Adult beginner: do I already need new skates?

[Mariposa22]

Hello. I'm an adult beginner who started skating about 6 months ago. I'm F, 46 years old, 5'5" (165cm), 145lbs (65.5kg), and I'm currently in Jackson Artistes with Mark IV blades. I skate 2-4 hours a week, broken up into 2-3 sessions. I'm working on my backward edges right now. My coach is telling me that my current skates are holding me back because I can't rely on the stiffness of the boot to get on the edge; I have to do everything with my foot and ankle. She says I can safely skate in what I have for a few more months, but she wouldn't teach me even a waltz jump in my current skates. She says I don't need the stiffness of Freestyles at this point and advised getting boots a level just below that.

Does boot stiffness help significantly with edge control? My forward edges are great; I can even do them in decently sharpened rentals. I was hoping to get through at least my basic skills in what I have, and then move up to skates that will last me for a few years.

It was a process to get my current skates comfortable and working for me. I'm in a C width, and while the toebox of the Jackson Artistes seemed to have plenty (too much?) of up & down room, they really pinched the sides of my wide feet. I had to get some aggressive punch-outs for them to be comfortable. I also moved the blades back and forth, and finally had shims put in under my inner feet, to deal with my supination problem. Forward 1-foot glide is now great, and, like I said, I can now do alternating forward edges with no problem whatsoever.

I'm just wary of going through this process again with a new pair of boots, and perhaps a pair after that in a short time. But I don't want to get into boots that will be too stiff for me to break in at my skill level, either. Any recommendations appreciated. Would also appreciate recommendations for a good skate fitter. I live in NYC.

Thanks!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hello. I'm an adult beginner who started skating about 6 months ago. I'm F, 46 years old, 5'5" (165cm), 145lbs (65.5kg), and I'm currently in Jackson Artistes with Mark IV blades. I skate 2-4 hours a week, broken up into 2-3 sessions. I'm working on my backward edges right now. My coach is telling me that my current skates are holding me back because I can't rely on the stiffness of the boot to get on the edge; I have to do everything with my foot and ankle. She says I can safely skate in what I have for a few more months, but she wouldn't teach me even a waltz jump in my current skates. She says I don't need the stiffness of Freestyles at this point and advised getting boots a level just below that.

Does boot stiffness help significantly with edge control? My forward edges are great; I can even do them in decently sharpened rentals. I was hoping to get through at least my basic skills in what I have, and then move up to skates that will last me for a few years.

It was a process to get my current skates comfortable and working for me. I'm in a C width, and while the toebox of the Jackson Artistes seemed to have plenty (too much?) of up & down room, they really pinched the sides of my wide feet. I had to get some aggressive punch-outs for them to be comfortable. I also moved the blades back and forth, and finally had shims put in under my inner feet, to deal with my supination problem. Forward 1-foot glide is now great, and, like I said, I can now do alternating forward edges with no problem whatsoever.

I'm just wary of going through this process again with a new pair of boots, and perhaps a pair after that in a short time. But I don't want to get into boots that will be too stiff for me to break in at my skill level, either. Any recommendations appreciated. Would also appreciate recommendations for a good skate fitter. I live in NYC.

Thanks!

Hi and welcome. You do not have enough stiffness in order to properly support you for any of these moves. I would have never put you in artistes to begin with, yes they are beginner boots, but for a 7 y/o, not an adult. Also, you don't need to be worrying about being put in a too stiff boot, b/c no one that knows what they are doing are going to put you in an elite level boot where you have to worry about stiffness as someone at your level. You're going to be put in something adequate or a little over adequate b/c sometimes you just have to do that with the manner in which skates are rated for stiffness.

Now, Jackson is probably going to be the best for you because they are the widest boot manufacturer, though you may need a semi custom to get the higher stiffness. Synergy Pro by Jackson allows you to fit the boot to you, you can also customize the stiffness and a 60 would be adequate for you at this level and take you for some time thereafter. If you want a stock boot look at the Premier Fusion (2800).

As far as blades for those boots, a traditional intermediate blade will work wonderfully for you, look at MK Pro or JW Coronation Ace.

I will DM you with the trusted fitter I know of as a pro in your area!

Good luck!

 

[Mariposa22]

Hi and welcome. You do not have enough stiffness in order to properly support you for any of these moves. I would have never put you in artistes to begin with, yes they are beginner boots, but for a 7 y/o, not an adult. Also, you don't need to be worrying about being put in a too stiff boot, b/c no one that knows what they are doing are going to put you in an elite level boot where you have to worry about stiffness as someone at your level. You're going to be put in something adequate or a little over adequate b/c sometimes you just have to do that with the manner in which skates are rated for stiffness.

Now, Jackson is probably going to be the best for you because they are the widest boot manufacturer, though you may need a semi custom to get the higher stiffness. Synergy Pro by Jackson allows you to fit the boot to you, you can also customize the stiffness and a 60 would be adequate for you at this level and take you for some time thereafter. If you want a stock boot look at the Premier Fusion (2800).

As far as blades for those boots, a traditional intermediate blade will work wonderfully for you, look at MK Pro or JW Coronation Ace.

I will DM you with the trusted fitter I know of as a pro in your area!

Good luck!

Thank you so much for this advice. I would much rather get properly fitted boots that will last for a while than spend $400 now, only to have to go through the process again in a short time.

Right now, in Artistes, it's hard to know if that wobble in my crossover or forward edges is due to lack of support in my boot, or my skills. I have to say, if I get the Synergy Pro, I'll be in significantly fancier skates than anyone at my level at my rink. But my main goal is to be in skates that won't risk me getting injured or impede my progress.

I think I wasn't taken at all seriously at the skate fitter I went to initially. I could barely get him to look at my feet, or even measure the length. Most people who start at my age, at practically zero skill level, probably don't continue, or they become recreational skaters.

I will get in touch with the fitter you suggested and report back after I'm able to make my way there. I hope to enjoy this sport for years to come.

 

[Mariposa22]

Posting an update after I made my way to the fitter that @Ic3Rabbit recommended, in case it helps anyone else.

He said that the Artistes are fine(!) for my level of skating. He said I could do jumps up to a single axel on these skates, as long as my ankles are secured against any lateral displacement. The problem is, I haven't been getting the proper ankle support because I haven't been tying my laces properly. Since I have such a wide forefoot, I can tie the laces loosely until I get past the "knuckles" (meta-tarsal phalangeal joints), then tightly, and lock the laces with a 2-loop knot right before the hooks. Then tightly all the way up. I've read posts here from people who leave their top hooks untied even, but I'm bigger than many high-level skaters, with a relatively narrow heel, and this does feel much more secure against any lateral displacement.

Unfortunately, having securely laced skates created additional alignment problems, and you can't really move the blades back and forth on the Artiste due to its plastic sole. He cut some really large Superfeet for me (like, size F); my arches weren't touching the footbed of the skates at all before. This corrected the too much "up and down" space in the toebox, and because so much more of my feet are in contact with the skates (both the tops of my toes & arches), it significantly helped with being able to get aligned while skating.

There's a crease developing along the ankle of my skates, but they still have support left (probably because I wasn't really making use of what stiffness is in them before). So I'm just going to skate in what I have until they're dead. Especially since it's taken so much adjustment to get them working for me. Hoping to get 6 more months; we'll see.

When these are dead, I'll probably get Debuts in a split width, with the heels of the blades moved outwards, and large Superfeet again, ha. Paired with an intermediate blade.

I took up so much of this trusted skate tech's time today, and he charged me exactly 0 for it and his expertise. Oh, and I saw Oona and Gage Brown sitting there waiting for him to finish sharpening their skates when I walked in. Also Lindsay Thorngren was throwing down triple-triples on the same ice when I went out to test the adjustments.

Really, really appreciate how he took my needs as an adult beginner seriously, even though he works with all these elite skaters. I was prepared to spend $1000 on new skates, if he told me that's what I needed, but he didn't.

Thanks so much for the recommendation.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

This is great news. A good skate fitter/tech knows that fitting properly and being honest and trustworthy is a good investment. You'll go back to this one in the future. Having been fitted properly and knowing there is proper help available is something that keeps many adults in the sport when they might otherwise have thrown in the towel.

Happy skating!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Posting an update after I made my way to the fitter that @Ic3Rabbit recommended, in case it helps anyone else.

He said that the Artistes are fine(!) for my level of skating. He said I could do jumps up to a single axel on these skates, as long as my ankles are secured against any lateral displacement. The problem is, I haven't been getting the proper ankle support because I haven't been tying my laces properly. Since I have such a wide forefoot, I can tie the laces loosely until I get past the "knuckles" (meta-tarsal phalangeal joints), then tightly, and lock the laces with a 2-loop knot right before the hooks. Then tightly all the way up. I've read posts here from people who leave their top hooks untied even, but I'm bigger than many high-level skaters, with a relatively narrow heel, and this does feel much more secure against any lateral displacement.

Unfortunately, having securely laced skates created additional alignment problems, and you can't really move the blades back and forth on the Artiste due to its plastic sole. He cut some really large Superfeet for me (like, size F); my arches weren't touching the footbed of the skates at all before. This corrected the too much "up and down" space in the toebox, and because so much more of my feet are in contact with the skates (both the tops of my toes & arches), it significantly helped with being able to get aligned while skating.

There's a crease developing along the ankle of my skates, but they still have support left (probably because I wasn't really making use of what stiffness is in them before). So I'm just going to skate in what I have until they're dead. Especially since it's taken so much adjustment to get them working for me. Hoping to get 6 more months; we'll see.

When these are dead, I'll probably get Debuts in a split width, with the heels of the blades moved outwards, and large Superfeet again, ha. Paired with an intermediate blade.

I took up so much of this trusted skate tech's time today, and he charged me exactly 0 for it and his expertise. Oh, and I saw Oona and Gage Brown sitting there waiting for him to finish sharpening their skates when I walked in. Also Lindsay Thorngren was throwing down triple-triples on the same ice when I went out to test the adjustments.

Really, really appreciate how he took my needs as an adult beginner seriously, even though he works with all these elite skaters. I was prepared to spend $1000 on new skates, if he told me that's what I needed, but he didn't.

Thanks so much for the recommendation.

I'm glad all worked out. I'm a little anxious that he told you that artistes will hold you into singles (larger adult should have stiffer boots IMO and experience), but if it works for you and you aren't going to hurt yourself then fine.

 

[Mariposa22]

I'm glad all worked out. I'm a little anxious that he told you that artistes will hold you into singles (larger adult should have stiffer boots IMO and experience), but if it works for you and you aren't going to hurt yourself then fine.

I'm a little surprised he said that Artistes would hold me into singles, too. Personally, I don't plan on doing that. I hope to learn the rest of my basic skills on what I have: back edges, back crossovers, 3-turns, etc, while making sure the skates retain lateral stability. Now that I'm lacing them up much more tightly around the ankles, I might be killing them dead in 2 months. We'll see.

I told him how much I weigh, and how much I'm skating. He seemed to think 2-4 hours a week wasn't a lot, and seemed to feel that someone skating more like 5-10 hours a week needed a much stiffer boot + separate blades. I'll report back on my experience.

 

[Mariposa22]

Update: As predicted, with tight lacing, I killed the Artistes pretty quickly. Within 1-2 months, big creases were forming on every side of the ankles. It took a while for me to get back to the fitter, though, and the last few months I stopped with the coaching or trying to learn new skills and was mostly skating for the exercise.

I got Jackson Debuts (50 stiffness) with Coronation Ace blades and tried them on the ice for the first time this week. He told me that custom anything right now is taking 3-4 months, and he was able to make the stock boot in W work for me by stretching them a couple of times. I didn't grow up skating, and I don't have bunions or hammertoes, just a wide foot at the ball, so the stock boot was decently comfortable after stretching.

But man, is the boot hard. He initially had me try on an Entre (40 stiffness) but agreed that I would probably kill those within a year. When he saw that I still had a pretty good knee bend in the Debuts, he said those were good boots for me.

So I went from a stiffness of 20 to 50 AND a beginner 8' rocker profile to the 7' CA. The setup is so different, at first I felt like I could barely skate. But I haven't been skating that long and got used to it pretty quickly; got most of my skills back by the end of the session. I did notice that my backwards skating was immediately better.

The top of the boots against my 1st metatarsal-phalangeal joint felt particularly hard and uncomfortable while skating, but I didn't have any significant foot pain after 1.5 hours. Switching out the Sidas figure skating inserts out for my old Superfeet also made it significantly more comfortable.

ETA: Thanks especially to @Ic3Rabbit for the help and recommendations!

 

[tstop4me]

Switching out the Sidas figure skating inserts out for my old Superfeet also made it significantly more comfortable.

What Sidas inserts do you have? I never heard of the brand before, so I looked it up. But on their website, I didn't find anything specifically listed for figure skates or hockey skates [entering a generic search for "skate" directs you to an entry for skating Nordic cross-country skiers]. Whereas on the Superfeet website, if you search for "figure skate", they refer you to their hockey insoles.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Update: As predicted, with tight lacing, I killed the Artistes pretty quickly. Within 1-2 months, big creases were forming on every side of the ankles. It took a while for me to get back to the fitter, though, and the last few months I stopped with the coaching or trying to learn new skills and was mostly skating for the exercise.

I got Jackson Debuts (50 stiffness) with Coronation Ace blades and tried them on the ice for the first time this week. He told me that custom anything right now is taking 3-4 months, and he was able to make the stock boot in W work for me by stretching them a couple of times. I didn't grow up skating, and I don't have bunions or hammertoes, just a wide foot at the ball, so the stock boot was decently comfortable after stretching.

But man, is the boot hard. He initially had me try on an Entre (40 stiffness) but agreed that I would probably kill those within a year. When he saw that I still had a pretty good knee bend in the Debuts, he said those were good boots for me.

So I went from a stiffness of 20 to 50 AND a beginner 8' rocker profile to the 7' CA. The setup is so different, at first I felt like I could barely skate. But I haven't been skating that long and got used to it pretty quickly; got most of my skills back by the end of the session. I did notice that my backwards skating was immediately better.

The top of the boots against my 1st metatarsal-phalangeal joint felt particularly hard and uncomfortable while skating, but I didn't have any significant foot pain after 1.5 hours. Switching out the Sidas figure skating inserts out for my old Superfeet also made it significantly more comfortable.

ETA: Thanks especially to @Ic3Rabbit for the help and recommendations!

You have a great fitter. Keep him!

 

[Mariposa22]

What Sidas inserts do you have? I never heard of the brand before, so I looked it up. But on their website, I didn't find anything specifically listed for figure skates or hockey skates [entering a generic search for "skate" directs you to an entry for skating Nordic cross-country skiers]. Whereas on the Superfeet website, if you search for "figure skate", they refer you to their hockey insoles.

The Sidas inserts I got look like this:

3D COMFORT

Anatomical insoles designed for optimum comfort and active support for the foot. - Top layer: Cushioning & antibacterial

sidas-usa.store

The pro shop near me says on their website they sell custom figure skating Sidas insoles, but at $150, this must be a different product:

Service Work - westsideskate figure skating

Includes:

westsideskate.com

Superfeet are hockey insoles, but seems like many figure skaters also use them?

I realized today I've been tying my laces too tightly at the mid-foot, giving me arch pain with any insole. I was used to doing this with the Artistes, to squeeze out the last of their support.

 

[tstop4me]

Thanks for the info on Sidas. I'll file it away in my memory bank.

Superfeet are hockey insoles, but seems like many figure skaters also use them?

Yes, some models of Superfeet are specifically marketed for hockey, but the same ones are also used by figure skaters. Skates (hockey or figure) are closely fitted; hence, there is little room to accommodate insoles. Among other requirements for skate insoles, they must be "low volume".