Are skaters jumps limited by their natural innate ability/genetics?

[Greengemmonster]

Was reading the Isabeau Levito thread and someone mentioned that she didn't have strong legs.

Anyways I'm not here to debate that but it did get me thinking. Is a skater's ability limited by what they've been gifted with genetically or can good jumps and technique be taught even by someone with a physique less ideal for skating?

Say if I take Ilia, Nathan, Yuma and teach them the most sketchy jumps that I can since childhood, would they have grown up with poor jumps or would they naturally have reverted to much better jumps due to being naturally gifted?

So for the skaters who are branded with poor technique and ugly, small jumps, could that have been completely fixed and different with say the best coaching?

Or are they just born that way and you teach them the best way to eek out the jumps and land them?

Disclaimer: I cannot even move 1m on ice so forgive me if my questions sound really dumb

 

[Ziotic]

Short answer, yes. Genetics matter, some people will just never be able to land certain jumps with consistency.

You can work a technique all you want but it still may not work.

 

[macy]

it's both. genetics, body composition and height/shape do matter.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Think of in chemistry, when you have a chemical reaction. There will usually be a limiting reagent.
Same in sport - for some it's talent, some genetics, some training, some technique, some luck, some intelligence. Unless you have the right combination of everything, something (or multiple things) will limit your success.

That's not to say a skater missing one thing cannot reach a reasonable level, but you need everything to reach the top level.

 

[noskates]

I think body type has a lot to do with how fast and how tight a skater can rotate a jump. For example, Nathan, Yuzu, Tim Goebel, Ilia......all have slim, lithe bodies. In addition, innate athleticism and good basics are necessary. Using Jason as an example, somewhere I read that Kori taught his jumps in a certain way that precluded his ability to consistently rotate and/or land quads. By the time he was in Toronto he had to rework all his jumps. But at his age and after so many years of doing them a certain way, it's hard to retrain the brain and the body. So a skater can be uber talented but if not taught proper technique....... Another example is a skater who wraps his or her leg when they rotate. There's no way they will get the speed in the jump to rotate some of the jumps successfully. Think Sylvia Fontana for one.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I think body type has a lot to do with how fast and how tight a skater can rotate a jump. For example, Nathan, Yuzu, Tim Goebel, Ilia......all have slim, lithe bodies. In addition, innate athleticism and good basics are necessary. Using Jason as an example, somewhere I read that Kori taught his jumps in a certain way that precluded his ability to consistently rotate and/or land quads. By the time he was in Toronto he had to rework all his jumps. But at his age and after so many years of doing them a certain way, it's hard to retrain the brain and the body. So a skater can be uber talented but if not taught proper technique....... Another example is a skater who wraps his or her leg when they rotate. There's no way they will get the speed in the jump to rotate some of the jumps successfully. Think Sylvia Fontana for one.

On the leg wrap, sometimes you can get away with it if you have the right body type - e.g. Midori Ito. It doesn't mean it's efficient or good, but an example of where its possible to overcome a technical inefficiency that isn't ideal.

 

[Amei]

Genetics can certainly play a factor, some people don't get muscles/strength the way others do. Look at Trusova and Shcherbakova since 2016 with the exception of about 10-12 months last season when Trusova was with Plushenko they have been trained by the same coaching team, Trusova is solid defined muscles, Shcherbakova is not - do we really think their training regiments are drastically different?

 

[mskater93]

On the leg wrap, sometimes you can get away with it if you have the right body type - e.g. Midori Ito. It doesn't mean it's efficient or good, but an example of where its possible to overcome a technical inefficiency that isn't ideal.

Everyone always points to Midori Ito as having a wrap, but if you compare her jumps to Nakano, it was TOTALLY different. Ito's position was/is (since she was still skating as of 2019) actually the first position achieved on the takeoff or conversion (from jumping to landing side) of a jump, she just never *had* to push down to get her ankles tight to rotate her jumps due to the sheer height she achieved. It was especially noticeable on loop/flip/Lutz because she pulled UP with the free hip on takeoff. There was not a tightness at the hips/thighs, but free leg hanging out from the knee position that would truly constitute a wrap, but more of an open figure 4 position. Nakano actually had a wrap which would reduce her speed of rotation to the point that everything was < or << where her thighs were closed together but her free leg was knee to knee with the lower leg outside the axis of rotation. Sorry for the segue, but I am a stickler about this technique...