4CC Ladies Free Skate

SkateNater · Feb 10, 2013

prettykeys said:
I'm not saying you're wrong. But boring SP+boring LP vs. terrible SP+awesome LP, I'll take the latter (from a preference point of view.)

And yes, the USFSA has massive favoritism going on. With Wagner. Her PCS at Nats beat-out what Worlds Champions have gotten...and then Nagasu was KILLED by the judges and tech panel afterwards which pissed me off greatly.

I didn't pay attention to Gold in her junior circuit, but if what people say are true, that she can be a spitfire, then...I understand why they went with Wagner+Gold.

Addition: YuNa has the layout she has right now because of the above, plus she doesn't want to break-up her 3-3.

BTW the tech panel here was hard. There are a few UR's on the protocol sheet that I wasn't expecting.

Gold's FS at Junior worlds was pretty good. Great, IMO. She has issues with nerves, I could tell she was nervous just by her body language before her skate. Unfortunately, she doesn't have much time to get it under control. Worlds are soon, and Sochi is next year.

hurrah · Feb 10, 2013

Ambivalent said:
I respectfully disagree. I think her edge going into the flip could still be better; it's still a bit wobbly in my humble opinion.

Yes, of course her flip could still improve, and I hope it will improve because she needs to increase her 3-3 success rate. But compared to Nationals and GP, where she was under-rotating her flip, her flip at 4CC was a huge improvement. :clap:

This improvement gives me hope that it'll get even better quite soon.

Mao's 'flip improvement' is really remarkable in that she didn't actually try and fiddle and improve her old flip technique. She just basically learnt a new jump, which is her flip now. And she did that all the while improving her skating skills and all her other jump techniques. There is not one jump of her's that hasn't gotten a makeover. Even her loop got a revision. Her toe loop, probably, got the least change. All this she did amidst her mother's prolonged illness. It's totally remarkable.

Ambivalent · Feb 10, 2013

hurrah said:
Yes, of course her flip could still improve, and I hope it will improve because she needs to increase her 3-3 success rate. But compared to Nationals and GP, where she was under-rotating her flip, her flip at 4CC was a huge improvement. This improvement gives me hope that it'll get even better quite soon.

Mao's 'flip improvement' is really remarkable in that she didn't actually try and fiddle and improve her old flip technique. She just basically learnt a new jump, which is her flip now. And she did that all the while improving her skating skills and all her other jump techniques. There is not one jump of her's that hasn't gotten a makeover. Even her loop got a revision. Her toe loop, probably, got the least change. All this she did amidst her mother's prolonged illness. It's totally remarkable.

Yes Mao deserves :thumbsup: :bow:

for making the changes she saw fit in order to reach higher heights. I mean for heaven's sake, an Olympic silver medallist and two time world champion completely reviewing her technique and taking the falls for it in the past two years? She is a wonder.

aftertherain · Feb 10, 2013

prettykeys said:
Addition: YuNa has the layout she has right now because of the above, plus she doesn't want to break-up her 3-3.

BTW the tech panel here was hard. There are a few UR's on the protocol sheet that I wasn't expecting.

I thought Yuna's 3-3 waa pretty much a given, so I didn't mention it. It would be a sad and strange day if Yuna ever came to competition without a planned 3-3.

prettykeys · Feb 10, 2013

SkateNater said:
Gold's FS at Junior worlds was pretty good. Great, IMO. She has issues with nerves, I could tell she was nervous just by her body language before her skate. Unfortunately, she doesn't have much time to get it under control. Worlds are soon, and Sochi is next year.

Yup...face = deer in headlights.

bekalc - I agree with everything you say. :biggrin:

But I still agree with the USFSA's overall decision. Yes, they got there in a questionable way, but I still don't blame them. Yes, Gold's interpretation skills need a lot of work, and I do not accept "limited international experience" as an excuse. Really, Gold die-hard fans have been saying that for too long. Plenty of girls have been in those shoes before and they're not as hot and cold as she's been. But, maybe she'll surprise us the next time. :biggrin:

minze · Feb 10, 2013

Ambivalent said:
Yes Mao deserves :thumbsup: for making the changes she saw fit in order to reach higher heights. I mean for heaven's sake, an Olympic silver medallist and two time world champion completely reviewing her technique and taking the falls for it in the past two years? She is a wonder.

:thumbsup: :clap:

SkateNater · Feb 10, 2013

bekalc said:
The thing is Gold really doesn't have a lot of international experience. She only had one JGP last season-which she did win. And she had Junior Worlds where she got a silver medal (and world team trophy where she did not so well)

On the Grand Prix, she was a mess at Skate Canada and had problems at Cup of Russia. Gold right now is hit or mess. Yes she skated well in the long program at Nationals but even she admitted that she had nothing to lose at this point.

If your asking me long term who I think has more potential-I actually will agree its Gold. But what I'm not convinced of right now is that Gold is ready for the type of pressure this Worlds would bring...

Gao was more consistent overall at Nationals, and was frankly more consistent throughout the Grand Prix...There's a reason you have two programs in a competition....

And right now I find minus the jumps-Gold pretty boring too.

There is a reason, however with the current point system there is a lot of ways you can make up ground in the FS. Gold is a better jumper and spinner than Gao, so she gains a lot of points there. She is faster, she has better transitions. CH and IN are only 2 parts of PCS, and given the rest of what Gao does that is not enough to overtake Gold when she skates clean. That is why Gold got the scores she got, which was in line with Tuktamysheva at Europeans for a similar skate with similar qualities - so I don't see what's so odd about her Nationals score... If Asada/Kim/Kostner skate clean programs they will probably still be close to 10 points higher than her, especially when you factor in their PCS lead in the short program to add onto it.

Gao is not going to get anywhere near the world Podium and unless she does a lot of improvement and some upgrades between now and Sochi she isn't going to the Olympics, either. The US isn't going to Gamble with a skater who hasn't been to Worlds again. That's why they were ready to put Sasha Cohen on the Podium in 2010 until she imploded in the FS at Nationals.

Ambivalent · Feb 10, 2013

aftertherain said:
I thought Yuna's 3-3 waa pretty much a given, so I didn't mention it. It would be a sad and strange day if Yuna ever came to competition without a planned 3-3.

Her 3-3 gives her so much versatility because if she doesn't do the opening 3Lz well she can always do a 3F-3T as her 3-3. Yu-Na's skating for some reason has always had a degree of "in-built" safety because her toe technique is so brilliant. I'm sure she could do 3Sal-3T if she really wanted to.

prettykeys · Feb 10, 2013

aftertherain said:
I thought Yuna's 3-3 waa pretty much a given, so I didn't mention it. It would be a sad and strange day if Yuna ever came to competition without a planned 3-3.

Yes, it's totally a given, not worth mentioning at all.

Mao88 · Feb 10, 2013

LADIES FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Mao ASADA (JPN) - 205.45 Free Skate
2. Akiko SUZUKI (JPN) - 190.08 Free Skate
3. Kanako MURAKAMI (JPN) - 181.03
4. Christina GAO (USA) - 176.28
5. Zijun LI (CHN) - 170.42
6. Gracie GOLD (USA) - 166.66
7. Kaetlyn OSMOND (CAN) - 159.38
8. Agnes ZAWADZKI (USA) - 158.99
9. Amelie LACOSTE (CAN) - 155.08
10. Kexin ZHANG (CHN) - 148.34
11. Julianne SEGUIN (CAN) - 146.58
12. Brooklee HAN (AUS) - 134.90
13. Reyna HAMUI (MEX) - 123.69
14. Chantelle KERRY (AUS) - 118.11
15. Crystal KIANG (TPE) - 109.15
16. Yeon Jun PARK (KOR) - 106.79
17. Melissa BULANHAGUI (PHI) - 106.36
18. Lejeanne MARAIS (RSA) - 105.06
19. Melinda WANG (TPE) - 96.95
20. Ami PAREKH (IND) - 88.39

aftertherain · Feb 10, 2013

prettykeys said:
Yes, it's totally a given, not worth mentioning at all.

Nope, not even an honorable mention.

SkateNater · Feb 10, 2013

Ambivalent said:
Her 3-3 gives her so much versatility because if she doesn't do the opening 3Lz well she can always do a 3F-3T as her 3-3. Yu-Na's skating for some reason has always had a degree of "in-built" safety because her toe technique is so brilliant. I'm sure she could do 3Sal-3T if she really wanted to.

Well, she seems to lean a bit on a Sal quite a bit, so I'm not sure that's a given.

Her Toe technique isn't really brilliant. It isn't even close to flawless. What is flawless is her ability to jump straight up without even drawing her foot back on the toe loop and rotate almost a full 3 turns without the built-in free half turn of a proper toe loop take-off. She does it every time. It does cause my jaw to drop consistently.

She has strong legs. Looks can be deceiving.

Ambivalent · Feb 10, 2013

SkateNater said:
Well, she seems to lean a bit on a Sal quite a bit, so I'm not sure that's a given.

Her Toe technique isn't really brilliant. It isn't even close to flawless. What is flawless is her ability to jump straight up without even drawing her foot back on the toe loop and rotate almost a full 3 turns without the built-in free half turn of a proper toe loop take-off.

She has strong legs. Looks can be deceiving.

I said "if she wanted to" for a reason. I am well aware that 3S isn't her best jump, but it's better than average and she can still get a +1GOE for it generally (plus the >halfway bonus). Certainly her 3T is more steady and less prone to UR calls than a 3Lo as the back half of a combination.

Can you please state your skating credentials as for evaluating toe technique? I am curious, because I have heard Scott and Kurt gush about it before and well, they're legends of the sport.

bekalc · Feb 10, 2013

SkateNater said:
There is a reason, however with the current point system there is a lot of ways you can make up ground in the FS. Gold is a better jumper and spinner than Gao, so she gains a lot of points there. She is faster, she has better transitions. CH and IN are only 2 parts of PCS, and given the rest of what Gao does that is not enough to overtake Gold when she skates clean. That is why Gold got the scores she got, which was in line with Tuktamysheva at Europeans for a similar skate with similar qualities - so I don't see what's so odd about her Nationals score... If Asada/Kim/Kostner skate clean programs they will probably still be close to 10 points higher than her, especially when you factor in their PCS lead in the short program to add onto it.

Gao is not going to get anywhere near the world Podium and unless she does a lot of improvement and some upgrades between now and Sochi she isn't going to the Olympics, either. The US isn't going to Gamble with a skater who hasn't been to Worlds again. That's why they were ready to put Sasha Cohen on the Podium in 2010 until she imploded in the FS at Nationals.

Nobody said that Gao should overtake Gold when Gold skates clean...The argument though was that Gold's horrific short program was held up and that Gold's PCS were far too high as well. Did I disagree with Gold placing above Gao in the long-No. I disagree with overall based on how bad Gold was in the short.

And as for Tukt. I think that Tukt at Europeans gave a much better performance (artistically than Gracie did) Tukt at moments frankly came ALIVE and really got into her music. She put some real passion into her program at the end Gracie didn't. And I actually find Tukt sloppier than Gracie, but Tukt right now is a better performer. And what I would point out is if your going to give Gracie that kind of score than Gao's free program score should have been a bit higher than it was too. Not 130, but around 123/124.

I'm sorry but Elizaveta interacted with the crowd at Europeans, Gracie didn't do anywhere near the same.. She tends to have a plastered grin on her face. And performance wise is a bit wooden.

Now I think Gracie can learn to perform better in time. But to say as a performance it compares to Tukt is something I heavily disagree with.

prettykeys · Feb 10, 2013

SkateNater said:
Well, she seems to lean a bit on a Sal quite a bit, so I'm not sure that's a given.

Her Toe technique isn't really brilliant. It isn't even close to flawless. What is flawless is her ability to jump straight up without even drawing her foot back on the toe loop and rotate almost a full 3 turns without the built-in free half turn of a proper toe loop take-off. She does it every time. It does cause my jaw to drop consistently.

She has strong legs. Looks can be deceiving.

A half-turn pre-rotation is not normal for a 3T, and YuNa doesn't usually get enough speed coming out of a 3S to realistically tack on a 3T.

SkateNater · Feb 10, 2013

prettykeys said:
A half-turn pre-rotation is not normal for a 3T, and YuNa doesn't usually get enough speed coming out of a 3S to realistically tack on a 3T.

It's not pre-rotation, it's just the jump mechanics. The jump takes off forwards, like almost all the other ones except the Axel which is more sideways.

Feast your eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=343MnzvKCew

She had a pretty good toe take-off on that one.

Ambivalent · Feb 10, 2013

prettykeys said:
A half-turn pre-rotation is not normal for a 3T, and YuNa doesn't usually get enough speed coming out of a 3S to realistically tack on a 3T.

There have been times in the past where YuNa has had less-than-ideal landings on the front end of her combinations and still managed to tack on a 3T... for example 2009 Worlds on I think both her 3F and 2A. Ah well maybe it's just the uber in me talking; I just love watching her 3-3s. :love:

aftertherain · Feb 10, 2013

Wait. Why are we talking about Yuna in a thread about an event that she didn't even enter again?

SkateNater · Feb 10, 2013

Ambivalent said:
There have been times in the past where YuNa has had less-than-ideal landings on the front end of her combinations and still managed to tack on a 3T... for example 2009 Worlds on I think both her 3F and 2A. Ah well maybe it's just the uber in me talking; I just love watching her 3-3s.

Yea, there were some in slow motion on YouTube but I can no longer find it as I cleared my favorites a while back. Both from a Flip and a DA she basically jumped straight up and rotated 3 full rotations. Very difficult.

SkateNater · Feb 10, 2013

aftertherain said:
Wait. Why are we talking about Yuna in a thread about an event that she didn't even enter again?

Because the event is over and now we're discussion what is to follow, assuming she shows up there. We spoke about Kostner and others (like Wagner, Mirai, etc.) as well!

4CC Ladies Free Skate

SkateNater

Match Penalty

hurrah

Ambivalent

aftertherain

prettykeys

minze

SkateNater

Match Penalty

Ambivalent

prettykeys

Mao88

aftertherain

SkateNater

Match Penalty

Ambivalent

bekalc

prettykeys

SkateNater

Match Penalty

Ambivalent

aftertherain

SkateNater

Match Penalty

SkateNater

Match Penalty

Similar threads

Connect with us