What's a Connection? Discussion inspired by NHK FD Thread. | Page 4 | Golden Skate

What's a Connection? Discussion inspired by NHK FD Thread.

cleoc said:
Its wrong thread, but i want to express my point about this. Honestly i am sure no other ice dancer couldnt made such acrobatic liftsm like Tessa did. I mean not only her lines in this lifts, but enterent (back flip in last lift in there FD for example). I think only Khohlova did such lift better, but she is vry small :) And V-M alwayse show new lifts and there lifts are most difficult, so...
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The problem with lifts like that is that they are hard on Scott, as he and Tessa are pretty much the same size. They withdrew from Finlandia because Scott was having problems with a strained neck, no doubt from practicing that very difficult lift.
 
Olympia said:
Agreed. Another couple with wonderful connection is of course Klimova and Ponomarenko. In their case, it's based on a connection off the ice as well, but having something in real life and being able to project it as performers will not always coincide. There's a certain ability to radiate emotion that must be present.
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Speaking of Ponomarenko....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_iOJsrs-WA

Yes, they're young....but for their age, they have quite a connection to the audience. I was very drawn in. I can't find their Cats FD from U.S. Challenge Skate or Sectionals on YouTube, but shows it even more (it's on Ice Network).
 
The relationship between a connection with/to the music, with/to the audience and with/to each other can be very interesting. I've been thinking about Krylova and Ovsyannikov. They certainly had a good relationship with/to the music, but one thing about the two was they projected more to the audience than to each other. She in particular played much more to the audience than to her partner--so much so that my friend used to joke that she was like Gloria Swanson on crack. HUGE facial expressions and gestures. She definitely played to the last seat in the last row of the back balcony.
 
WeakAnkles said:
The relationship between a connection with/to the music, with/to the audience and with/to each other can be very interesting. I've been thinking about Krylova and Ovsyannikov. They certainly had a good relationship with/to the music, but one thing about the two was they projected more to the audience than to each other. She in particular played much more to the audience than to her partner--so much so that my friend used to joke that she was like Gloria Swanson on crack. HUGE facial expressions and gestures. She definitely played to the last seat in the last row of the back balcony.
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I always like Krylova/Ovsyannikov for that reason. I get what G/P won most of the time, but I always felt I could relate and connect more K/O. (I'm saying this as someone that only watched some of the programs back in the 1990s, but didn't really watch them until recently on YouTube).
 
WeakAnkles said:
The relationship between a connection with/to the music, with/to the audience and with/to each other can be very interesting. I've been thinking about Krylova and Ovsyannikov. They certainly had a good relationship with/to the music, but one thing about the two was they projected more to the audience than to each other. She in particular played much more to the audience than to her partner--so much so that my friend used to joke that she was like Gloria Swanson on crack. HUGE facial expressions and gestures. She definitely played to the last seat in the last row of the back balcony.
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Yes. But i think it was russian style. Do you remember Bestemyanova-Bukin? Her fire on ice was.....
 
chuckm said:
The problem with lifts like that is that they are hard on Scott, as he and Tessa are pretty much the same size. They withdrew from Finlandia because Scott was having problems with a strained neck, no doubt from practicing that very difficult lift.
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I post my opinion in canadian ice dance thread.
 
gkelly said:
... Bourne & Kraatz? Do you feel they had good connection with each other? Or was connection with the music and the audience enough?
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I would say that Bourne & Kraatz was one of my greatest disappointments when it comes to connection because they used to have it between each other but then it faded away and just got directed out to the audience and in the later years I felt zero connection between the two skaters.

B/K programs I felt had good connection: (1994 OSP) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBwLKteo2BA, (1995 OD) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY9kHRjCsrQ, (1995 FD) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUQfbeF67LM

You can watch year after year how their connection seemed to melt away until 2002 when I felt they were skating together in name only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfD8-3jWuiE
 
cleoc said:
... Honestly i am sure no other ice dancer couldnt made such acrobatic liftsm like Tessa did. I mean not only her lines in this lifts, but enterent (back flip in last lift in there FD for example). ...
Click to expand...

chuckm said:
The problem with lifts like that is that they are hard on Scott, as he and Tessa are pretty much the same size. They withdrew from Finlandia because Scott was having problems with a strained neck, no doubt from practicing that very difficult lift.
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Minor point, but Moir has said that the SD lift caused his temporary neck strain.

Mrs. P said:
This might sound silly to you, but they kind of remind me of those who do those synchronized diving events. When you watch the top Chinese divers in a platform diving event, like at the Olympics, you are amazed, not just because they are good athletics, but they have a connection with each other that enables them to dives with great precision and coordination. And when they do that, it's sort of like art to see their bodies work together to achieve this athletic feat.
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ImaginaryPogue said:
Those synchro divers you mention tend to seem more mechanical than anything, so it might just be different perceptions (though D/W definitely have a mechanistic quality to some of their movements)
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Gotta agree with IP that the analogy to synchro diving is not flattering to Davis/White [contrary to Mrs. P's good intentions ;)]. I love watching competitions among individual divers, but synchro diving (although it requires precise coordination) is too contrived a concept to do anything for me. It only makes me wish that more medals for individual diving were available to go around, so that concentrating on individual excellence would be rewarded more frequently.

Apple Pi said:
... D/W's connection is one that is very subtle and if you blink, you will miss it. ...
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I enjoy seeing the connection that D/W show in interviews. :) It is apparent to me more consistently in off-ice settings than in their performances. [Maybe I am blinking too often? :ohwell:]
 
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Mrs. P said:
That's a consideration for the three Canton teams. D/W and V/M both have skated for 15 years each. The Shibs have been partners for 8 years.

I do think longevity does help -- just look at the Chinese pairs. Neither Shen/Zhao nor Pang/Tong were all that expressive in their early years but over time their connection grew and so did their performance and skating! Pang and Tong, though they were not as technically proficient, really blew me away at Skate America by how in sync and connected they were to each other. It made for some beautiful skating!
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I absolutely agree about P/T, I was actually thinking of writing here their names as an example of VERY good connection in Pairs: especially in this year's FS (which I LOVE! :love:) they are really skating like one person on the ice when I don't see any connection between V/T and S/S: excellent pairs, both technically and artistically, but it's a kind of single skater+single skater skating together...
 
I have to agree about V/T and P/T-even skating injured, P&T skated a much more compelling program IMO, as a member of the audience at SkAm. V&T demonstrated neither a connection to the audience, the music or each other there anywhere close to what Pang & Tong showed.

And Pang & Tong were just wonderful!
 
Mrs. P said:
Speaking of Ponomarenko....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_iOJsrs-WA

Yes, they're young....but for their age, they have quite a connection to the audience. I was very drawn in. I can't find their Cats FD from U.S. Challenge Skate or Sectionals on YouTube, but shows it even more (it's on Ice Network).
Click to expand...

How delicious! And was that a glimpse of Marina Klimova at the end as the couple left the ice? And was that the music from Barnum? That's one of Torvill/Dean's programs...how lovely to see it again.

This little couple is wonderful. Look at her positions, especially in the lifts. I will watch for them with great eagerness as they advance.
 
Congrats to the posters for contributing to an interesting discussion. :)

I feel I can't completely express my opinions and views in english but I'll give it a try:
The Shibs are a good example of "having a connection". I don't mean this just because they are brother and sister but cause of the way they look together. They genuinely look like they care for each other. The eye contact is great, they look very comfortable together. You can spot a link between them even before you learn that they are brother and sister. Besides there's an harmony in the way they present themselves that helps carrying out the rest (projecting to the audience, skating to the music, etc).
Isabelle and Paul Duchesnay were also a brother and sister team but the vibe I would get from them was totally different. It kind of reminds me of some modern dance shows where the choreographies ask for a clash of minds rather than to display that harmony I've mentioned above.
Krylova & Ovsyannikov have a similar effect on me as Meryl and Charlie. They are not romantically involved but I can't imagine them with anyone else. They do have a bond and look very at ease with each other, showing the same approach, attack and mindset. You can see that there's a mutual respect between the partners and a sort of "we're in this together" attitude that I appreciate very much. To me that's a connection.
On the total opposite I remember watching Berezhnaya and Schliakov. They are both attractive human beings but couldn't look more apart and awkward together. The reactions they had in the knc showed that respect and admiration simply didn't exist between the two. So even if during the performances they would have to look each other in the eyes it would never work no matter how they would try to fake it.
I would also like to add that skaters having an off ice relationship doesn't necessarily mean they will have the ability to show it on the ice or seem like they look well together. Let's think of Grushina and Goncharov (who were married) and Volosozhar & Morozov.
 
mikiandorocks said:
Isabelle and Paul Duchesnay were also a brother and sister team but the vibe I would get from them was totally different. It kind of reminds me of some modern dance shows where the choreographies ask for a clash of minds rather than to display that harmony I've mentioned above.
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Aside from the tango OSP, which was kind of an over-the-top parody of sexual aggression, I saw many of their programs as being defensive/aggressive, with both partners on the same team protecting each other from a dangerous world-out-there (Savage Rites, both versions of Missing, West Side Story). But definitely not soft and romantic toward each other, for obvious reasons.
 
You mean this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEz1xYVO-aw

This is kind of one of the programs that remind me of the "clash of minds". They never looked as one to me. The feeling I would get from the Duchesnays was that I was watching two strong individuals that for whatever reason had to share the same space.
 
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I think if connection to Audience is a requirement, then being able to make the audience feel emotion is meeting 'connection to Audience' at the highest level and deserving of high PCS scores.[/QUOTE]

When the audience gives a standing ovation, the audience obviously feels some emotion and connection to the performance, wouldn't you say?
 
I certainly would, particularly when the standing ovation is given in a country that is not the competitor's own, and more impressive if a standing O follows both the short and long programs/dances.
 
KKonas said:
I think if connection to Audience is a requirement, then being able to make the audience feel emotion is meeting 'connection to Audience' at the highest level and deserving of high PCS scores.
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Depends. Canadian audiences give standing ovations to all their skaters, even if a performance was just this side of dreadful (only exceptional performances by skaters from other countries get them). Does that mean all the Canadian skaters are entitled to high PCS scores and the skaters who did not get them aren't?

Doris is right---a standing ovation means more when it is not in a skater's home country.
 
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