doubles, his PCS jumped up immediately. The funniest ones in this story is judges who seem like always thinking that they are smarter than anyone else. But the audience in Megasport, with "faint applause and scarce ovation" as someone put it, knew, as well as other fans, that he skated clean because he skated safe. Having and therefore not-having elements of super difficulty must resulted in components. No need to give abnormal PCS for doubles jumps. When did we last have a GP winner in Men who didn't even bother to jump 3A, the element that has been in this field for the 4th decade? Wonderful. :disapp:

jaylee · Nov 11, 2012

Niki2012 said:
I agree P Chan’s skating skill is better than three of them. But, I do not understand why he gets much higher scores on TR, PE, CC, and IN too. If they are closely related to SS, and a skater with high SS automatically gets higher scores on them, it is meaningless to have such elements. I like his program better than last season and he shows more emotions, but still to me only explanation he gets high PCS overall is his superiority in SS. I do not see much difference in other elements compared with other top skaters. They are so subjective and depend on their own taste. I find P’s program more boring than Kozuka although I am awed by his SS.

Kozuka's skating skills and transitions are excellent. However, in terms of projection, connection with the audience, and range of facial expression to express the music, he could use some improvement. He could start by smiling a bit more, and he could take some tips from Daisuke Takahashi and Yuzuru Hanyu on how they use their whole body to interpret the music.

Patrick Chan, whether you find him boring or not, does have a wider range of facial expression than Kozuka. That's not subjective, you can look at how Patrick's expression changes when his program opens, or right when he begins his first step sequence or his later choreographed sequence.

I respect Kozuka, and I'd love to love him. But he has got to be more expressive in order to get higher PCS. Being a subtle, introverted skater is not enough. Jeremy Abbott is at heart rather an introverted skater, but he's found a way to push himself to express a range of music genres and I think he's succeeded. Kozuka's programs this season are fine, but I think they could have pushed him out of his safety zone more. I LOVE his Glee Ex that was done by Kurt Browning.

Mathman · Nov 11, 2012

let`s talk said:
So, you are saying it's better to have a prog with safe elemets like double jumps, not to put risky elements like trixels, than to challenge real stuff? Haven't we already been there and seen that in the time of quadless champions like Buttle and Evan? Now time for trixel-less champs has come. Great!

Poor Patrick. If he tries hard stuff and falls, critics holler and scream. If he scales back and stays on his feet, critics holler and scream. His next strategy will be to attack all the hard jumps, no falls, but hold back on the intricate footwork and moves in the field. (Remember, you don't have to be perfect, just better than the other guys.)

Actually, I think this will be Chan's strategy for the Olympic season. He started out dazzling us with his quick feet. Stage two, learn a quad. Current stage, push the tech to the background temporarily to work on artistry and performance. Next year he will skate a simpler program, but concentrate on delivering the full tech content without major error. We'll see how it all plays out.

SGrand · Nov 11, 2012

Mathman said:
Poor Patrick. If he tries hard stuff and falls, critics holler and scream. If he scales back and stays on his feet, critics holler and scream. His next strategy will be to attack all the hard jumps, no falls, but hold back on the intricate footwork and moves in the field. (Remember, you don't have to be perfect, just better than the other guys.)

Actually, I think this will be Chan's strategy for the Olympic season. He started out dazzling us with his quick feet. Stage two, learn a quad. Current stage, push the tech to the background temporarily to work on artistry and performance. Next year he will skate a simpler program, but concentrate on delivering the full tech content without major error. We'll see how it all plays out.

Seriously, he must be thinking "I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't" LOL

giulia95 · Nov 11, 2012

Surely it’s just me, but I love Taka’s programs so much this year! :bow:

He’s so intense while skating, he feels the music, has a lot of speed, rythm and a sort of joy in his FS...
I appreciate his 3-3 combo and 3S at the very end of the FS, his amazing spins and that he didn’t play safe..lucky person who saw him live in Moscow! :yes:

On the other side, is the three- 2A- philosophy seriously coming back for Olys ? :biggrin:

?

Kelly · Nov 11, 2012

I love Kozuka too. But I already gave up on that the judges would give him the PCS he deserves. Not like Chan and Takahashi, if his jumps were not there 90% or more,
his PCS would suffer and drop like landslide. People want him to have more facial expression to have higher PCS, but to my knowledge, facial expression (or audience connection) should affect the presentation mark to some extent only, right? I hope he won't get discouraged, and focus on what he can do (control), and perform to his
satisfaction.

skatinginbc · Nov 11, 2012

Kozuka's skating is odd, rather difficult to describe. Bad posture and lines? Yet there were expressive, beautiful hand movements here and there. Not enough projection? Yet I could feel his strong passion intermittently ringing in my heart. Not enough facial expressions? Yet I could see flashes of genuine joys and sorrows exuding through his skate. No sense of music? That's definitely not true. He always hit the beats right. But he had a hard time to grab the audience's eye. Why?

One of the reasons, I believe, is his lack of internal consistency: Flowing hands combined with stiff torso, good moments mixed with bad. If a great skate of high internal consistency is randomly divided into several parts, what we get is several parts of good quality skate. If a performance of poor internal consistency is randomly divided into parts, what we get is the amplified choppiness. It is thus especially detrimental to his presentation when Kozuka made visible errors, which somehow had an amplified overall impact. Identical mistakes if made by Chan or Dai would have had less overall impact.

Niki2012 said:
I am afraid it is bad influence from Morozov.

I just discovered why I lost interest in Dai this season.

Bluebonnet · Nov 11, 2012

let`s talk said:
The funniest ones in this story is judges who seem like always thinking that they are smarter than anyone else. But the audience in Megasport, with "faint applause and scarce ovation" as someone put it, knew, as well as other fans, that he skated clean because he skated safe. Having and therefore not-having elements of super difficulty must resulted in components. No need to give abnormal PCS for doubles jumps. When did we last have a GP winner in Men who didn't even bother to jump 3A, the element that has been in this field for the 4th decade? Wonderful. :disapp:

I'd use the word "expertized" instead of "smarter", as it has a closer meaning to discribe the judges in this situation. Are you laughing at the judges thinking they are experts? For your information, they are.

The judges are much more expertized than you and most of us are. So it has boiled down again to this: Are you arguing that the results should go with the audience preferences?! After all, this is not a popularity contest!

Frankly, I don't even know what you are arguing about Patrick? Because the audience didn't have a standing ovation, so Patrick shouldn't get this score? Because Patrick did a perfect quad combo and a quad, but failed to deliver the 3A and a couple of triples, so he shouldn't get this score? You want his PCS reduced to the point that you could accept? :laugh:

That might be the point that other people could not accept. It all depends on whom you are rooting for. It's great that figure skating didn't take the vote from the audiences but from the experts.

Mathman said:
Poor Patrick. If he tries hard stuff and falls, critics holler and scream. If he scales back and stays on his feet, critics holler and scream. His next strategy will be to attack all the hard jumps, no falls, but hold back on the intricate footwork and moves in the field. (Remember, you don't have to be perfect, just better than the other guys.)

Actually, I think this will be Chan's strategy for the Olympic season. He started out dazzling us with his quick feet. Stage two, learn a quad. Current stage, push the tech to the background temporarily to work on artistry and performance. Next year he will skate a simpler program, but concentrate on delivering the full tech content without major error. We'll see how it all plays out.

Great! Math, are you implying that Patrick has been leading the way all those times and continuing to lead the way of figure skating? Geez, no wonder! :laugh:

Buttercup · Nov 11, 2012

wallylutz said:
I don't know if you realize it but your continuous outrageous and verbal assaults on Patrick Chan has turned many otherwise ambivalent members who were previously indifferent re: Chan to sympathize with him. The fictional outrage really isn't working very well because people aren't stupid. Not a single soul here has contested the result but you can somehow dig the BV in an attempt to create a controversy when there is none to be found. Take my advice, just let it go, otherwise very soon, no one is going to take your posts seriously.

Well, I find the people who think Chan is the source of all skating evil and those who consider him the skating equivalent of Chuck Norris equally unappealing and unpersuasive. Which probably explain my current reaction to him: indifference.

I am not indifferent to how so many discussions end up being hyperbolic arguments about him, however. Can't people just make intentional impeding in warmup videos instead, like we had in the heyday of the Mao/Yuna bot wars?

Niki2012 said:
I also do not like Takahashi’s LP costume. One-piece does not suit him. I am afraid it is bad influence from Morozov.
I hope he changes his costume from NHK.

Bad influence is a redundant expression where Morozov is concerned. Morozov's influence is always bad ("Morozov's good influence" is either an oxymoron or a sign that the apocalypse is upon us).

skatinginbc · Nov 11, 2012

Buttercup said:
"Morozov's good influence" is either an oxymoron or a sign that the apocalypse is upon us.

Bluebonnet · Nov 11, 2012

Buttercup said:
Bad influence is a redundant expression where Morozov is concerned. Morozov's influence is always bad ("Morozov's good influence" is either an oxymoron or a sign that the apocalypse is upon us).

Too bad, that's not what the skating world thinks.

Mathman · Nov 11, 2012

Good Morozov influence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8O-XlPIFLQ#t=1m40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfluAux0Sf0#t=3m10s

skatinginbc · Nov 11, 2012

Mathman said:
Good Morozov influence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8O-XlPIFLQ#t=1m40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfluAux0Sf0#t=3m10s

Hallelujah, a sign that the apocalypse is upon us.

Buttercup · Nov 11, 2012

Mathman said:
Good Morozov influence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8O-XlPIFLQ#t=1m40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfluAux0Sf0#t=3m10s

It was not until the IJS was fully implemented that Morozov's evil became truly apparent. Here's one account of some of his deeds.

verte76 · Nov 11, 2012

Too bad.

Olympia · Nov 11, 2012

They're showing the Men's free skate on TV on the East coast now. Menshov has such high first jumps. I'm not familiar with him at all.

Nobody looks very smooth yet, though, except perhaps Kozuka. Chan hasn't shown yet. Do people here on GS feel that since the CoP, the general quality of skating has gone down with everyone working so hard to maximize points? (With a few exceptions, of course.) I don't think I've ever seen such a collection of labored spins and step work in my life, men's and ladoes' alike. No wonder Kiira Korpi won. Her spins looks like actual spins, fast and centered--not as if she's afraid of tipping over because of a complete absence of centrifugal force. Or is it centripetal force in this case?

ImaginaryPogue · Nov 11, 2012

No, I don't think the quality of skating has gone down whatsoever. I think we tend to remember the best of the previous era, but lets remember, not all spinners were Lucinda Ruh and steppers like Yuka Sato.

2012 Cup of Russia Men FS.

Niki2012

yude

let`s talk

Match Penalty

let`s talk

Match Penalty

jaylee

Mathman

SGrand

giulia95

Kelly

skatinginbc

Bluebonnet

Buttercup

skatinginbc

Bluebonnet

Mathman

skatinginbc

Buttercup

verte76

Olympia

ImaginaryPogue

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