Adult LTS - Time for new boots?

[Naurh]

Hi everyone,

I started LTS a year ago (got about 100 hours of skating in so far) as a 31 year old guy having never been on skates of any kind before. After my first session, I knew it was something I loved and invested in a pair of Jackson Mystique skates. Since January I've been skating 5-6 hours a week and while I'm still progressing, I feel like my boots may be holding me back. I've been stuck around the Basic 4 level for awhile now. My one-foot glides, balance, backwards skating, and crossover progressions have been getting better, but I spend a lot of time fighting my boots. When I lace them up, I have to lace them super tight (so much so that the laces tear into my pinky finger when I'm tightening them) to prevent my ankle from wobbling, but then I have a horrible time bending my knees, which forces me to compensate by leaning forward when stroking, pumping, etc. If I loosen them a bit, I can flex my knees forward enough to do better pumps, crossovers, etc, but I loose support in my ankles from the boots, which makes stroking and gliding well really tough. The problem is especially problematic with my left skate, which is my dominate foot. I noticed that both boots have had a pretty decent crease in them for awhile now. I am thinking about taking them in to the skate shop I bought them from and getting an opinion from them, however I know there's a possibility that they'll just tell me I need new boots, regardless of whether I actually do or not. I'm totally fine investing in a more supportive boot and I know it won't be cheap, but I want to be sure that I'm not upgrading too soon. For reference (because I'm sure it plays into how fast my boots break down) I'm 6' and 220lbs with size 12W feet. If I do upgrade, I think I'd prefer leather over synthetic. Appreciate any advice you may have. Thanks!

 

[sandraskates]

Welcome!
A crease in your boots + all the other challenges you mentioned does sound like it's time for new boots.
Sometimes a shoe repair shop can add reinforcing stitching from the ankle to top of the boots but I don't think this is a good idea for you.

There are many leather boot choices: Jackson, Reidell, Harlick and SP-Teri if you want customs (probably not yet), and Risport (if they are offered in your area). What you chose also depends on your foot shape so talk to your skate shop. You may want to stick with Jackson if they fit your foot well. Upgrade your blades too.

 

[gliese]

If I do upgrade, I think I'd prefer leather over synthetic.

Do you have a reason for this? There's a lot of misconceptions around leather vs. synthetic boots so I just want to make sure that one of those isn't the reason you are making this decision.

 

[MCsAngel2]

You very very much need new boots. Mystique is a recreational level boot that's not really designed for adults to learn skills in. Heavier adults (like myself) also usually need to go up a level for the recommended boot for the skill level, since the recommendations are based on an averaged size teen skater. In Jackson, you shouldn't be in anything less than a Debut, *possibly* a Premiere.

Jackson Fit Guide

Jackson Ultima Fit Guide

jacksonultima.com

Boots Products

Jackson Ultima Skates

jacksonultima.com

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You definitely need stiffer boots. It's time for you to have an appointment with a professional figure skating tech/fitter. Have them properly fit you and tell you what brand and boot model is best for you.

Good luck!

 

[Naurh]

Do you have a reason for this? There's a lot of misconceptions around leather vs. synthetic boots so I just want to make sure that one of those isn't the reason you are making this decision.

Anecdotally I've heard that leather conforms to your feet better than synthetic materials and holds up better over time. I'm sure that depends on what kind of synthetic material you're comparing it against though. I also just don't much care for the material my Jackson Mystiques are made of (e.g. especially if I compare them to my fiancée's SP-Teris), but obviously that's more to do with aesthetics than performance. I've only had this pair of skates, so obviously I've only got one data point to go off of.

You very very much need new boots. Mystique is a recreational level boot that's not really designed for adults to learn skills in. Heavier adults (like myself) also usually need to go up a level for the recommended boot for the skill level, since the recommendations are based on an averaged size teen skater. In Jackson, you shouldn't be in anything less than a Debut, *possibly* a Premiere.

Jackson Fit Guide

Jackson Ultima Fit Guide

jacksonultima.com

Boots Products

Jackson Ultima Skates

jacksonultima.com

Hmm, that's good to know. When I was originally fitted, the lady at the skate shop as well as my fiancée seemed to think that I should be able to progress all the way through Basic 1-6 before needing sturdier boots, but I'm sure her experience has been mostly with younger, lighter skaters and my fiancée started skating at 7, so obviously things are different as an adult skater.

I'm curious if you know anything about the fit of Riedell vs Jackson? I've been trying to do some research on boots before I go in and the 255 Motion caught my eye as a possibility, as it's offered in a 12W. It's rated at 70 though, so I don't know if that would be overbooting myself. Ideally I'd like to find something that will carry me through singles. I don't know if I'll ever get an Axel or doubles, but getting some singles like a Salchow or a Lutz in the next few years would be amazing. My ultimate goal is to get in to partner ice dance.

 

[gliese]

Anecdotally I've heard that leather conforms to your feet better than synthetic materials and holds up better over time.

It's true that it does that on it's own, however there are some synthetic boots that can be heat molded and the rest can be shaped by your fitter to remove any points of pressure, so keep that in mind. The ones that are shaped by your tech actually tend to not lose their shape as much as leather boots. I can't speak for how long they last as I've never worn a well fitted leather boot, but I find skaters that wear leather and skaters that wear synthetic both on average replace yearly at the advanced and elite levels.

As for aesthetics, that's obviously dependent on the brand and personal taste.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Until fairly recently, I'd only ever worn leather boots since I started skating in the 1980s. Then, last summer, whilst was struggling with arthritis, oedema and some achilles problems, I switched to Risport Royal Pros. I've believed as gospel since 1980 that boots made from leather were far superior to those of synthetic material but I have to say that I really, really like the my Risports and they are definitely synthetic. Very light, very comfortable and very stiff. They are also a little lower all round than the other Risports, although not specifically low cut at the back like a dance boot. For me, they're a perfect compromise between the dance boots that I love for pattern dances and the freestyle boots I prefer for Field Moves and spins. YMMV.

 

[Sibelius]

Anecdotally I've heard that leather conforms to your feet better than synthetic materials ...

Our fitter (who likely built your fiancee's boots) told us the same thing on our last visit. He said that the synthetics don't mold around the foot nearly as well as leather. He said the synthetic uppers pinch in a vice like fashion rather than conform to the foot shape. While she's done well in the Jackson synthetics, my skater will be moving to a leather boot next. Ghastly more expensive, but that's his recommendation for a better fit.

 

[Naurh]

Sadly my skate shop is closed all this week for a staff retreat, so I suspect it's going to be some time next week that I'll be able to make an appointment to get fitted, and several more weeks beyond that before I've got a new pair of boots. There's another skate that's a similar distance away that my club partners with that I might try this weekend. I'm anxious to see what the effect will be of a higher level boot. I feel like I'm just within reach of getting crossovers, one-foot outside-edge glides, and 3-turns, but my boots aren't giving me the stability I need to really nail those down.

 

[Naurh]

Figured I'd share an update. I went to two skate shops for fittings. The first one I hadn't been to before, and is primarily a hockey shop. They sell Riedells and Edeas. I tried on a pair of Riedells but the toe box felt squished. Also just got the impression that they didn't care much about figure skaters. Went to the shop I usually go to (they have a lot of stock and are run by figure skaters) and after talking to two fitters for an hour, they basically said I should go with Auras. They said I could try Jackson Elites, but based on my foot, height, and weight, the fit would probably be crap and I'd have to wait 3 weeks to get them in the store. They said I'd break down a Riedell pretty quick because the ankle height is not that high. I asked about Risport and they said my foot is just a tad too wide for their C-width stock boots. I could order custom Harlicks, but they'd take 8+ months right now, which just isn't a reasonable option. I was kind of bummed at how limited the options are. I expected to drop $600 to $800, but it looks like I'll be out closer to $1,500 when all is said and done.

I was definitely sold on the Auras. My only hesitation is the price, and frankly, they're not the most aesthetically pleasing boots. I would've preferred a classic leather look, but at the end of the day, fit/function is far more important. I scheduled a subsequent fitting for Auras for this weekend.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Figured I'd share an update. I went to two skate shops for fittings. The first one I hadn't been to before, and is primarily a hockey shop. They sell Riedells and Edeas. I tried on a pair of Riedells but the toe box felt squished. Also just got the impression that they didn't care much about figure skaters. Went to the shop I usually go to (they have a lot of stock and are run by figure skaters) and after talking to two fitters for an hour, they basically said I should go with Auras. They said I could try Jackson Elites, but based on my foot, height, and weight, the fit would probably be crap and I'd have to wait 3 weeks to get them in the store. They said I'd break down a Riedell pretty quick because the ankle height is not that high. I asked about Risport and they said my foot is just a tad too wide for their C-width stock boots. I could order custom Harlicks, but they'd take 8+ months right now, which just isn't a reasonable option. I was kind of bummed at how limited the options are. I expected to drop $600 to $800, but it looks like I'll be out closer to $1,500 when all is said and done.

I was definitely sold on the Auras. My only hesitation is the price, and frankly, they're not the most aesthetically pleasing boots. I would've preferred a classic leather look, but at the end of the day, fit/function is far more important. I scheduled a subsequent fitting for Auras for this weekend.

Find a new shop NOW. They are trying to upsell you bigtime and you don't need a boot like that especially for your skill level. They want to sell you a boot that is more than I get: My one pair of customs and P99s as a pro doing triple triples. Run don't walk away from that shop.

 

[shumaislife]

I scheduled a subsequent fitting for Auras for this weekend.

Umm 1000% what Ic3Rabbit said. This shop doesn't seem to be remotely considering your needs. Doesn't sound like they have integrity. And Jackson does full customs too for ~$980 if your foot is truly incredibly hard to fit. Chances are you DON'T need customs, as you are still a beginner.

I'm skating in stock 7w Jackson Freestyles (couldn't afford the Debuts right now) doing the same skills you're working on. My fitter tried to upsell me on Edea Ice Flies, but I went into the store educated on my needs. Stick to your original budget.

 

[Sibelius]

I didn't want to be the first to say it, but I'm sure glad there are others who were thinking it. I'd at least get another opinion for that kind of money. And, yeah I'm getting mine a custom boot and a GS blade for that much.

I remember someone posting about them here a bit ago, they seem to have disappeared. Reeked of shill as I recall.

I am not denigrating the boots. I sure think some technological advancement would be great (more along the lines of 3D fitting analysis). I have seen them in our rink's "pro shop", aside from being very light they were a bit too quirky. I was under the impression they were cutting edge for advanced skaters looking for that last bit of competitive advantage.

I was about to say that I haven't seen one skater in them, but then remembered I haven't seen one skater on the ice in over a year, including my own!

Good luck to you.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I didn't want to be the first to say it, but I'm sure glad there are others who were thinking it. I'd at least get another opinion for that kind of money. And, yeah I'm getting mine a custom boot and a GS blade for that much.

I remember someone posting about them here a bit ago, they seem to have disappeared. Reeked of shill as I recall.

I am not denigrating the boots. I sure think some technological advancement would be great (more along the lines of 3D fitting analysis). I have seen them in our rink's "pro shop", aside from being very light they were a bit too quirky. I was under the impression they were cutting edge for advanced skaters looking for that last bit of competitive advantage.

I was about to say that I haven't seen one skater in them, but then remembered I haven't seen one skater on the ice in over a year, including my own!

Good luck to you.

There are a few elite that wear them, Nam Nguyen being one.

 

[Sibelius]

There are a few elite that wear them, Nam Nguyen being one.

Curious, at that level are boots/blades comped by the mfg? I'm pretty sure Edea does that for the elite skaters in their boots, or at least was told that awhile ago.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Figured I'd share an update. I went to two skate shops for fittings. The first one I hadn't been to before, and is primarily a hockey shop. They sell Riedells and Edeas. I tried on a pair of Riedells but the toe box felt squished. Also just got the impression that they didn't care much about figure skaters. Went to the shop I usually go to (they have a lot of stock and are run by figure skaters) and after talking to two fitters for an hour, they basically said I should go with Auras. They said I could try Jackson Elites, but based on my foot, height, and weight, the fit would probably be crap and I'd have to wait 3 weeks to get them in the store. They said I'd break down a Riedell pretty quick because the ankle height is not that high. I asked about Risport and they said my foot is just a tad too wide for their C-width stock boots. I could order custom Harlicks, but they'd take 8+ months right now, which just isn't a reasonable option. I was kind of bummed at how limited the options are. I expected to drop $600 to $800, but it looks like I'll be out closer to $1,500 when all is said and done.

I was definitely sold on the Auras. My only hesitation is the price, and frankly, they're not the most aesthetically pleasing boots. I would've preferred a classic leather look, but at the end of the day, fit/function is far more important. I scheduled a subsequent fitting for Auras for this weekend.

They what now?????

Oh my. You are being so oversold. I am actually appalled and almost speechless at this. Please go to another fitter. There is no way on this earth that somebody of your standard should be being pushed towards this kind of expense and these models of boot. Fastest way to shell out a lot of money and be so unhappy that you give up.

You need to find another fitter where you can try Jacksons and Risport at the very least. I need a fairly wide fitting and Risport C fitting is fine. There are so many options out there to fit you that there's honestly no way you should need to resort to custom Harlick or Auras. Basically I suspect that shop is reluctant to order anything in specially so is trying to push you for something you'll be stuck with, regardless. Not cool or the least bit professional.

You'd be better off ordering something online that you can send back and trying it on with your coach to help rather than using this shop and it's not often I'd recommend that!

Holy cow. I am truly appalled. Really.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Curious, at that level are boots/blades comped by the mfg? I'm pretty sure Edea does that for the elite skaters in their boots, or at least was told that awhile ago.

Sometimes, not always.

 

[Naurh]

I'm definitely second guessing things now based on the feedback from you guys. The problem is that there simply are no other shops within a day's driving distance of where I live (middle of hockey country) that have anything I could even try on. I'd likely need to fly somewhere, at which point I'd probably be spending as much money or more (because I'd have to make the trip at least 2-3 times). I've tried calling a few other fitters that are much further away but still within a day's drive, but none of them have anything in stock.

I hadn't considered the possibility of ordering a boot directly online and going that route... I tried measuring my feet after reading up on how to do it and here's what I've got:

• Left: 29.5cm length, 26.5cm width (circumference)
• Right: 29cm length, 26cm width (circumference)
• Also relevant, I'm 6'1" and 225lbs.

Based on this chart, I think Risport might work but I'm not sure? The fitter I went to said I was a bit too wide for Risport. This Riedell chart suggests I'm a size 12 but doesn't say anything about the width as far as circumference, so I'm not sure... I also checked out this SP-Teri size chart and it seems like an 11.5 D width could work based on my measurements. Any advice on which boots to look at? Or other brands?

Obviously I don't want to spend $1,500 on boots/blades if it can be avoided, but my bigger concern is not wanting to waste months fiddling with different options on my own trying to find something that works because then I'm wasting time and money not progressing like I could be. If I could be guaranteed to get a boot that fits and functions perfectly tomorrow, I would hardly hesitate at the price. I really should've started this process in January or February, but I didn't realize I needed a new boot at that point already.

 

[Tavi...]

So, I’m not sure where hockey country is, but if you mean the Midwest or the Northeast, I know there are good fitters in the Chicago area and in Colorado, and I would guess there’d be a good one in Boston.