Do Adult skaters need stiffer boots?

[halflutz]

Hi everyone!

I’m a 24 year-old skater and have been skating since March 2022. I’m working on my single jumps now.

I posted a while ago that I was planning on getting new boots and blades, and everyone on here has basically advised me that I don't need high-level boots (like Ice Fly) and blades (like Phantom or Gold Star). Thank you for the advice btw!

But lately I've come across people saying that stiffness does not always relate to your skating level. This is especially true for adult skaters, and it is the reason why so many adult skaters get fitted for the wrong boot.
The coaches at my rink and some of the skaters on IG (who wear Piano and still practice single jumps) said that as an adult we are done growing. We typically aren't worried about going up a shoe size every year like younger skaters. We also land our jumps and fall a lot harder than children do. So we are most likely going to need stiffer boot.

Also, they said that because we are amateurs, unlike the professionals who jump triples and quads and change their skates 2 to 5 times per year, we can't afford to change our skates every year, so we need boots that are sturdier and not break down quickly.

I’m curious what’s your opinion about this and is it true that adult skaters need stiffer boots compared to the average skater?

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Hi everyone!

I’m a 24 year-old skater and have been skating since March 2022. I’m working on my single jumps now.

I posted a while ago that I was planning on getting new boots and blades, and everyone on here has basically advised me that I don't need high-level boots (like Ice Fly) and blades (like Phantom or Gold Star). Thank you for the advice btw!

But lately I've come across people saying that stiffness does not always relate to your skating level. This is especially true for adult skaters, and it is the reason why so many adult skaters get fitted for the wrong boot.
The coaches at my rink and some of the skaters on IG (who wear Piano and still practice single jumps) said that as an adult we are done growing. We typically aren't worried about going up a shoe size every year like younger skaters. We also land our jumps and fall a lot harder than children do. So we are most likely going to need stiffer boot.

Also, they said that because we are amateurs, unlike the professionals who jump triples and quads and change their skates 2 to 5 times per year, we can't afford to change our skates every year, so we need boots that are sturdier and not break down quickly.

I’m curious what’s your opinion about this and is it true that adult skaters need stiffer boots compared to the average skater?

Just like children and teens, adults need boots that are appropriate to their weight, skating level and style. Adult skaters are by far and away the best at coming up with "reasons" why they need boots and blades that actually restrict their skating and progress.

I don't know a single person (outside elites) who needs Edea Piano. Not one. But they all have arguments for why they do and, frankly, if they want to argue for those restrictions, they get to keep them. And while we're on the subject of Edea, there is absolutely no truth in the "you can't overboot in Edea" thing. You absolutely can. As a marketing ploy, it's genius but that's all it is. You may feel that you're comfortable but you'll be hampering your progress. I see it so often.

Adult skaters pay for their own skating and are obviously loath to invest in equipment that will break down in a matter of months; that is totally understandable. But they don't need elite boots to achieve that. There are boots for all levels of skating - and feet!

 

[Coach Aimee]

I’m curious what’s your opinion about this and is it true that adult skaters need stiffer boots compared to the average skater?

I would like you to change the word "stiffer" to "more supportive."

Support ratings provided by the manufacturers are based on the "average skater." For example, Jackson's fit guide only shows suggestions for "more than 115 pounds."

The truth is that depending on your size and body composition, adults can benefit from higher support ratings than the same-level skater at a lighter weight.

As far as Edea goes, my first pair of Edea was Ice Fly. I got them from a friend that was the same size as me. She only wore them once. I tried them and loved them and saw an immediate improvement! I upgraded to Piano after a few years and did not like them as much - although I was not over-booted. I just preferred the feel of Ice Fly.

When I finally decided to stop competing and coach full-time, I decided that Edea Concerto was better for me because of all the bending I do with the younger kids. That was absolutely the best decision. I love my Concertos!

The bottom line is that everyone is unique and has personal preferences. This is why it is so important to discuss the options with your coach and skate tech and try the options on at a professional fitting.

 

[melodying_with_edges]

Adult skater here-
Adult skaters should aim for stiffer skates appropriate for their height, weight, etc.
But…
We don’t need strong skates. We need strong ankles.

If adults plunge themselves into Pianos, Jackson Elite, Primes early, they’re likely to rely on the skates to hold them up, instead working on building strong, more stable ankles.

I honestly think adult skaters should be in moderately stiff boots if they are only doing singles because they have to build stronger ankles to withstand injuries… worst case scenario- we become complacent with using boots to hold us up.

Don’t go in anything higher than Premiere’s level

 

[Trensharo]

Adult skater here-
Adult skaters should aim for stiffer skates appropriate for their height, weight, etc.
But…
We don’t need strong skates. We need strong ankles.

Lots of people have really strong ankles, yet end up with ankle injuries trying to jump on broken down skates.

You have to look at the person skate (which is why Coach's are a good resource for gouging what a skater needs), because an Adult doing big singles may be putting more stress on their boots than a child doing doubles... and even some doing triples.

The skate has to handle the pressure both on the take-off and landing of the jump, flying spins, etc.

If adults plunge themselves into Pianos, Jackson Elite, Primes early, they’re likely to rely on the skates to hold them up, instead working on building strong, more stable ankles.

Edeas are not comparbale to Jacksons. The upper stiffness is for stability and lateral support only. It isn't designed to bend the way a pair of Jacksons or Risport boots are. The degree/ease of ankle flexion is controlled by lacing, and supported by the laces and tongue of the boot.

This does make Edea the best choice for Adults - assuming their feet can tolerate that brand - as it allows them to go for a stable boot with lots of laterel support without having to "pay for it" with a boot that they cannot flex in e.g. cannot "break in" they way they'd need to with Klingbeils, SP-Teris, Harlicks, Jacksons and other traditional leather boots.

The boots are also designed with tightly packed memory foam that also reduces that aspect of break-in, as well; eliminating it altogether for many people.

I honestly think adult skaters should be in moderately stiff boots if they are only doing singles because they have to build stronger ankles to withstand injuries… worst case scenario- we become complacent with using boots to hold us up.

Honestly, boots that are "too stiff" are generally less of an issue [generally speaking] because the discomfort is immediate and it impedes skating to such a level that most Adults will have exercise their agency and simply refuse to deal with them. Most Pros also will not recommend such a boot to the lower level adults and will question any new adult skater who asks for such a skate (you can't make them buy anything, but most will strongly dissuade - a few may even outright refuse).

However, no Pro will refuse to sell an Adult a pair of Ice Flies or Pianos, assuming they know how the skates work.

The issue with people going straight to higher end Edeas has less to do with the skate itself, and more to do with the monetary investment - especially when just starting out... Pianos are $1K a pair!

Skates that are too soft for a skater can often feel "amazing" when they are new, which runs the risk of the skater eventually developing bad habits or compensations with their own associated risk factors as the skates break in - to deal with how soft they are.

Adults also tend to bias towards comfort - particularly when they first start skating - because they have lived for decades in tennis shoes and sandals and aren't initially used to how properly fitting/supporting skates feel to wear. As a result, many do end up with skates that are too large and/or too soft.

It is very common to see adult skaters go up sizes to gain width or get boots that are too light for comfort reasons, and then have issues with those boots (debilitating foot pain, etc.).

If you put a beginning Adult Skater in Jackson Supremes or Risport Royal Primes, there is very little risk to them because they 86% of them will return them - assuming they even agree to take them out of the shop. The fact that they simply cannot skate in those boots is such an immediate realization. Most Pros will not even suggest such a boot to someone in that situation.

But Edea Concerto/Ice Fly/Piano are complete usable... by anyone... because they are legitimately different than something like a Jackson or Risport boot.

 

[LokiPoki]

The shop I went to didn't even want to let me try on Ice Fly's when I asked. I was asking to try them on just to compare with the other brands, because initially they felt AWFUL. I'm an adult skater too, so I knew I needed something stronger.

She seemed to have a rather intense dislike for Edea in general. I get that they don't work for everyone, but I was a bit miffed that she wouldn't even let me try, seemingly based on her own opinions.

I ended up with Edea Chorus, and they've been so wonderful.

 

[Trensharo]

The shop I went to didn't even want to let me try on Ice Fly's when I asked. I was asking to try them on just to compare with the other brands, because initially they felt AWFUL. I'm an adult skater too, so I knew I needed something stronger.

She seemed to have a rather intense dislike for Edea in general. I get that they don't work for everyone, but I was a bit miffed that she wouldn't even let me try, seemingly based on her own opinions.

I ended up with Edea Chorus, and they've been so wonderful.

It could be due to personal experience, high number of returns (probably not), or she didn't think you needed that skate at your level (waste of money).

If the Chorus is stiff enough and you won't break them, then I don't see any point in jumping to Ice Fly unless you're hard on boots.

 

[LokiPoki]

Yeah probably. Either way, I love my current boots.

My coach said I should get the Piano's, which I knew I didn't need at my level (only working on singles).

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

This is a bit of a tangent - but, whatever happened to the Edea Verve?

It’s listed in this catalogue from a couple years ago. It seems to share a lot of design characteristics with the Ice Fly, but in terms of support it slots between the Chorus and the Concerto. I remember thinking that it was a great move on their part to design a boot that would probably be just about right for a lot of adult skaters who might otherwise be interested in the Ice Fly/Piano, but don’t need that level of support and want to save some money. But I haven’t seen it for sale anywhere - not even online - and it doesn’t seem like it was ever listed on Edea’s website.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

FYI: All coaches don't know what's best for their skaters needs. Many speak while being clueless. That's why it's important to have a reputable skate pro/fitter.

 

[Trensharo]

FYI: All coaches don't know what's best for their skaters needs. Many speak while being clueless. That's why it's important to have a reputable skate pro/fitter.

Vast majority of Fitters and Pros also aren't orthopedic surgeons or podiatrists. I don't see the point.

In most cases they don't even see the skater skate in the boots they sell them. Skaters will sometimes switch Pros if they have a problem, as well, as they won't trust that person to be able to address it ("He sold me bad boots, why should I trust him to fix them?")

Coaches are on the ice with the skater. If they are that clueless, then find a better one or ask the skating director to get them some training.

Equipment has to be vetted at multiple levels.

Parents, coaches, pros... and the skaters medical team (doctors and specialists).

 

[Elija]

This is a bit of a tangent - but, whatever happened to the Edea Verve?

It’s listed in this catalogue from a couple years ago. It seems to share a lot of design characteristics with the Ice Fly, but in terms of support it slots between the Chorus and the Concerto. I remember thinking that it was a great move on their part to design a boot that would probably be just about right for a lot of adult skaters who might otherwise be interested in the Ice Fly/Piano, but don’t need that level of support and want to save some money. But I haven’t seen it for sale anywhere - not even online - and it doesn’t seem like it was ever listed on Edea’s website.

I wondered this too! They were also meant to be releasing a coaching boot that year (also in this catalogue). My coach was gonna give them a try, but I don’t think they never eventuated.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

The bottom line is that everyone is unique and has personal preferences. This is why it is so important to discuss the options with your coach and skate tech and try the options on at a professional fitting.

Most common sense advice in my humble opinion.

Not sure how it works in other countries but over here the senseis (coaches) send the skaters to a professional fitter they trust and use. Over there they make you fill up a form with your particulars, the name of the rink and club you belong to and the name of your sensei who sent you to them. And the first thing they ask is what skates and blades has the sensei recommended/suggested. Then go from there, try on a few models/options as it was recommended after the professional measures the feet and endorses the best options for the skater. If the skaters is an adult full of wants, wishes, specific budget and for whatever reason what he ends up wanting totally goes against what the sensei originally recommended, I've seen them calling and trying to reach a compromise.

It might seem like a childish treatment, but in my humble opinion, these are the professionals the adult skater has entrusted to oversee his skating skills/education and improvement, and that includes having proper equipment. Some go to the extra mile and also hire a physical therapist/personal trainer to oversee their off ice training and conditioning (what I've done recently, introduced and recommended by the sports hospital doctors/orthopaedists I recently saw due to a foot injury, and have plenty of experience with athletes/dancers).
These professionals see the skater in person, see how the body behaves skating, type of feet/legs, weight, height and history (an older adult with no experience in other sports or ballet, or any physical activity who just starts skating has different needs that younger adult who has experience and conditioning from another sport or ballet and skates, for example). Nothing beats being able to analyze this in person over some time.
This is why I'd trust the opinions of the senseis and other professionals who evaluate me in person anytime over any advice from the internet by someone who's never seen me. Same as I wouldn't buy such footwear online without any fitting in person, no matter how many awesome online reviews and recommendations there are.

Of course the sensei might make a mistake, or the professional fitter, same as the doctor might make a mistake, they are human. But again, they are professionals in their fields and the skater has hired/trusted them.