Renewed Czisny ready to return to ice in Omaha | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Renewed Czisny ready to return to ice in Omaha

kwanatic said:
How do you think the judges will score Angela in terms of PCS if she skates like this?
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I think she's too unknown to get the marks she deserves just yet. If she hits 10 triples over both her programs she can certainly end up on the podium but I think there's at least 5 skaters that will outscore her significantly on PCS if they skate reasonably well. She still is very much a technical skater and she has a bright future.
 
drivingmissdaisy said:
I think she's too unknown to get the marks she deserves just yet. If she hits 10 triples over both her programs she can certainly end up on the podium but I think there's at least 5 skaters that will outscore her significantly on PCS if they skate reasonably well. She still is very much a technical skater and she has a bright future.
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That's what I'm thinking too...even though I find Angela to be much better than Gracie at this point. I think her presentation is better, I find her to be more artistically inclined than Gracie, and to me her programs are better too...as I said they're pretty much equal in terms of the technical content but Gracie's senior level experience is what will give her the boost regardless of how Angela skates. I doubt if Angela will outscore Gracie unless Gracie makes several mistakes.

I'd love to see Angela crack the top 5 this year. That's the best case scenario for her b/c she'd earn a trip to junior worlds, hopefully do well there, and set herself up for a debut on the GP next season...
 
To my inexpert eye, I thought Gold was markedly superior in all five program components. She had speed, attack, blade work, pizzazz.

To me, it's one thing to say that Ashley Wagner is much better than the rest of the field this year and will probably win. even if she is not perfect, no matter what the other girls do. It is quite another to say that the USFSA has already directed the judges to give her undeservedly high marks because they want to send her to worlds. Worlds should not be a consideration. Judge the contest before you.
 
Mathman said:
To me, it's one thing to say that Ashley Wagner is much better than the rest of the field this year and will probably win. even if she is not perfect, no matter what the other girls do. It is quite another to say that the USFSA has already directed the judges to give her undeservedly high marks because they want to send her to worlds. Worlds should not be a consideration. Judge the contest before you.
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The judges didn't do that last year with Czisny. Despite her mediocre skate at Nationals, they kept her in the top two even after the GPF debacle and her scary Detroit Club skate. And then they didn't send her to 4CC, which tells me they knew darned well that something was amiss with her.

I'm just hoping there won't be another repeat of the same this year if Alissa doesn't skate well.
 
LOL there is no chance of Czisny being held up this year. In fact the reverse is true, I would be surprised if she isnt held down if she has a somewhat decent skate to a fairly poor skate, and if she did somehow have a great skate I guarantee she would be held down in the scores (if even neccessary as at this point Wagner, Gold, Nagasu, can all easily outskate even a perfect Czisny) to ensure she wasnt on the World team. This year is the reverse of last year, Czisny is no longer any pet figure of the USFSA, and while they might allow her a fighting shot at a 3 women Olympic team next season if she does everything right between now and then, she is the last one they will want to ever send to a 2 women Worlds with Olympic spots on the line and rightfully so. The only way she would be going to Worlds this year is if she lands 3 different types of quadruples jumps at Nationals.
 
Mathman said:
To my inexpert eye, I thought Gold was markedly superior in all five program components. She had speed, attack, blade work, pizzazz.

To me, it's one thing to say that Ashley Wagner is much better than the rest of the field this year and will probably win. even if she is not perfect, no matter what the other girls do. It is quite another to say that the USFSA has already directed the judges to give her undeservedly high marks because they want to send her to worlds. Worlds should not be a consideration. Judge the contest before you.
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At every Nationals since 2009 now they have either held up the wrong people, or they have payed the price for judging the event as was and sending the wrong people to Worlds (which was which exactly each year is up for interpretation). So in a year where the obvious ones to send to Worlds are the most obvious they have been since the Kwan and Cohen days, Wagner as U.S Champion, and one of Gold or Nagasu (or if they have a great competition perhaps Gao or Agnes, but both are iffy ones to send, so might be held back even if they outskate Gold and Nagasu at Nationals), they are in fact wise to keep it at such barring something catastrophic at Nationals. Of course judging Nationals exactly as it is skated with no further considerations to how ones are skating internationally of late would be fine if the U.S Nationals didnt determine automatic berths to Worlds, and if the USFSA werent all but required to send the top finishers, and if it wasnt a well known fact politics are part of scoring at every level of the sport, especialy at Nationals.
 
drivingmissdaisy said:
This bothered me too. I could accept the presentation marks being lower for the programs for the lesser known skaters but there were ladies such as Tatiana Malanina who had great elements but could never pull high technical scores.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcnhYjmc-Cw

She got mostly 5.3s, and as low as 5.0 for technical elements on this program.
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Yes, I agree, or this is another good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eym3nxL6650
Just don't consider the presentation, only the technical elements: 3Lo, 3Lz+2T, 2A (as difficult as the programs that all the others were planning), perfectly executed, with excellent height, flow, distance, perfect outside edge in the lutz, she did a FCSp, that is actually more difficult than the FSSp (it has a higher value under the CoP), I personally liked the steps and the spirals, at least she had a wonderful speed and they were fairly difficult, good CCoSp, well centred, not extraordinary speed but the positions were good and teh technique was really good, difficult entry in the LSp with a very good back position and good arm movements. The only thing that could have been better, in my opinion, was the speed in the spins that were, however, well centred and executed with graceful positions.
Now look at her technical marks: 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 5.3, 5.6, 5.7, 5.6, 5.7, 5.2. 5.2 and 5.3?! :confused: She should have received all 5.8s and 5.9s in my opinion, maybe 5.7 if you consider that the 3Lo is a bit easier than a 3F and that she didn't do a 3-3 but all the marks between 5.2 and 5.5 are totally unjustified for me! :no: The truth is that the judges were biased because she wasn't a well-known skaters nor a top contender, it's obvious that if Michelle/Maria B./Slutskaya did this same technical elements, her marks would have been surely between 5.7 and 5.9!
(Sorry for the off-topic post! :slink: )
 
I guess I am the last Pollyanna left standing. ;)

I don’t think we should accept all this winking and nodding so jadedly. The worst thing that can happen to a sport is that people come to believe that it is fixed. Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting on games. This was the one unforgivable sin, because if the public starts to believe that major league baseball is in the pocket of gambling interests, then no one will ever go to a baseball game again.

IMHO the ISU and the USFSA should be doing everything they can to dispel this image of their sport.

If you are going to hold a national championship competition, hold a national championship competition. If not, don't, and send whoever you want to Worlds.
 
Mathman said:
I guess I am the last Pollyanna left standing. ;)

I don’t think we should accept all this winking and nodding so jadedly. The worst thing that can happen to a sport is that people come to believe that it is fixed. Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting on games. This was the one unforgivable sin, because if the public starts to believe that major league baseball is in the pocket of gambling interests, then no one will ever go to a baseball game again.

IMHO the ISU and the USFSA should be doing everything they can to dispel this image of their sport.

If you are going to hold a national championship competition, hold a national championship competition. If not, don't, and send whoever you want to Worlds.
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I think the reason there is rarely genuine outrage is because when the favorites make multiple mistakes, the other skaters aren't perfect either. Yes Alissa wasn't great last year at Nationals but the cleanest program was from Caroline, who has very serious deficiencies in her skating. I still would have placed Zhang ahead but I recognize that Alissa is a far better skater and performs all of the non-jump elements better. Agnes also had problems that could justify placing her lower as well. Now if someone like Angela came in and skated two perfect programs but finished off the podium in a poorly skated competition then I might agree that something looks fishy.
 
NO competition is any fun to watch when the results are pre-determined (i.e. fixed). That's when I tune out.

ETA: on a related note, not much fun either when the result is a foregone conclusion after the SP. The women's final in Vancouver 2010 had absolutely no suspense at all because Yuna Kim was ahead by like 500 points or something. What a killjoy.
 
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^ We've seen that quite a bit this year, too. Someone is so far ahead after the short program that the only suspense is whether it is possible for them to sakte so badly in the long that the other guy can catch up. (Nope -- it was bad, but not quite that bad.)
 
skateluvr said:
Nationals is Alissa's swan song-her goodbye to all in Omaha and TV land. It's naive to think she can go to worlds again. She/we know it. She was a lovely ice princess who I believe will end this year. A few shows and a new career. That is skating.
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As happens quite frequently, I have to agree with skateluvr. I think Alissa never really fully realized her potential. She had the skills but she also had the nerves, etc. I wish her well in whatever she tries next. Some years ago she would have a great career in pro shows - with her beauty and grace she would have been very popular. Unfortunately - there aren't many opportunities for pro skaters anymore.
 
R.D. said:
NO competition is any fun to watch when the results are pre-determined (i.e. fixed). That's when I tune out.

ETA: on a related note, not much fun either when the result is a foregone conclusion after the SP. The women's final in Vancouver 2010 had absolutely no suspense at all because Yuna Kim was ahead by like 500 points or something. What a killjoy.
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No suspense? I was having conniptions. There's no such thing as a foregone conclusion these days because it's points and not ordinals. And YuNa had such extraordinary pressure on her. Plus she was being chased by Mao at her peak, with three triple axels in her arsenal. Maybe I'm just unusually chicken--well, that's true, of course--but I don't see how any viewer or fan can relax before the long program in the Olympics. Look how Shen nearly fell off Zhao in that lift in the pairs long program.
 
Seriously. More generally, I'd also argue that seeing Nagasu, Lepisto and Suzuki having career high skates, Asada making history and Rochette rising to the occasion made the Vancouver Ladies long program one of the greatest skating events I can recall. And Kim capping that off with her greatest performance ever? My word.
 
Vancouver was the greatest ladies competition in history all around, and seeing the best lady skater of all time Yu Na Kim win by skating the best ladies performances of all time, was the perfect exclamation point.
 
Olympia said:
No suspense? I was having conniptions. There's no such thing as a foregone conclusion these days because it's points and not ordinals. And YuNa had such extraordinary pressure on her. Plus she was being chased by Mao at her peak, with three triple axels in her arsenal. Maybe I'm just unusually chicken--well, that's true, of course--but I don't see how any viewer or fan can relax before the long program in the Olympics. Look how Shen nearly fell off Zhao in that lift in the pairs long program.
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I was on the edge of my seat in 1998. Same in 2002. And even 2006, to a lesser extent.

But 2010? Nah, it felt like any other event I watch.

I remember the adrenaline, the heart-pounding I used to feel whenever US Nationals or Worlds was happening live. I lived for that. The last year that happened? 2005.

The closest I've ever come to feeling that again was in the moments just before Cohen's SP at 2010 Nationals...didn't know what we were going to get from her.

I do miss that feeling...but then again, those years were my years of peak interest, which has fallen since - remains high enough that I still post, but I no longer go out of my way.
 
ImaginaryPogue said:
Seriously. More generally, I'd also argue that seeing Nagasu, Lepisto and Suzuki having career high skates, Asada making history and Rochette rising to the occasion made the Vancouver Ladies long program one of the greatest skating events I can recall. And Kim capping that off with her greatest performance ever? My word.
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Was it a great competition? Yes.

Was it suspenseful? No. Kim had it in the bag post-SP and you KNEW it. Besides, probably the most predictable ladies outcome at an Olympics.
 
Okay, but how much of that has to do with the presence of a strong American contender (in those years you mention) vs a foregone conclusion?
 
R.D. said:
Was it a great competition? Yes.

Was it suspenseful? No. Kim had it in the bag post-SP and you KNEW it.
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Agree to disagree. In the post-figures era, I don't think a lady that won the SP won the title, and we'd already seen Kim meltdown at Skate America and she'd only broken 130 once. If Kim had a skate closer to her GPF/SA LP and Asada matched Four continents (or Rochette matched nationals) we'd be talking about a different result. I knew she'd won after she'd skated, but everyone did. It was that kind of astonishing skate.
 
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