Improving air axis and landing position

[Surge_et_age]

Hello,
I am working on my doubles and trying first to improve the technique in singles to get more air.
My problem is the “leaning forward” - I start and finish with a little inclination forward with my body/back. I think it is something coming from my tennis background where we are always leaning forward preparing for a ball.
But it gives me pain (both literary and metaforicaly) .. it throws me off axis in the air and gives quite a painful on the lower back landing.

what I do is fight is so far:
- spinner backspin and pushing my bottom “in”
- jumping rope doing doubles
- training my lower back to “hold” my body straighter in the air

my coach also said to do some basic ballet exercises for a better posture

Anybody had same problems? Do you do something different?
And how to fight this intention to land leaning forward?

thank you so much

 

[marcopolobear]

Hello,
I am working on my doubles and trying first to improve the technique in singles to get more air.
My problem is the “leaning forward” - I start and finish with a little inclination forward with my body/back. I think it is something coming from my tennis background where we are always leaning forward preparing for a ball.
But it gives me pain (both literary and metaforicaly) .. it throws me off axis in the air and gives quite a painful on the lower back landing.

what I do is fight is so far:
- spinner backspin and pushing my bottom “in”
- jumping rope doing doubles
- training my lower back to “hold” my body straighter in the air

my coach also said to do some basic ballet exercises for a better posture

Anybody had same problems? Do you do something different?
And how to fight this intention to land leaning forward?

thank you so much

Hi,

Are you doing this in all your jumps, or just certain ones? Is the forward inclination just your upper body (i.e. you are bending forward at the waist)? Are you getting straight in the air at all?

Since you are talking about preparation for doubles, where are you putting your free leg during the jump? Most often for this type of practice you would hold it in the "h" position throughout the jump.


M.

 

[gliese]

Making sure you're jumping outside of the circle and as high as you can helps with air axis a bit. It's pretty much impossible to jump as high as you can on the wrong axis.

 

[Surge_et_age]

Hi,

Are you doing this in all your jumps, or just certain ones? Is the forward inclination just your upper body (i.e. you are bending forward at the waist)? Are you getting straight in the air at all?

Since you are talking about preparation for doubles, where are you putting your free leg during the jump? Most often for this type of practice you would hold it in the "h" position throughout the jump.


M.

Hello M,
Currently I am doing “taps” with my legs (bringing them together in the air) and trying to land as much fully rotated as I can but mostly i am getting 1,5 rotation and landing forward. I am working on 2x toe loop and salchow - I tried also flip when I was getting it right but now I got back the problem that I fly out with my bottom out and with a body slightly forward. I don’t know in general why I get this problem - I don’t feel it myself but my coach tells me.
he said it is because I do the push (preparation already inclained) my body to much forward…
And yes it is just forward body - like my torso (breast, shoulders) but not much, like 10-15 degrees from vertical if that makes sense…

 

[gliese]

Can't believe I didn't mention hold before. Hold your glutes and core.

Are you coming out of the jump early?

 

[Surge_et_age]

Can't believe I didn't mention hold before. Hold your glutes and core.

Are you coming out of the jump early?

Yes! That’s what my coach tells me to do but it’s hard to my head to give this kind of command to the body it seems like I slowly start getting it but being concentrated on arms and legs and shoulders - I sometimes forget it you know… but yes thanks for this.
And the coming out early - I had that idea recently - on the other shred somebody shared an axel video with a bending front on the landing - that is 1 to 1 my problem! And there was also a comment of “comming out early” - I have never though about it but I think it might be “the” reason !!!
how do I come out “later”? You got any tips?
Thanks so much!

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Yes! That’s what my coach tells me to do but it’s hard to my head to give this kind of command to the body it seems like I slowly start getting it but being concentrated on arms and legs and shoulders - I sometimes forget it you know… but yes thanks for this.
And the coming out early - I had that idea recently - on the other shred somebody shared an axel video with a bending front on the landing - that is 1 to 1 my problem! And there was also a comment of “comming out early” - I have never though about it but I think it might be “the” reason !!!
how do I come out “later”? You got any tips?
Thanks so much!

Try landing in backwards pirouette (generic, can be a backspin or a twizzle or any type of turning movement in rotation position). Train a fast landing with reflexes, and then make sure you don't focus on landing. It will happen automatically.

 

[gliese]

Yes! That’s what my coach tells me to do but it’s hard to my head to give this kind of command to the body it seems like I slowly start getting it but being concentrated on arms and legs and shoulders - I sometimes forget it you know… but yes thanks for this.
And the coming out early - I had that idea recently - on the other shred somebody shared an axel video with a bending front on the landing - that is 1 to 1 my problem! And there was also a comment of “comming out early” - I have never though about it but I think it might be “the” reason !!!
how do I come out “later”? You got any tips?
Thanks so much!

The cause of bending forward on a landing could ALSO be coming out too late, so I'd ask your coach.

Weird way to fix coming out early but it works for me. If you're prone to bad air position (in your legs) don't do this. I'll cross my leg so that my lower calf of my left leg is touching the mid shin of my right so that it's harder to put it down. Might work might not. And it won't work on jumps that require a super tight air position to rotate properly (triples) but I find I don't come out of those early because coming out of those early is scary to me. Once I figure out the timing, I go right back to the proper air position.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

The cause of bending forward on a landing could ALSO be coming out too late, so I'd ask your coach.

Weird way to fix coming out early but it works for me. If you're prone to bad air position (in your legs) don't do this. I'll cross my leg so that my lower calf of my left leg is touching the mid shin of my right so that it's harder to put it down. Might work might not. And it won't work on jumps that require a super tight air position to rotate properly (triples) but I find I don't come out of those early because coming out of those early is scary to me. Once I figure out the timing, I go right back to the proper air position.

I'd not recommend the jump rotation with a wrapped position as can be difficult to correct if becomes muscle memory. Can also offset hips so can cause hip breakage with jumps with more rotation (as it needs to to balance the wrap and stay straight).

I'm glad you can do it and come back to proper air position, but I wouldn't recommend it in case you learn a mistake. Can really hold back later especially if becomes comfortable for a skater.

 

[gliese]

I'd not recommend the jump rotation with a wrapped position as can be difficult to correct if becomes muscle memory. Can also offset hips so can cause hip breakage with jumps with more rotation (as it needs to to balance the wrap and stay straight).

Not wrapped. Perhaps I described that wrong. Just slightly higher than usual.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Not wrapped. Perhaps I described that wrong. Just slightly higher than usual.

Mid-shin is usually a wrap as far as ai understand it.
There are different levels of wrap as well so terminology can be different.
Here is an example of a wrap from a random Google image I found:

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/eYvmpnpscCbE

Compared to correct position with hips tucked under and two straight legs:

Google-Ergebnis für https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/nathan-chen-quad-jumps-long-program-winter-olympics.jpg

I'd never recommend straying from correct rotation position as it can reat alter technique in future, and make it harder to get triples (or even clean doubles).

 

[gliese]

Mid-shin is usually a wrap as far as ai understand it.
There are different levels of wrap as well so terminology can be different.
Here is an example of a wrap from a random Google image I found:

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/eYvmpnpscCbE

Compared to correct position with hips tucked under and two straight legs:

Google-Ergebnis für https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/nathan-chen-quad-jumps-long-program-winter-olympics.jpg

I'd never recommend straying from correct rotation position as it can reat alter technique in future, and make it harder to get triples (or even clean doubles).

I think we have very different definitions of mid shin (he's closer to the knee than just mid shin).

That persons position looks like he's about to land, therefore already checking out of his air position hence his leg being very turned out. He is saving himself from over rotation. That is likely not his actual air position, therefore he likely is not wrapping.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I think we have very different definitions of mid shin (he's closer to the knee than just mid shin).

That persons position looks like he's about to land, therefore already checking out of his air position hence his leg being very turned out. He is saving himself from over rotation. That is likely not his actual air position, therefore he likely is not wrapping.

Yeah I just couldn't find a picture of a wrap quickly so used that one (which incidentally came on Google search because it was in a tweet that said "and its a wrap... (on some competition)".
But if air position like that, then that's about mid-shin from the contact between the landing leg and the tight leg.