Combination Jumps

[AmalieWaltz]

Hello. I am having a lot of trouble with combination jumps. I feel pretty comfortable with all the single rotation jumps by themselves but when I try to put them back to back in a combination jump, I have trouble and often times on the 2nd jump in the sequence, I don't even get all the way around. One example of a combination I'm having trouble with is a Lutz/Loop. My coach has told me that I need to land the Lutz with my free leg in front so that it's in the proper position for the Loop but I can't seem to do that. My free leg is always out to the side when I land. I've even tried snapping my hip over (like you do when you're transfering your weight in an axel) before I land to try to get the free leg to come over closer to the landing leg but it doesn't work. And if I land the Lutz with my free leg in back and then I take the time to move my free leg in front, I've taken too much time and I lose momentum for the 2nd jump. So I need to be landing with it in front so that I'll be ready to immediately go into the 2nd jump but how do I do this? I've watched others and it doesn't seem like anyone else has this issue, others are able to kind of keep the free foot in front of the landing leg the whole time during the jump. They're not wrapping their legs with singles but their free leg is staying in front of the other leg the whole time whereas mine are sort of side by side during the 1st jump. I think I must be doing something wrong with my technique in the first jump that's making it so hard to land with my free leg in front but I don't know what. When my feet takeoff for the Lutz, for example, my skating leg is in front of the toe pick leg but somehow in the process of the jump, my foot catches up to the other and they become side by side. Since I'm not supposed to cross my legs in a single, I don't know how to keep my legs from being side to side right before I land. I have the same issue with other combo jumps such as the Flip/Loop, the Loop/Loop etc... Any thoughts on how I can fix this? I know it's important for me to fix this now to not only improve the combo jumps but to also hopefully prepare for doubles someday. I would greatly appreciate any feedback that you are able to provide.

 

[gkelly]

Are you able to work on these combinations on a harness with your coach?

Ask the coach for other exercises you can work on to practice landing with your free foot in front, preparatory to learning loop combinations. But don't actually try the combinations until you can land in the correct position needed for those combinations.

You may have seen more advanced skaters landing jumps into a backspin or BO twizzle (as an exercise for getting the feel for double jumps, but it might also help for getting the feel of the landing position before loop combinations). Maybe that would be helpful for you.

Also, have you tried waltz-loop combinations? That should give you more time to get the feel of landing with the free foot in front.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hello. I am having a lot of trouble with combination jumps. I feel pretty comfortable with all the single rotation jumps by themselves but when I try to put them back to back in a combination jump, I have trouble and often times on the 2nd jump in the sequence, I don't even get all the way around. One example of a combination I'm having trouble with is a Lutz/Loop. My coach has told me that I need to land the Lutz with my free leg in front so that it's in the proper position for the Loop but I can't seem to do that. My free leg is always out to the side when I land. I've even tried snapping my hip over (like you do when you're transfering your weight in an axel) before I land to try to get the free leg to come over closer to the landing leg but it doesn't work. And if I land the Lutz with my free leg in back and then I take the time to move my free leg in front, I've taken too much time and I lose momentum for the 2nd jump. So I need to be landing with it in front so that I'll be ready to immediately go into the 2nd jump but how do I do this? I've watched others and it doesn't seem like anyone else has this issue, others are able to kind of keep the free foot in front of the landing leg the whole time during the jump. They're not wrapping their legs with singles but their free leg is staying in front of the other leg the whole time. I have the same issue with other combo jumps such as the Flip/Loop, the Loop/Loop etc... Any thoughts on how I can fix this? I know it's important for me to fix this now to not only improve the combo jumps but to also hopefully prepare for doubles someday. I would greatly appreciate any feedback that you are able to provide.

Bolded part: You mean open up your hip more? What you need is a combo of speed, height, rotation timing and snap, etc. Is there a coach at your rink trained on Pole Harness? If so, ask them to work with you on this.

 

[AmalieWaltz]

Are you able to work on these combinations on a harness with your coach?

Ask the coach for other exercises you can work on to practice landing with your free foot in front, preparatory to learning loop combinations. But don't actually try the combinations until you can land in the correct position needed for those combinations.

You may have seen more advanced skaters landing jumps into a backspin or BO twizzle (as an exercise for getting the feel for double jumps, but it might also help for getting the feel of the landing position before loop combinations). Maybe that would be helpful for you.

Also, have you tried waltz-loop combinations? That should give you more time to get the feel of landing with the free foot in front.

I haven't worked on these jumps on the harness yet. That's a good idea. I have been working on the waltz/backspin and waltz/loop and I'm able to land the waltz jump with my leg in front. Landing with my free leg in front on that one is a lot easier for me than on these other jumps. Thanks for your help.

 

[AmalieWaltz]

Bolded part: You mean open up your hip more? What you need is a combo of speed, height, rotation timing and snap, etc. Is there a coach at your rink trained on Pole Harness? If so, ask them to work with you on this.

I was trying to snap my hip in a counterclockwise direction before I land but I'm not sure if I should be doing that because it doesn't seem to be helping. I definitely need to improve all of the items you mentioned above, especially my speed. There are a few coaches trained on the harness so I will ask them about this because I haven't done any of these jumps on the harness. Thanks for your help.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I was trying to snap my hip in a counterclockwise direction before I land but I'm not sure if I should be doing that because it doesn't seem to be helping. I definitely need to improve all of the items you mentioned above, especially my speed. There are a few coaches trained on the harness so I will ask them about this because I haven't done any of these jumps on the harness. Thanks for your help.

The snap isn't exactly your hip per se, it's general snap which includes your core being solid and the movement of the shoulders/arms. Make sure your head is "anchored" because it's going to give you a better place to do the "snap" from. Also, make sure your shoulders are "square" in the air. If you are somehow twisting against your rotation, that's messing you up.

Definitely look into harness training with someone that knows what they are doing.

Good luck!

 

[AmalieWaltz]

The snap isn't exactly your hip per se, it's general snap which includes your core being solid and the movement of the shoulders/arms. Make sure your head is "anchored" because it's going to give you a better place to do the "snap" from. Also, make sure your shoulders are "square" in the air. If you are somehow twisting against your rotation, that's messing you up.

Definitely look into harness training with someone that knows what they are doing.

Good luck!

Thank you for this explanation. I have been thinking about snapping just the hip but what you're saying makes total sense. And it's possible I might be twisting against the rotation. Next time I'm on the ice, I will try to be more aware of what my shoulders are doing during the jump, I'm usually focused just on the landing once I've take off, lol. I will plan to get on the harness, hopefully it will help a lot with my jumps. Thanks again.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

The one thing I sill say that I'm not sure has been covered in this thread is to insure the ideal first jump to get the rhythm for the second jump. For me, id recommend with toe combination, this means getting a lot of length on the first jump and lots of knee bend on the landing.

For loop, it's a bit different and I try to get a little drop onto the let to bend and get a good h position for the takeoff. This involves getting more height.

 

[AmalieWaltz]

The one thing I sill say that I'm not sure has been covered in this thread is to insure the ideal first jump to get the rhythm for the second jump. For me, id recommend with toe combination, this means getting a lot of length on the first jump and lots of knee bend on the landing.

For loop, it's a bit different and I try to get a little drop onto the let to bend and get a good h position for the takeoff. This involves getting more height

All of your points are good advice. It makes a lot of sense that the key to having a successful 2nd jump in the combo is to have the 1st jump be very solid. Thank you for your help.

 

[scottie99]

Other skaters DEFINITELY have this same issue! You are not alone. I struggled with this for so long! My single jumps are all solid (aside from axel) but I never got that crossed leg (which is why I couldn't get my axel). My coach started making me add a loop at the end of EVERY jump while I was practicing. It sucked, it was frustrating, and I absolutely hated it, but helped SO much with crossing my leg over and keeping it in that H-position. Ever since adding a loop after EVERY jump, I naturally go into that position after all my jumps now, even if it's not a combo.

While adding a loop to the end of every jump, I noticed my first jump was really good, but the loop was under-rotated. This was okay for the time being, as what we were focusing on was the leg position. However, once I got the position solid, we started to strengthen the loop. What I found was I was rushing the takeoff of the loop. So after landing my first jump, it helped to settle for a second, and then take off for my loop. Think about sinking back into that knee.

The lutz is probably one of the most difficult single jumps to add to a combo. Maybe consider working on a flip-loop, or even a waltz-loop before stressing too much over the lutz combo. The waltz-loop is an amazing combo to help prepare skaters for the axel too! Some things that also helped me are not actually doing the loop jump, but trying to land in that position (with your leg in the loop position). Do your first jump, and when you land, act as if you are doing a loop (aka sink into the knee) but don't actually take off. During this exercise, I would not do my normal check-outs. I would simply land in the loop position, and then just step forwards afterward. Not checking out, helped me stop focusing on getting that leg to the other side, and rather keep it crossed. Another thing that helped was focusing on my arms! I used to just let my arms flair around, but once I started focusing on bringing them in, my leg followed! Between my first jump and my loop, I actually keep my arms checked (on my chest). I know this is a habit that I will need to fix later on (when working on doubles, as I will need the arms to rotate), but since my main focus was keeping my leg crossed, this is what helped. One step at a time!

One thing I can recommend is off-ice! I can't stress this enough! Practice all your combo jumps off-ice and really focus on that position. I find loops difficult to rotate off-ice, but the position is what we are really working on, so don't worry too much about that.

 

[AmalieWaltz]

Other skaters DEFINITELY have this same issue! You are not alone. I struggled with this for so long! My single jumps are all solid (aside from axel) but I never got that crossed leg (which is why I couldn't get my axel). My coach started making me add a loop at the end of EVERY jump while I was practicing. It sucked, it was frustrating, and I absolutely hated it, but helped SO much with crossing my leg over and keeping it in that H-position. Ever since adding a loop after EVERY jump, I naturally go into that position after all my jumps now, even if it's not a combo.

While adding a loop to the end of every jump, I noticed my first jump was really good, but the loop was under-rotated. This was okay for the time being, as what we were focusing on was the leg position. However, once I got the position solid, we started to strengthen the loop. What I found was I was rushing the takeoff of the loop. So after landing my first jump, it helped to settle for a second, and then take off for my loop. Think about sinking back into that knee.

The lutz is probably one of the most difficult single jumps to add to a combo. Maybe consider working on a flip-loop, or even a waltz-loop before stressing too much over the lutz combo. The waltz-loop is an amazing combo to help prepare skaters for the axel too! Some things that also helped me are not actually doing the loop jump, but trying to land in that position (with your leg in the loop position). Do your first jump, and when you land, act as if you are doing a loop (aka sink into the knee) but don't actually take off. During this exercise, I would not do my normal check-outs. I would simply land in the loop position, and then just step forwards afterward. Not checking out, helped me stop focusing on getting that leg to the other side, and rather keep it crossed. Another thing that helped was focusing on my arms! I used to just let my arms flair around, but once I started focusing on bringing them in, my leg followed! Between my first jump and my loop, I actually keep my arms checked (on my chest). I know this is a habit that I will need to fix later on (when working on doubles, as I will need the arms to rotate), but since my main focus was keeping my leg crossed, this is what helped. One step at a time!

One thing I can recommend is off-ice! I can't stress this enough! Practice all your combo jumps off-ice and really focus on that position. I find loops difficult to rotate off-ice, but the position is what we are really working on, so don't worry too much about that.

Wow, so much great advice! Doing a loop after every jump as well as doing just one jump and then landing with legs in loop position should be very helpful to hopefully solve this problem. I've practiced a bunch of Waltz/Loops as a way to prep for the Axel and for some reason, I have no problem at all landing with my free leg in front after the Waltz. It's strange that I have no problem with that but a problem with all the others. I know that if I can learn to land the first jump in the loop position, it will solve my under rotation problem on the loop because when I'm doing a loop by itself, they get all the way around because I'm able to start with the free leg crossed over the takeoff leg. Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Wow, so much great advice! Doing a loop after every jump as well as doing just one jump and then landing with legs in loop position should be very helpful to hopefully solve this problem. I've practiced a bunch of Waltz/Loops as a way to prep for the Axel and for some reason, I have no problem at all landing with my free leg in front after the Waltz. It's strange that I have no problem with that but a problem with all the others. I know that if I can learn to land the first jump in the loop position, it will solve my under rotation problem on the loop because when I'm doing a loop by itself, they get all the way around because I'm able to start with the free leg crossed over the takeoff leg. Thanks so much for your help.

No.