Very Interesting Article

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Dee4707

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #1

Very Interesting Article

Here is the site

<a href="http://groups.google.com/[email protected]" target="top">groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.sport.skating.ice.figure&selm=88a50ad0.0303121115.79118e4%40posting.google.com</a>

Dee

 

K

Kara Bear

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #2

Re: Very Interesting Article

theres some interesting comments in that...thanks dee

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #3

Very Interesting Article

ITA about the pro - am trend as part of the factor leading to the decline of pro skating.

Hmmm....., not sure about the artist v athlete idea. What is art and what is an artist is very subjective. JMHO, I think there should be a better way for an agent to promote his/her client w/o dragging other skaters in.

" Presently Cohen is a favorite no. 1. At U.S. Nationals everyone was
certain of her win. Sasha is a strong skater. She presents herself
well and has trademark elements, which plays very strongly in her
favor. What's the secret of Yagudin's success with audiences? The fact
that he executes even the simplest footwork like no one else. He
releases so much emotion that the audience goes wild. Her popularity
notwithstanding, Kwan is an athlete, first and foremost, and so is
Sarah Hughes. Cohen, meanwhile, is an artist. An audience has much
more fun watching an artist vs. those who just go about doing their
work like horses, with no emotion at all."


Artistically, the so call # 1 baby ballerina leaves me cold. (BTW, I have read one of her biggest fan made the same "cold" comment too) I don't find much "artistic" about her. I can count her spin revolutions, look at her amplitude, and understand why judges give the marks to her. But then appreciation of art is totally subjective. Who is # 1 shouldn't be subjective, even in a sport like figure skating I know how to count medals, and #1 baby ballerina is not yet #1, even if she wins worlds 03.

I Know,even a bias agent is not claiming his client as #1 in the world, just the #1 favorite. What is a <strong>favorite</strong> is kind of subjective too.

 

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mathman444

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #4

Re: Very Interesting Article

Thanks, Dee. These translations by Nadya are really interesting.

So let's see, Michelle Kwan skates like a horse with no emotion at all. Irina didn't tank at Salt Lake City, but rather outskated Sarah and deserved to win the gold medal. Everybody knew that audience favorite Sasha was going to win U.S. nationals.

Well, well. I'm sure that Mr. Zakarian's clients benefit from all his insight and skating savvy.

Mathman

 

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THIZfiyaVIETgrl

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #5

Re: Very Interesting Article

He has some interesting points about why pro skating declined.

Everything else,though, was just blah, blah, blah Europeans are better but Americans win b/c the judges have to give it to them.

What do you expect from the guy who back during the Oksana car accident kept on proudly telling people "I was the passenger."

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #6

Music anyone?

Interesting that the rabid fans, and agent of the #1 favorite baby ballerina loved to compare other skaters to animals. I have seen some baby ballerina fans described Sarah "looks like a shark". Another baby ballerina fan called Yoshie, "she jumps like an ox, but what is the use, she looks like one". Now #1 favorite's agent indirectly called Michelle and Sarah "horse". I think these rabid baby ballerina fans/ agent should get this program and compose a <strong>sequel</strong> to St. Saen's carnival of the animals.

It should be fun for some rabid Sasha fans to be composers for a day, and try out this program.

www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/fun/...game.shtml

( A quick check on St. Saens: He did not include the horse, ox, or shark)

Carnival Of The Animals: Intro and Royal March of the Lion
Carnival Of The Animals: Hens and Cockerels
Carnival Of The Animals: Wild Asses
Carnival Of The Animals: Tortoises
Carnival Of The Animals: The Elephant
Carnival Of The Animals: Kangaroos
Carnival Of The Animals: Aquarium

Carnival Of The Animals: People With Long Ears
Carnival Of The Animals: The Cuckoo in the Depths of the Woods
Carnival Of The Animals: Aviary
Carnival Of The Animals: Pianists
Carnival Of The Animals: Fossils
Carnival Of The Animals: The Swan
Carnival Of The Animals: Finale

More music idea:

Over the years, my experience of betting my $ on a baby ballerina win can be summarized by Handel's Concerto for Organ in F major, HWV 295 , aka Cuckoo and the Nightingale. The majority of the time my $ went cuckoo, there wasn't much nightingale from major international competitions yet. What can I say, in my defense, I was sucked into the <strong>HYPE</strong>. Even sharks, and horses bring home Olympic/ world and junioir world medals. I know, I earned a little $ on GPF.

Track 15 -18

www.towerrecords.com/prod...id=2311958

 

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Jules Asner

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #7

Re: Music anyone?

I guess he has a conflict of interest - he is good friends with Irina so of course he wanted her to win in salt lake but it seems her prefers Sasha but won't say it due to not wanting to betray his friend. I think he is wrong about Plushenko - I think he comes across very well to the American public in his interviews. Even if his english is not perfect his personality still shines through and he seems very likeable and sweet. I think Michelle is the most artistic of the American girls, Sarah and Michelle the most competetive. Sasha is the most balletic but needs to stop thinking and let her presentation speak for itself and let her emotions out in her performances a bit more. In other words, she needs to loosen up a bit. Kwan lets her emotions out on the ice, Sarah sometimes skates frantically in a way that reminds me of Alexander Abt but Sasha is very much in control of every move. Her presentation and style are wonderful but she needs to add more emotion - a la Yagudin style- perhaps she did this at GPF, I will have to wait and see. I do think she was favored to win US Nat's, but she would have had to skate cleanly or hope for mistakes from MK and Sarah and she got neither of these. She was not really a shoe-in and the title was pretty much up for grabs.

 

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SHINE2002

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #8

Re: Music anyone?

Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes skate like horses eh. What an insult it must have been for Sasha, the human artist. I mean, she has lost to, not other humans, but horses! And not once, but multiple times! Gee, I really feel sorry for Sasha.

 

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DORISPULASKI

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #9

Re: Music anyone?

I always find this artist/athlete theme that agents have drummed on since 1980 or so is generally based on nothing but self-serving promotion by the agent of their client who has lost in some event. If the client won they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, "the whole package". If they lost, they are "artists" while the winners of the event who were not clients of that agent are diss-ed as being 'Horse", "athletes", "not artists".

What crap. And we are all still falling for it?.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT="">

dpp

 

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rgirl181

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #10

Re: Athlete/Artist

Doris,
I couldn't agree more. I think the only "horse" in this article is Zakarian.
Rgirl

 

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rgirl181

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #11

Re: Very Interesting Article

Thanks, Dee and to Nadia for the translation. Very interesting about Tom Collins's reaction to Todd and B&S leaving COI. With all the talent out there, I wouldn't think Collins would be that upset, but I guess there's a real war with SOI. As for Ari's comments about artistry, well, he's entitled to his opinion

But I have a question. I got the idea from the article that Zakarian personally only represents Plushenko and that when answered the following, he was referring to the management group in general. Does anybody know which is which?

Q. Who are your clients?
A. Many key figures in the sport. Sasha Cohen, Fumie Suguri,
Totmianina/Marinin, Lang/Chernyshev, Tim Goebel, Victor Petrenko. And
Evgeny.
Q. What exactly are your responsibilities as Plushenko's agent?

Rgirl

 

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Joesitz

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #12

Re: Very Interesting Article

My impressions of Zacharian is simply that the Russians do no wrong and the only other figure skater of interest to him is Sasha Cohen. So be it, it's his right. But I think other opinions of figure skating are also a right.

He talked about two ProAms already completed. Where was I? Anyone know who skated and who won?

I do agree with him that the state of figure skating is in decline.

Joe

 

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mathman444

Guest

• Mar 13, 2003

• #13

Re: Very Interesting Article

Rgirl, about Tom Collins' reaction to losing Todd Eldredge and Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze to Stars on Ice, we have only Zakarian's view as to just how "upset" Collins was. Todd is a crowd pleaser, but with Michelle, Irina, Sasha and Sarah still in the show, I don't think that Collins was crying all that much.

And he wasn't exactly hurting for popular men with Plushenko and Galindo.

About the management resonsibilities at Collins Marshall Management, I got the same impression that you did. That Zakarian personally handles only Plushenko. BTW, they also do Punsalan and Swallow, AP McDonough and Johnny Weir. Here's their web site. They don't seem to give out information about which individual is assigned to which skater.

www.cmmskating.com/

Mathman

 

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Nadine

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #14

Sasha Cohen...

Just a few comments...

Ever since Sasha Cohen came to prominence in 2000, I've read a lot of articles where Russians or those from the old Soviet Union are big fans of Sasha........and rightfully so.........but I have to be honest and say that the way in which the majority of them have expressed their appreciation of Sasha by either directly or subtlely putting down the other Americans in the process has made me ambivalent about Sasha. That is, sometimes I root for her & other times I don't, depending on if I perceive her as an underdog or not (btw I love underdogs). (;^)

It doesn't help that from the beginning I never really liked Sasha or her skating.......not just b/c of the hype.......but the way she came across to me when I first saw her skate at a televised pro/am in the fall of 1999 - emotionless, cold, hard, beautiful, petite, extremely flexible, exquisite extension/stretch/pointed toes. But she didn't touch my soul in any way whatsoever, which makes me instantly a fan of a skater or not. However, after finding out that one of my all-time favorite skaters (Oksana Baiul) was a big fan of Sasha's, I tried to warm up to her over the years & finally succeeded somewhat this past year. Still, I truly don't think I will ever be a big fan of Sasha, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that she has superb presentation & has even raised the bar IMHO. BTW, presentation is different from artistry, something I have never personally seen from Sasha. JMHO.

Last note, comments from people such as TT, Maria Butyrskaya, and Ari Zacharian about Sasha Cohen (as seen this past week) do not endear me to Sasha. However, I try to separate Sasha from them. And remember that she is an American and a great skater.

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. I see Sasha is learning the subtlety of the art of how to become an ice princess (LOL), but I have to say in a way I miss the old Sasha b/c the one thing I was sure of is that I always knew she was telling the truth (even if I didn't always agree with what she said). (;^)

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #15

Sasha and Sarah

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>but the way she came across to me when I first saw her skate at a televised pro/am in the fall of 1999 - emotionless, cold, hard, beautiful, petite, extremely flexible, exquisite extension/stretch/pointed toes. But she didn't touch my soul in any way whatsoever[/quote]

ITA. In the summer of 98 I watched the 13 y.o Sarah's lp shown on tv GWG. I instantly like her, Sarah smiled, related to the audience. Peggy Flemming mentioned that many times in her commentary. Sarah's skating is honest, and she she takes the time to understand the music. Sarah is the artistic one, IMHO. Of course she has an Olympic gold, world bronze medal, and a junior world medal too.

 

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mathman444

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #16

Re: Sasha Cohen...

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Last note, comments from people such as TT, Maria Butyrskaya, and Ari Zacharian about Sasha Cohen (as seen this past week) do not endear me to Sasha. However, I try to separate Sasha from them.[/quote] I agree 100% with that, Nadine. To me, that's the whole thing right there.

So many times fans of one skater or another will spout off so annoyingly that I start disliking the skater because of the fans.

I used to do that myself -- spout off annoyingly, that is, in praise of my favorite (guess who?) My New Year's resolution was to find something to like in every skater.

(signed) Candide, brother of Pollyanna.

PS. There is one thing that I do completely agree with Mr. Z. about: "Michelle Kwan is an athlete."

Yes, she is. And she'd got seven national titles and four world championships to prove it.

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #17

off topic

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>My New Year's resolution was to find something to like in every skater[/quote]

Interesting ideal. BTW, off topic how are you handling the different composers. Do you try to find something you like in every musician/ soloist/ composer? How is the coming to terms with good ole Sam Barber?

 

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Dee4707

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #18

Re: Sasha Cohen...

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>in praise of my favorite (guess who?)[/quote]
Golly Mathman, I wonder who that could be, as if everyone in the whole world doesn't know who your favorite is.

I have really made an effort to try not to spout off, and to be honest, it is really hard at times. I noticed another thing we all do is sometimes blame the skaters for something they have no control over. For instance, people get upset when the commentators talk about Alexei's footwork. Well, Alexei has no control over what the commentators say but some people want to put their fist through the TV. So everyone gets on Alexei and on, and on.......................and on.

Dee

 

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mathman444

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #19

Re: off topic

Hey, Dee, it's pretty hard not to want to spout off in defense of Alexei. He gives everything he's got in every performance, even despite career threatening injuries.

Eltamina, I'm working on Barber. The VC has wonderful moments. So does "Shelley" for that matter. We'll see.

MM

 

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Princess Leppard 625

Guest

• Mar 14, 2003

• #20

Re: off topic

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">I have to agree with Jules about Ari's comments about Evgeni. His English is just fine; he handled several American women babbling at him for an extended period of time very well, and I think he's handled some difficult questions from the media quite well, too. Ari makes him sound like a bumpkin from Siberia. And he calls himself Evgeni's friend? Good Lord.

And I must agree with Eltamina and others about Sasha Cohen. She has amazing extension on her spirals, but someone on another thread said the skates with a "look at me" attitude. When she starts to skate with some real emotion, then I might be a fan.

I think what makes Michelle Kwan so popular with the American audience (and other audiences) is her ability to be gracious when she wins and loses. Evgeni does the same thing; Ari should be aware of this?

Cheers,

Laura </span>