Lyra Angelica(Joy) vs. technicals of today?

[Skatetomusic]

As we approach the 2017/2018 season it is important to look back at what we had 20 years ago at what we had and what we have today. I think I'm having a hard time finding some of the disciplines to be as special(I hope that I'm not the only one). We have had so many pass through the sport since then but I do wish and hope that a bit more of the single skaters in particular look back to also help them move forward. We had a field of many skaters who were mature and many who were maturing. Butyrskaya, Chen, Kwan, Szewczenko etc. and others had well balanced and good presentation and choreography. There was more glide, spirit and freedom of expression out there and that is really missing in the sport today. I hope that more of the skaters can bring this to the table in this Olympic Season.

 

[lyverbird1]

I think these things go in cycles. People coming into the sport now and knowing only the IJS will tend to appreciate that more and may be less bothered by programmes designed more for milking the points system than the artistry itself. I used to be all about the singles skating and probably didn't bother much with ice dance but now, having attended a couple of world championships, I find that ice dance is becoming my favourite discipline.

I can't blame the skaters, they're working with the system as is and if stacking all the jumps in the second half and performing other tricks that may be less than pleasing to many purists (tanos/rippons/ugly contortions in spins etc) is what gets the points and the medals, then that's what they'll do. What do we do to encourage greater artistry and more balanced programmes though without discouraging technical advancement of the sport? Perhaps raise senior/Olympic age eligibility to 17 or 18? Create rules that would limit backloading and reliance on the same tricks repeatedly (as in the Zayak rule)? For every argument for, there'll be an argument against but I'd like to see more debate on that.

 

[moriel]

I find the top skaters today more pleasant to watch than the ones you listed. Maybe because I started watching FS in 2014, and what attracted me to the sport were the programs as they are done today.
Their porgrams are kinda empty and unpolished compared to today's top ladies.

I hope those things dont go in cycles and those changes come to stay.
Also, all those "the grass was greener" threads are, honestly, kinda boring. Let me guess, in 10 years, the forum will be full of people whining "omg remember medevedeva, she is so much better than all the skaters today, those programs nowadays are bland and lack artistry and maturity and whatever blablabla cry cry cry".

 

[andromache]

I love so many 6.0 programs, but those programs have way less choreography/transitions/etc than current programs. Look at the number of crossovers. If those things are more simple, is the interpretation at least better? That depends on the individual performer/performance.

But comparing choreography/presentation from 6.0 to current IJS seems like a futile exercise to me - they're two totally different systems, and the in-betweens (transitions and choreographic movements) of IJS are way more difficult and complicated than under 6.0.

In 6.0, skaters created special moments and magic through sheer force of personality/expression combined with beautiful music and simpler choreography. Simpler choreography doesn't equal better choreography. Though it might mean that the choreography is better executed, less rushed, with more attention paid to detail (like how flawless Michelle's hands are in Lyra Angelica - watching it at work without sound, I'm so impressed by the precise delicacy of her hands). And less choreography/transitions does mean more glide in the skating - more simple beauty, and yes, the perception of freedom. But look at the crossovers, the two-foot skating, the telegraphed jumps.

In IJS, there's way more going on. Tons of transitions, fewer crossovers, and in a well-choreographed program, those skating moments will be accompanied by upper body movements that go well with the music - i.e. effective choreography. But because there's so much going on, there's going to inevitably be less attention to details like how your hands look. And the skaters do looked more rushed - I get this impression from Evgenia and Hanyu a lot, but top skaters like them do have programs that, when skated well, go with the music well enough that the appearance of rushing is minimized. But geez, what they're doing is so much more physically demanding than what skaters were doing under 6.0. It really is.

"Well-balanced" presentation and choreography have nothing to do with tanos or backloading. (Though backloading may impact the balance of a program - who cares about it if the program is well done? God grant us all a backloaded program full of gorgeous edges and spirals and spread eagles and perfect, jump-free choreography in the first half that then turn into a frenzied jumpfest that goes with the music in the second half. That would be marvelous.)

 

[Perfume]

It was a good program but unlike many people I don't think it's iconic.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I always find these threads to be a bummer for both not recognizing how much more content programs today have and recognizing the efforts of skaters like Hanyu and many others who take choreography and musical interpretation seriously AND for people's need to talk about how less-than skaters in the 6.0 era are.

I do agree that there comes a point in point gathering where programs can be over-choreographed and at times transitions have no meaning or purpose with the music and choreography, but that existed before as well. There was just less of it back then, so it's not overchoreographed but that doesn't make some of the moves performed in yesteryear any less meaningless. Plus even under 6.0 there were throw-away elements that were clearly just done because they were prescribed. I think whatever system we have, the cream will rise to the top. I mean say what you will about Medvedeva's programs, but one cannot deny that she performs a character and tries to sustain it throughout (a small excited smile for landing her jumps can be excused I think since she is trying to skate a clean program and win titles).

 

[sarama]

I think that every discipline goes through different phases depending on the leading/defining skaters of a determinated "era". I don't think that the Mao/Yuna/Carolina era was that inferior to the Kwan era. Or look at the pairs: for a while most IJS programs seemed lifeless, but to me it was just because few pairs were able to bring magic in a highly demanding program (Shen/Zhao, Savchenko/Szolkowy), but now the entire field is blooming and I don't mean just technically. We might be seeing fewer clean programs, but I see a lot of creativity and effort in producing a high quality performance and not just a series of tricks

 

[Perfume]

Kwan had better programs than this one. Even if we use today's standard.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Lyra Angelica at 1998 Nationals was iconic, as much as you're trying to make it sound otherwise. You can prefer other programs of hers but that one was very special and unique. Has there EVER been a more delicate program in the history of modern competitive figure skating? I don't think so. It was literally like an angel on the ice. The attention paid to every body position, every arm position, every expression...it's glorious.

I always find these threads to be a bummer for both not recognizing how much more content programs today have and recognizing the efforts of skaters like Hanyu and many others who take choreography and musical interpretation seriously.

Skaters work hard and some people like Hanyu still take the artistry seriously, but there is large amount of ignorance about it these days. As much as he wants to be a brilliant artist, and has much talent as he has, a lot of the movement in his programs is still relatively nonsensical or less than transcendent in comparison to what is possible with ice skating. More content in programs is not necessarily a good thing. Choreography should be a complete idea and of course serve the music. Skaters these days often look spastic and uncomposed. They actually think that doing more movement inherently means better artistry and that is a problem.

It's incredibly difficult to do what Kwan did, to give a performance where every single moment of the performance needs to assert perfect posture, to look effortless, to showcase emotion, to make sure it looks good to the audience. Crossovers are not a bad thing (although of course a program needs to have more than just that). Crossovers feel good to do when you are skating. They are calming and form the basis of what skating provides, the surface of the ice allowing a human to move in a way that feels more they like they are flying.

 

[mrrice]

Kwan had better programs than this one. Even if we use today's standard.

I agree. I think her LP's from 2000, 2001 and 2003 all had better choreography and IMO, her performance of "Song Of The Black Swan" at Worlds in 2001 is the best blend of her technical and artistic qualities. I think she was the clear winner at Nationals that year and I did like Lyra quite a bit but, she definitely improved as she got older and I would place 4th in my order of Michelle's programs. I chose the top 3 because they included successful 3/3's.

1. Song Of The Black Swan (Worlds)

2. Salome (At Nationals)

3. Red Violin (Worlds)

4. Lyra Angelica

5. Concierto de Aranjuez