Canada might not compete at world figure skating championships — if they happen

[CaroLiza_fan]

this was discussed in the Canadian figure skating thread... perhaps it would be best to check there when discussing Skate Canada or Canadian skaters instead of opening new threads.... now the info is split into two threads... Can the moderators merge this thread to the main one?

To be fair, some people don't read the specific country threads. I know I don't. The Russian Ladies thread has scared me off them for life!

So, people like me wouldn't have heard about this development if it was only talked about in that thread.

I agree that the conversation should be consolodated into one thread. It is never good if the same conversation is happening in two different places. But, the difference is that I think the conversation should be consolodated into this dedicated thread, rather than into a more general thread.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[TontoK]

Exactly!! Either figure out a way for all to compete, or cancel it. The Olympics will have a HUGE Asterisk if all Feds are not included. Especially the Reigning Team Champions

I'm not entirely sure about this. While I certainly hope that the World Championships and the Olympic Games take place, and likewise hope that Canada participates in both, I'm not in favor of cancelling either just because they don't show.

More than anything, I'm not in favor of non-athletes on governing boards denying athletes the opportunity to prove themselves on the field of play. These skaters are young, in the prime of their lives, and perfectly capable of making reasonable personal health decisions on their own accord and complying with protective measures, quarantines, and such during the required travel and upon return.

Some seem to think these athletes are imbeciles, incapable of making their own decisions. They're not.

 

[mrrice]

I'm not entirely sure about this. While I certainly hope that the World Championships and the Olympic Games take place, and likewise hope that Canada participates in both, I'm not in favor of cancelling either just because they don't show.

More than anything, I'm not in favor of non-athletes on governing boards denying athletes the opportunity to prove themselves on the field of play. These skaters are young, in the prime of their lives, and perfectly capable of making reasonable personal health decisions on their own accord and complying with protective measures, quarantines, and such during the required travel and upon return.

Some seem to think these athletes are imbeciles, incapable of making their own decisions. They're not.

I agree. However, I am not in favor of holding ANY event where an entire Country would have to miss it for reasons beyond their control. The US has gone through quarantine's where we we're not allowed to even be in an Airport, much less get on a crowed plane. Call it an international event but, it won't be a true Worlds if one of the biggest Feds is not attending?

 

[Amei]

I agree. However, I am not in favor of holding ANY event where an entire Country would have to miss it for reasons beyond their control. The US has gone though quarantine's where we we're allowed to even be in an Airport, much less get on a crowed plane. Call it an international event but, it won't be a true Worlds if one of the biggest Feds is not attending?

What are we now saying is "beyond" the country's control? The article states lack of consistent training, everyone has had struggles and changes to their training and other countries have made it work. The complaint about quarantining upon return to Canada.... well after Worlds the season is over and skaters usually take a break.

 

[4everchan]

To be fair, some people don't read the specific country threads. I know I don't. The Russian Ladies thread has scared me off them for life!

So, people like me wouldn't have heard about this development if it was only talked about in that thread.

I agree that the conversation should be consolodated into one thread. It is never good if the same conversation is happening in two different places. But, the difference is that I think the conversation should be consolodated into this dedicated thread, rather than into a more general thread.

CaroLiza_fan

I see your point... however, the Canadian thread is NOT divided into disciplines, and is not focused on discussing Canadian skaters vs other Canadian skaters, which is why some of the National threads are scary in the end, I do not mind if this topic seems worthy enough to get its own thread, but then, it means that the moderators should definitely extract what we already had discussed in the Canadian thread. Otherwise, the information is diluted.

 

[el henry]

I do not believe the World Championships should be canceled if some athletes cannot attend. But given that some skaters may not attend due to circumstances beyond their control, a Worlds with partial attendance should not determine Oly spots or world rankings

In addition, I also do not believe that it shows fortitude, gumption, dedication or any other positive trait if an athlete attends or does not attend during a worldwide pandemic. All of these skaters in the conversation for Worlds have already displayed those traits.

I certainly wouldn't view disregard of one's own country's directives as some indication of personal dedication.

 

[TontoK]

What are we now saying is "beyond" the country's control? The article states lack of consistent training, everyone has had struggles and changes to their training and other countries have made it work. The complaint about quarantining upon return to Canada.... well after Worlds the season is over and skaters usually take a break.

Admittedly, I haven't read the article. Is it really making the case that there shouldn't be a World Championship (or that Canadians shouldn't attend) because they are undertrained?

If so, that's ridiculous.

 

[mrrice]

What are we now saying is "beyond" the country's control? The article states lack of consistent training, everyone has had struggles and changes to their training and other countries have made it work. The complaint about quarantining upon return to Canada.... well after Worlds the season is over and skaters usually take a break.

Amei.....I'm not sure where you're from but, here in California we had a recent spike and are back under Quarantine. Our local International Airport is closed and LAX and SFO are under restrictions. When people return to Ca. from another Country they are under a 10 day Quarantine. There is a serious health risk to the Athletes and they will be under a MANDATORY Quarantine after they return from ANY Country.

"All individuals living in the State of California are currently ordered to stay home or at their place of residence, except for permitted work, local shopping or other permitted errands, or as otherwise authorized (including in the Questions & Answers below)."

Unfortunately, all sports are considered Non-Essential and have been cancelled.

 

[TallyT]

These skaters are young, in the prime of their lives, and perfectly capable of making reasonable personal health decisions on their own accord and complying with protective measures, quarantines, and such during the required travel and upon return.

I can't quite see how that can be said by anyone who has watched any of the Russian shows this year.

But to be honest, there are a maximum of 4-5 singles skaters at the elite level who I would say actually even have the option of choosing what to do for themselves by themselves, and possibly less. The vast majority - even most of the top Russian girls - can't afford to drop out and risk funding, places, profile, standing, prize money.

Young people are reckless with their health, we know, but we need to be fair. In a short-career, expensive and risk-ridden sport when only a handful become stars and make decent money/history for all their work and pain, to set aside for their future... whether they want to or not, whether it's safe or not, most of them will say nothing and go. They have to.

 

[rollerblade]

Unfortunately, all sports are considered Non-Essential and have been cancelled.

I'll believe it when I see it. There are 3 NFL teams based in California, 2 in Los Angeles and 1 in San Fran (technically Santa Clara), their games are being played as scheduled.

The teams use charter flights... except for Patriots who has their own private jets.

 

[el henry]

Admittedly, I haven't read the article. Is it really making the case that there shouldn't be a World Championship (or that Canadians shouldn't attend) because they are undertrained?

If so, that's ridiculous.

It's not quite as ridiculous as all that, my friend. The Skate Canada official was saying, as I read it, that rinks were closed throughout Canada and that anyone training in Canada, no matter their dedication, hard work and devotion to the sport, simply had no access to ice. And that therefore the athletes were not on a level playing field if Worlds was held.

I don't remember if he was arguing that Worlds should not be held. As I said earlier, I don't think Worlds should be cancelled due to these issues. I also don't think it's truly "Worlds" , any more than the glorified Nats this year are true Grand Prix events.

Like the "winner" of the NFC East making the playoffs. If the Eagles are there, I'll take it, but I don't kid myself about what it is

 

[TontoK]

I can't quite see how that can be said by anyone who has watched any of the Russian shows this year.

But to be honest, there are a maximum of 4-5 singles skaters at the elite level who I would say actually even have the option of choosing what to do for themselves by themselves, and possibly less. The vast majority - even most of the top Russian girls - can't afford to drop out and risk funding, places, profile, standing, prize money.

Young people are reckless with their health, we know, but we need to be fair. In a short-career, expensive and risk-ridden sport when only a handful become stars and make decent money/history for all their work and pain, to set aside for their future... whether they want to or not, whether it's safe or not, most of them will say nothing and go. They have to.

To take honesty another step...

What is the risk of longlasting serious health consequences and/or death from COVID in world class athletes around age 20? I would be shocked if it's as bad as the risk skaters take driving to the rink every day. These young people are far more likely to die in a transportation accident getting to the WC than they are to die of infection.

I'm not minimizing this virus. It can be very serious for those of us in our senior years with co-morbidities, especially those with existing breathing or obesity-related disorders. I take these risks very seriously. I'm watching my diet strictly, and I take more exercise than I have in a decade. The steps I've taken for my own overall health during this pandemic are things I should have done long ago. I certainly feel better and stronger than I have in years. I have relatives in poor physical health who have been infected. I know it is tough, but they survived and credit the many treatment advances we've made this year. I hope that when I get it, as I assume I will eventually even though I am careful, that I will weather the storm as well as they did.

But it's not correct to transfer concerns of my own health to young men and women in peak physical condition. These skaters don't carry the same risks I do. It's unserious to treat them as though they do. It is not reckless for them to train and compete in controlled conditions.

 

[TontoK]

It's not quite as ridiculous as all that, my friend. The Skate Canada official was saying, as I read it, that rinks were closed throughout Canada and that anyone training in Canada, no matter their dedication, hard work and devotion to the sport, simply had no access to ice. And that therefore the athletes were not on a level playing field if Worlds was held.

Thank you for the clarification, dear friend.

Still... every complaint should come with a proposed remedy. If he didn't state it outright, I suspect he's inching towards one.

So, do you think it's World's shouldn't be held? Or that Canadians shoudn't attend because they're not ready? Or that Worlds shouldn't count for Olympic spots... and if not, then what measurement would he prefer?

Because this official's job is to advance the cause of Canadian skating, and I'd bet he has a remedy in mind.

 

[TallyT]

To take honesty another step...

What is the risk of longlasting serious health consequences and/or death from COVID in world class athletes around age 20? I would be shocked if it's as bad as the risk skaters take driving to the rink every day. These young people are far more likely to die in a transportation accident getting to the WC than they are to die of infection.

I'm not minimizing this virus. It can be very serious for those of us in our senior years with co-morbidities, especially those with existing breathing or obesity-related disorders. I take these risks very seriously. I'm watching my diet strictly, and I take more exercise than I have in a decade. The steps I've taken for my own overall health during this pandemic are things I should have done long ago. I certainly feel better and stronger than I have in years. I have relatives in poor physical health who have been infected. I know it is tough, but they survived and credit the many treatment advances we've made this year. I hope that when I get it, as I assume I will eventually even though I am careful, that I will weather the storm as well as they did.

But it's not correct to transfer concerns of my own health to young men and women in peak physical condition. These skaters don't carry the same risks I do. It's unserious to treat them as though they do. It is not reckless for them to train and compete in controlled conditions.

We don't know. That's the simple fact so many people are steering away from because the most frightening thing of all is always, always what we don't know.

There have been reports that covid causes long-term heart and lung damage, even in people who had it mildly. There are reports that athletes are more at risk of this than the average person. There are reports that none of this is true. There are reports that antibodies after illness only works for a tiny period of time, and therefore it - and possibly vaccines - will be of limited use. There are reports that in fact antibodies last longer. There are reports that asthma and other lung/breathing problems make people more vulnerable. There are reports this may not be so.

I'm not actually saying that the athletes and everyone else involved are or are not at risk, partly because I'm too skeptical to think that anything short of hard, too-late-to-do-anything proof in 5-10 years will convince anyone either way (look at all the arguments about health risks of quads etc) and partly because it's not even vaguely my call. I'm living in one of the safest areas of one of the safest countries in the world at the minute, it would be sheer presumption to do so.

That's not what my post was about. What I was saying is simply that we shouldn't assume the skaters are doing what they really believe is best for them; only a few really have that luxury.

 

[el henry]

Thank you for the clarification, dear friend.

Still... every complaint should come with a proposed remedy. If he didn't state it outright, I suspect he's inching towards one.

So, do you think it's World's shouldn't be held? Or that Canadians shoudn't attend because they're not ready? Or that Worlds shouldn't count for Olympic spots... and if not, then what measurement would he prefer?

Because this official's job is to advance the cause of Canadian skating, and I'd bet he has a remedy in mind.

Although of course if it is this official's job to look out for Canadian athletes, he can argue what he wants, I do agree that it seems odd to argue that Worlds should not be held at all.

If the powers that be feel they can hold Worlds safely, and their government allows them to proceed, Worlds should proceed. I think skaters will want to go if they are allowed to leave their country, even if they have not had as much ice time, because they are competitive and dedicated and maybe even fell pressure.

I think it will be "Worlds" with an asterisk, because I think some skaters won't be there due to their country's restrictions, and that is completely beyond their control, whether or not we think it should be.

Therefore, I wouldn't use Worlds without full participation for items like Olympic spots, which are country based. I would use for PBs if they could an international judging panel. I can't make up my mind about world standings.

And I hope hope hope that everyone is safe. The skaters may be young. Their coaches are not.

 

[4everchan]

To take honesty another step...

What is the risk of longlasting serious health consequences and/or death from COVID in world class athletes around age 20? I would be shocked if it's as bad as the risk skaters take driving to the rink every day. These young people are far more likely to die in a transportation accident getting to the WC than they are to die of infection.

I'm not minimizing this virus. It can be very serious for those of us in our senior years with co-morbidities, especially those with existing breathing or obesity-related disorders. I take these risks very seriously. I'm watching my diet strictly, and I take more exercise than I have in a decade. The steps I've taken for my own overall health during this pandemic are things I should have done long ago. I certainly feel better and stronger than I have in years. I have relatives in poor physical health who have been infected. I know it is tough, but they survived and credit the many treatment advances we've made this year. I hope that when I get it, as I assume I will eventually even though I am careful, that I will weather the storm as well as they did.

But it's not correct to transfer concerns of my own health to young men and women in peak physical condition. These skaters don't carry the same risks I do. It's unserious to treat them as though they do. It is not reckless for them to train and compete in controlled conditions.

just look it up and you will get answers to your questions : some NCAA athletes have been diagnosed with a condition called myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart due to complications of COVID19... some had very weak symptoms of the disease, no co-mobirdities, perfectly healthy young elite athletes, but it has been shown that the virus isn't simply a respiratory illness but attacks the cardiovascular system in some cases, causing long term damage. I do not need to explain to you the repercussions of such a condition on a figure skater flying on the ice for 2--4 minutes executing spins, jumps and steps, throws and lifts... CAREER ENDING condition

I am nice... here is a link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid19-coronavirus-heart-injury-college-athletes-sports

 

[Ladskater]

Unfortunately Canada is not first in line for the COVID vaccine because we don't have the capacity to produce it here. Europe and the US and Britain will be well ahead of Canada, so our country will have to wait and keep doing what we are doing to stay safe until we get the vaccine. I'm sure the Team Canada skaters understand this.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Unfortunately Canada is not first in line for the COVID vaccine because we don't have the capacity to produce it here. Europe and the US and Britain will be well ahead of Canada, so our country will have to wait and keep doing what we are doing to stay safe until we get the vaccine. I'm sure the Team Canada skaters understand this.

You want to try that again? https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...christmas-chief-health-adviser-says-1.5205986

 

[kwalker]

You want to try that again? https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...christmas-chief-health-adviser-says-1.5205986

I'm not really sure if you read this article in it's entirety. The article clearly states that Canada will have to have the doses shipped to them, meaning they aren't manufacturing it themselves, which is precisely what Ladskater said. Additionally because they will not be manufacturing the vaccine themselves, it is likely that doses will be rationed at the beginning and given to the highest-risk populations, such as seniors as well as health-care and essential workers. The logistics of shipment and storage are still in the works.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It would be unfair to have everyone compete for spots this season, just IMO.
Each country was affected differently by COVID, so were athletes as a result.

So what? Use last season's rankings and ignore those who worked so hard to improve and qualify for this season?