2018 Worlds Mens Short Program

[Danny T]

This year's worlds is NOT a joke.

Didn't say it was. The score was. Whoever wins is the rightful winner (tech call aside).

 

[charlotte14]

To be honest neither of their jumps are that great.

Yeap... Alien vs Predator. It's hard to compare. But I would pick Nathan over Vincent cause Nathan has better take-off.

 

[Nika09]

The one (if there's someone) who's designed competitive costumes for Nathan throughout the season should be punished.

 

[charlotte14]

The one (if there's someone) who's designed competitive costumes for Nathan throughout the season should be punished.

Vera Wang...:dance2:

 

[Mamamiia]

The one (if there's someone) who's designed competitive costumes for Nathan throughout the season should be punished.

I happen to love his costumes more than all their men skaters

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

If Shoma keeps his original LP layout he cam easily overtake Boyang with how generously he got scored in the SP.

 

[surimi]

The one (if there's someone) who's designed competitive costumes for Nathan throughout the season should be punished.

The newest SP creation looks like a gym clothes commercial, but I actually thought the original costume was very nice and cool for him.

Anyhow, is it just me, or have there been less splats and messings-up so far at this Worlds than the previous years? The overall level seems excellent, I enjoyed almost everyone including those who didn't make it to the free. Too bad I needed to stop watching after Kolyada's skate, I'd have loved to see the rest live but I'm grateful there are videos, unlike with the Olys. I'm most pleased with Kazuki's performance, and good to see Mikhail keeping the jump content in check. Finally they stopped pressuring him into the 4Lz, and it's bringing results. Vincent is going to be a real threat for gold next year, he just needs more time and expression to become as good as Nathan is now. Messing was stellar, I'm not a fan of his but I need to give him that; he was on fire. Surprisingly I enjoyed Nguyen's program as well, that's the first time I'm warming up to his skating. Had Fentz's music in my head all day yesterday, he's really good too when the jumps are behaving. As for my own personal favourite, I hope Keiji doesn't go down without a fight in the free. The frees are going to be exciting...

 

[surimi]

Now you are depressing me.

But I do feel for Boyang, he is a good egg, and he does look like he is putting effort. This and what he says about his mom does made me want to cry :sad4:

Huh? What did he say?

 

[charlotte14]

How does Kolyada have more PCS than Nathan?..

Because Kolyada has more 1 foot skating, better edge, better flow and speed.

 

[Jaana]

To me the performance of the evening was that of Bychenko!!! He enjoys the music so genuinely!!! And I love it, too! Remember it was played in a movie at wedding fest and it was so great to watch the dancing....

So glad that Donovan made the freeskate!

Oh, and our Virtanen skated the way I expected from him. The level of our male singles skating is sooo low.

I´m starting to be an Aliev fan, hopefully he does better in the freeskate and also Rizzo!!!

 

[Logirl]

The problem is whether Shoma can realistically skate that program with his foot injury. I actually hope he can. As for Shoma scoring I think Shoma has the best skating skills of this bunch. I just watched his short and the deep knee bend in stroking the ice is a thing of beauty for me. I enjoy just how he moves on the ice.

 

[crazydreamer]

Both Nathan and Vincent have an excellent shot at winning this. Great competition for the US so far. I wish Shomo were healthier. Also very pleased for Kolyada—he’s had a tough season but if he keeps it together he will medal and very possibly even win.

 

[dalenofff]

This men's event just shows what a great loss it is to have Patrick and Javi retire (and Yuzuru injured). Rather than the win in this WC is invalid, the scores the top men 'earned' here should be marked with an (*). Without the three above PCS became such a joke. If Patrick was there, I wouldn't think some judges are shameless enough to score Chen's SS in the 9s. I like Shoma, and I am rooting for him to pull through his injury (or better yet, rest!!) but compared with the Yuzuru's 48 PCS Chopin, Shoma's showing tonight shouldn't get anywhere near 46 PCS. Same with the other top men, except for maybe Boyang who have shown quite an improvement in his skating.

Asian have a proverb " the back wave force the forward wave out..." Patrick and Javi retired because they see that they can't compete technically anymore with the up and coming younger crew and still hope to medal (where Technical out weight PCS by quite a bit)... Javi did two flawless programs at the Olympic and only end up 3rd.... (Shoma had a flaw LP but with such high BV, he overcome Javi program..). It is the way that figure skating is going right now, shrug. I like the lean on the technical side because to me that put the athletes on the driving seat, you can't control judge PCS but you can control your own technical skills.. just my 2 cents... :think::scratch3:

 

[MaiKatze]

I think rather than to focus on the past, we should focus on the future. Of course, we'll miss the older generation, but I said it at the GPF. These guys who are competing here, will be the dominant skaters for the next 4 years in the men event. Better get used to them, instead of crying about who isn't here. (Or become one of these people who say they are done with FS, but always return)

My favourite is Shoma, and he probably won't medal. I will never say, 'Oh, yeah, so and so only won because Shoma wasn't 100% and Javier/Yuzuru weren't there' There are no *asteriks here.

 

[Tolstoj]

How does Kolyada have more PCS than Nathan?..

I know US media built this image of Nathan Chen being not just a great jumper but also very artistic but when you break down all his elements, it's not that true.

His components shouldn't be higher than Deniss Vasiljevs or Dmitri Aliev.

 

[cruzceleste]

Huh? What did he say?

According to reports he broke down after the results at the Olympcis, and the one thing he lament the most was the sacrifice his mom does for his skating, she quit her job and eats poorly (probably because not enough money) when she travels with him to his competitions...

(the context being that Chinese people do value eating well and that sacrifice was high from her). Maybe someone has more details

 

[Arriba627]

OK, then. I will not post any information from now on, at least, in the competition thread

Please, we need all the sane people we can get in the competition threads. Keep posting.

 

[Lester]

The one (if there's someone) who's designed competitive costumes for Nathan throughout the season should be punished.

I like the current SP costume. It somehow evokes the cover art of the album his SP song is from to me. In the geometry, not the colours.

 

[evangeline]

In general, a program is much harder to execute if you put quads in there (assuming you don't strip out all the choreo/transitions in between, which I don't think is an issue with Chen's).

Transitions: in/out of quads are harder compared to transitions in and out of triples. Of course, this is up for debate, because sometimes dumbing down to a triple allows a skater to add more transitions to up the quantity. Difficulty is open to interpretation too as some transitions are harder to execute, and some transitions are harder because of having to execute them prior to more difficult elements. There's some ambiguity there.

Skating skills (balance/precision of foot placement) is harder and you need stronger technique to execute quads versus triples. It's harder to exhibit balance/control/glide on more difficult choreography, it's harder to do on more difficult jumps.

Performance: quads are also more exciting to see than triples which benefits the Performance/projection aspect (an audience is more involved if you're attempting and executing riskier elements).

Choreography/Composition: a quad, being harder, provides a greater musical highlight compared to a triple, thus creating a more exciting/interesting mood. It is also much harder to execute the rest of a program's choreography well when you have greater difficulty of jumps as it tires you out more.

Interpretation: when a quad is landed on a musical highlight it is more impactful, which can lend itself to more impactful expression. A program is simply more impressive with difficult elements, and brings out the character more compared to a skater doing easy jumps that people have been doing for 20 years.

Of course, that's not to say that a program without quads can't get 10's (or close).... but that should be reserved only for skaters who still show excellent level of overall skating and strong programs - like Ge, Rippon or Brown, IMO.
.

This whole more/difficult quads = more PCS proposition you're trying to defend makes a bunch of assumptions that aren't always true. For example, I don't necessarily think a quad provides a greater musical highlight than a triple just by virtue of being harder. To borrow an example from pairs, S/M's huge +3 GOE throw 3F or T/M's gigantic +3 GOE throw 3Lo are MUCH more impressive musical highlights than D/R's throw 4S, which is relatively smaller, entered with less speed with a longer entrance, and landed with less flow than the throw triples of S/M or T/M.

And all your points only make sense if a program with quads is directly comparable to the exact same program with triples. But that usually doesn't happen in reality--in reality, a lot of skaters who do difficult quads take out choreography to incorporate long set-ups into quads that they don't need for triples, tighten up and don't really perform until all their quads are landed, etc. (which is totally understandable--quads are difficult!). For example, just compare Nathan Chen's programs from earlier this season at the US Int'l FS Classic to the program he's doing now at Worlds and at the Olympics, particularly the LP. Chen's programs--particularly the LP--looked amazing at the beginning of the season with a ton of detail in the choreography and he was performing the programs with great emotional depth and commitment while doing fewer, easier quads. By the time the Olympics rolled around, he took out a ton of choreographic detail particularly in his LP and mostly skated around setting up for his six quads and didn't really perform until all the jumps were over. Even if you ignore the fact that Chen watered down his choreography, it's a huge stretch to say that his program deserved higher PCS in IN, PE, etc. just by virtue of him having six quads. It's the same for Shoma Uno, who's doing more crossovers than ever to set up for all the quads in his programs this season.

That's why I'm OK with Kolyada receiving high PCS despite only doing 1-quad SP here. Without the 4Lz hanging over his head in the SP, he was visibly more relaxed and performed much better in between the jumps than he usually does.

 

[LucyH]

because kolyada has more 1 foot skating, better edge, better flow and speed.

here here