- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
What is your opinion? 
Should Paul Hamm Relinquish the AA Gold Medal?
- Thread starter RealtorGal
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
IDLERACER said:
Because "fiasco" is the operative word here. Beyond the obvious reason that these are two completely different situations, no sport would be willing to emulate the emabarassment that FS has, 2 years later, still failed to recover from.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Tough one to call. Too many 'ifs' involved. Yang finished in 3rd place. If he had won the high bar it would not be more than a couple of thousandths. Would that be enough for him to move pass his teamate and then Hamm? Then there is the judges scoring differently if his SV was correct? And I'm not convinced that the Koreans complained orally with no one listening at the time of the competition - not even a disinterested party to confirm they did. I can not imagine some official telling them to put it in writing the next day. hmmm.
Neither Yang nor Hamm are at fault. that's the sad part. Yang goes away feeling rejected. Hamm goes away feeling dejected.
I reluctantly vote Hamm as the winner!!
Hopefully, the officials now plan to have SVs shown in lights while the athlete is about to execute his routine and keeping that SV on until he is finished.
Oh, the subjectivity of judged sports.
Joe
Neither Yang nor Hamm are at fault. that's the sad part. Yang goes away feeling rejected. Hamm goes away feeling dejected.
I reluctantly vote Hamm as the winner!!
Hopefully, the officials now plan to have SVs shown in lights while the athlete is about to execute his routine and keeping that SV on until he is finished.
Oh, the subjectivity of judged sports.
Joe
Several news columnists have suggested that Hamm should "do the right thing" and give the gold medal to Yang. They have said that without even considering that maybe Yang really wasn't the winner (a .2 mandatory deduction wasn't taken for one too many stops in Yang's routine).
How preposterous! It isn't the GOLD MEDAL Yang wants, it's the AA TITLE, and Hamm can't give him that.
How preposterous! It isn't the GOLD MEDAL Yang wants, it's the AA TITLE, and Hamm can't give him that.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Mathman said:
It's easy for someone like her to give up someone ELSE'S gold medal, isn't it? These journalists LOVE controversy, don't they? And they love to get as much mileage as they can from it!
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I huge NO!!!
Here is the article that I fully agree with. It points out that (1) we don't know how Yang would have performed with the lead, nor how the judges would have judged; and (2) while videotape shows that start value should have been 10.0, it also shows Yang should have taken a 0.2 deduction for 4 holds on the bar.
Here is the article that I fully agree with. It points out that (1) we don't know how Yang would have performed with the lead, nor how the judges would have judged; and (2) while videotape shows that start value should have been 10.0, it also shows Yang should have taken a 0.2 deduction for 4 holds on the bar.
I too say NO! The protest wasn't made according to the rules. I have a hard time believing the S. Koreans were told to wait. There were protests being made according to the rules throughout the competition and they should have noticed that. Paul won fair and square--especially with the news that Yang had 4 holds on the p-bars and wasn't deducted for that. (I would like them to scream this fact loud and clear so ALL know Paul is the Olympic AA Champion) If they review the routine they have to review the whole thing, not just the start value. There is no way of knowing how differently Yang would have performed on high bar had he been in the lead entering the 6th rotation.
P. Hamm made an incredible come back in the AA. To just medal was incredible, but to take the AA the way he did was an amazing feat. It's too bad that all this mess has to be dealt with. Hopefully something good will come out of this controversy--like people will pay more attention to Men's Gymnastics! I know I love it!
eliza88
P. Hamm made an incredible come back in the AA. To just medal was incredible, but to take the AA the way he did was an amazing feat. It's too bad that all this mess has to be dealt with. Hopefully something good will come out of this controversy--like people will pay more attention to Men's Gymnastics! I know I love it!
eliza88
The thing that's irritating me right now is an IOC member has suggested that Paul give up the gold medal voluntarily. Exactly why is it Paul's responsibility to fix their mess? Talk about wimping out! The governing bodies are supposed to take care of these kind of things, not the athletes 
Poor Paul. Going after the crowd had a fit over Alexsei Nemov's bar routine. He could have had a meltdown, like Svetlana Khorkina on the bar finals, and stomped off like a spoiled brat. Instead, he went on to do a medal-worthy bar routine. Yes, he must have loved the crowd's oohs and aahs during his routine. Let's face it, those three high release moves are flashy. But then, the crowd booed his scores. All in all, a strange night for a young man caught in a furor he didn't make and can't solve. (Personally, I think it is unsolvable.)
(Aside for Paul -- remember that the crowd cheered you and Nemov and the Italian winner. Forget the boos. They had nothing to do with you! I hope you finally get a chance to enjoy your accomplishments at these games. Because you were terrific.)
Start values and scoring are done by human beings, trying to follow incredibly complex rules. Every gymnast (and their coaches and federations) brings different interpretations to these rules. And, then, since noone is perfect all the time, judges must assign a value for what each gymnast does on each apparatus in every rotation of every competition. You don't have to be happy. And not everyone will be. No matter what.
(Aside for Paul -- remember that the crowd cheered you and Nemov and the Italian winner. Forget the boos. They had nothing to do with you! I hope you finally get a chance to enjoy your accomplishments at these games. Because you were terrific.)
Start values and scoring are done by human beings, trying to follow incredibly complex rules. Every gymnast (and their coaches and federations) brings different interpretations to these rules. And, then, since noone is perfect all the time, judges must assign a value for what each gymnast does on each apparatus in every rotation of every competition. You don't have to be happy. And not everyone will be. No matter what.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I think that is what several overzealous, head-line-hungry journalists would like us to believe. I'm sure it hasn't helped...but the rest of the world has eyes and ears. They see how horrific the judging has been in these Olympics. It certainly didn't seem like Hamm had any lack of support during his High Bar performance last night. I found the same article that Ptichka posted and I completely agree with it....the media went WAY too far this time. There was one scathing article on NBC.com that even made Hamm out as some sort of super villain!
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Thank you, Ptichka, for posting the link to the Sports Illustrated column. I think he was very kind in rebutting those other columnists who went bananas over the whole thing. The Koreans are entitled to their feelings and their formal complaints, but those hysterical people who clamored for Paul to step aside were unfair and out of line.
Bet that sometime in the next Olympic cycle, we hear of some new rule that gets the sobriquet, the Paul Hamm Rule.
Also, Mathman, can we do a poll on Christine Brennan. I liked you solution.
Bet that sometime in the next Olympic cycle, we hear of some new rule that gets the sobriquet, the Paul Hamm Rule.
Also, Mathman, can we do a poll on Christine Brennan. I liked you solution.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
I don't think Hamm should just hand over his gold medal to his rival. He has worked hard for it and one cannot easily part with it. Besides, he had nothing to do with the outcome. He did his routine. However, something did go wrong. I would not say he won it fair and square. He needs to let the authorities sort things out. I doubt that anything will come out of this. Gymnastics would not want a precedence of a duplicate gold medal. That could make things even worse in the future. I think it will all calm down after some time. In the hoopla, however, everyone seems to forget that had Paul not had that fall on the vault, there would not be any discussion. He would have won without any controversy. Let him share at least some responsibility in what is going on.
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