2022 US Nationals: Women - Thoughts?

[Bentley]

Bell is overscored. 140 for no triple triple and two messed up jumps and bad landings.

Karen is ALWAYS so clearly better than Mariah. That's what is so maddening. She just never learned to rotate her triples. She has EVERYTHING else in spades, but if she doesn't get credit for her jumps, she's toast in this sport. And she never had to work on it, because USFS was always willing to give her the BOTD and push her over other skaters. I wonder if USFS thinks all that support for Karen has panned out. Sure, she's now a two-time Olympian, but, well.... so what? She's not competitive for a medal or the final group (last year was an anomaly, let's be honest). Let's hope USFS decides to throw support behind the younger skaters in the next quad who attempt world class competitive content and not just hold up the Old Guard who won't do anything internationally.

 

[Bentley]

Um, less you forget, Karen is the reason why we have 3 spots at Worlds this year. And you can thank Alyssa and Karen for the 3 spots in the Olympics. Last year Mariah did not even medal at Nationals and she is not great in International competition. I consider her an inconsistent skater.

 

[lesnar001]

I haven't forgotten. Karen came through big time at Worlds - she's done this twice now in fact. But she as well as Mariah can be an inconsistent skater. Alysa has been the most consistent, even though this year has probably not gone as smoothly for her as she would have hoped.

I do recall Mariah Bell doing well in the Grand Prix during 2019-20, so she has had some international success for sure. Obviously not on the same level as Karen Chen, but definitely success. And Alysa also had a rough time at last year's nationals, so if you count that against Mariah, I think it should count for her too. But that's all in the past now anyway.

 

[Amei]

Um, less you forget, Karen is the reason why we have 3 spots at Worlds this year. And you can thank Alyssa and Karen for the 3 spots in the Olympics. Last year Mariah did not even medal at Nationals and she is not great in International competition. I consider her an inconsistent skater.

Karen and Mariah have both been inconsistent internationally throughout their careers - yes Karen has the 4th place finish at Worlds last year. If you are trying to discredit Mariah for a bad FS last year, Karen had a bad FS this year at Skate Canada. And Karen has an under-rotation problem for a decent number of her jumps, Mariah doesn't really have a big UR problem; Karen it's a roll of the dice of how strict is the tech caller going to be, last night her URs cost her the National title.

 

[chuckm]

Isabeau is eligible for Jr Worlds.

When Alysa won her first Nationals, she was only 12 so she couldn't even go to JW. Her season was over.

Oh they totally did a dirty on the fabulous Sofias. I think it was waaaay more shady than Isabeau not winning here. But it's Olympic year so they will do what they will do.

That was because the fabulous Sofias are not Eteri girls. Eteri wanted all of the women's Olympic spots, and what Eteri wants takes precedence over everything else.

 

[Bonnie F]

I was in the arena and thought the placements were fair. I was really impressed with Isabeau and hope she continues to develop her technical and artistic content to compete internally in the years to come. I thought Mariah performed better than Karen given Karen's URs which were noticeable even to my novice judging eye. I do love that Karen always shows up for the big moments though. I watched her in Greensboro in 2015 and it's been a great to see the arc of her career. I'm happy she's going back to the Olympics.
On a different note, I last saw Alyssa live two years ago, and I honestly did not recognize her at all here. Her growth spurt is so much more dramatic in person. Props to her for continuing to skate as well as she has given the changes in her body and training bases over the last year but I am really worried about her future. I so hope she can regain her spark because she has such a special quality when she's on but I worry that she will not be able to consistently perform the technical content she demonstrated a few years ago.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I was also hoping that Karen would get a shot at the team event, given that she was pivotal in helping the US secure three Olympic spots not once but TWICE (yes, I know she gets lots of unders, but the international judges seem to like her for PCs), but it seems more likely that the team event will now be Alysa and Mariah OR Alysa doing both if they are not given a choice.

There's no reason for Alysa to be in the team event right now. She underrotates her jumps, has worse skating, and doesn't appear able to land the 3Axel< reliably anymore. She seems to have lost some confidence and now she's off the ice because of covid too. Without a landed 3Axel<, her PCS will definitely drop internationally. That element was increasing her clout with the judges.

Karen actually has the higher average SP score over Mariah. So it would make sense to have her there, and Mariah in the LP.

 

[moonvine]

I was in the arena and thought the placements were fair. I was really impressed with Isabeau and hope she continues to develop her technical and artistic content to compete internally in the years to come. I thought Mariah performed better than Karen given Karen's URs which were noticeable even to my novice judging eye. I do love that Karen always shows up for the big moments though. I watched her in Greensboro in 2015 and it's been a great to see the arc of her career. I'm happy she's going back to the Olympics.
On a different note, I last saw Alyssa live two years ago, and I honestly did not recognize her at all here. Her growth spurt is so much more dramatic in person. Props to her for continuing to skate as well as she has given the changes in her body and training bases over the last year but I am really worried about her future. I so hope she can regain her spark because she has such a special quality when she's on but I worry that she will not be able to consistently perform the technical content she demonstrated a few years ago.

She looked dramatically different on the arena Jumbotron from her hotel room. I could have walked by her in the street and never known who she was. She really doesn’t seem happy either. I’m worried about her as well.

 

[moonvine]

There's no reason for Alysa to be in the team event right now. She underrotates her jumps, has worse skating, and doesn't appear able to land the 3Axel< reliably anymore. She seems to have lost some confidence and now she's off the ice because of covid too. Without a landed 3Axel<, her PCS will definitely drop internationally. That element was increasing her clout with the judges.

Karen actually has the higher average SP score over Mariah. So it would make sense to have her there, and Mariah in the LP.

Whoever skates in the team event will almost certainly have to skate both. Unless something terrible happens with Covid, men and dance will split. Unfortunately Covid seems a more treacherous enemy than any skater this year.

 

[skatingiscool]

There's no reason for Alysa to be in the team event right now. She underrotates her jumps, has worse skating, and doesn't appear able to land the 3Axel< reliably anymore. She seems to have lost some confidence and now she's off the ice because of covid too. Without a landed 3Axel<, her PCS will definitely drop internationally. That element was increasing her clout with the judges.

Karen actually has the higher average SP score over Mariah. So it would make sense to have her there, and Mariah in the LP.

It's time to come with the fact and number. Let's look at the lowest score for this season:
Mariah Bell Cranberry Cup: 179.42
Karen Chan CS autumn classic international: 173 ( 183.41 at Skate Canada)
Alysa Liu NHK GP: 202.9 (Fall on 3A in SP)

Alysa has higher average score for this season.
In terms of consistency: Alysa > Mariah > Karen

There is a big risk for Karen to do team event, you never know how she will deliver next time. Karen lost to Madeline Schizas at Skate Canada GP. What's happen if Karen lose to Canada team at team event again? Even Alysa falls on 3A and underrotates 3-3, she still manages to score over 200 in both GP. Also, we cannot judge Alysa and Amber's national SP because of COVID. If Amber doesn't has COVID, may be she would perform much better? Who knows. Nobody knows Alysa current form because we don't get the chance to see her FP.

I do hope USFSA can do an in house test skate just before Olympics. It's very likely that one of women (Alysa, Mariah, Karen) has to skate BOTH SP and LP. Hope USFSA can wait for Alysa's negative COVID test before making decision. We don't know how much COVID affect her at this point.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Alysa has higher average score for this season.

That doesn't mean much when she's on downward trend and those scores were given mainly because of the 3A hype, which she seems to be losing. Her body has still been growing and now she has covid. If she gets to the Olympics and is cleanly landing every 3A< in practice, then sure choose her, but that doesn't seem to be the most realistic outcome right now.

 

[Dawn825]

Gracie had a very nice SP moment, and I was kind of hoping being in the final group would have revved up a competitive energy but it didnt. Still, her SP was one of the very few emotional moments of the event, I wish het the best of luck with whatever she decides to do next.
So devastating for Amber, and to not even have a chance at redemption in the free or at 4CC.
Speedy recoveries to her and Alysa, whom I'd have been very curious to see do a long program. With her mindset being such a question mark, it would have been an opportunity to see how hard she's actually training and how much she wants it. I didn't watch the practices. Hopefully being named to the team gives her the motivation to get through the next few weeks.
Mariah and Karen were fine and basically interchangeable in my mind. Nice performances, squirrelly jumps, didnt fall. I'm happy for them but not impressed or moved. Idk what the fed will do for the team event. They were probably planning to give it all to Alysa - now Mariah's gonna do both?
I'm feeling less optimistic about the juniors than I was after the JGP. Isabeau was stunning in the short (her long put me to sleep) but she needs to change coaches. She uses all the same poor jump technique as the Russians without any of the speed or power. I can't see her being competitve without some serious work. And I sincerely hope she does work on those things because she is so clearly a star.
Lindsay is so physically gifted in her extension, flexibility, knee bend, etc and I'm sure she works very hard at those things. Personally I find her glaringly uncharismatic.

 

[moonvine]

Gracie had a very nice SP moment, and I was kind of hoping being in the final group would have revved up a competitive energy but it didnt. Still, her SP was one of the very few emotional moments of the event, I wish het the best of luck with whatever she decides to do next.

Hopefully that will be skating next season

 

[skatingiscool]

Isabeau is stunning. I don't know how her jumps will look like 2 years later. Can Isabeau survive puberty and retain all the jumps? Time can tell. Lindsay has the best potential out of all juniors so far. Lindsay is Bradie#2 IMO. Solid jumps. Very flexible spins. Lindsay's artistry is not there yet but she will get there. Kudo to Lindsay for her gutsy and try out 3A. Juniors are more dazzling than Veterans at Nats.

 

[mskater93]

"She should have won two years ago" is not a reason to hand a win to someone at other superior athletes' expense. Very disappointed at the blatant robbery tonight but at least the "poor Mariah" narrative can end now.

Superior athlete? Karen Chen? Who had at least 4 jumps in the FS that were visibly short rotation? I know, the tech panel *only* called 1, but there were clearly at least 4 in real time. It was a joke that they weren't called. Skating is a SPORT above an artistic endeavor.

Isabeau Levito? She's still lacking in power and speed.

Gabby Izzo? Uh no

Lindsay Thorngren? She had some mess going on...

 

[purplecat]

Some names I know from a few years before were missing, so can anyone update me on Ting Cui and Pooja Kalyan? Are they still skating?

Ting skated in the qualifying series but failed to qualify for Nationals. I believe Pooja was listed to compete in the qualifying series but withdrew.

 

[princessalica]

Maybe the judges were leaning towards Mariah Bell, but I certainly don't think they handed her the title. If Karen Chen hadn't UR'd or if Isabeau Levito had jumped 3As and quads, then it would probably be a different story. And I doubt in those scenarios that Mariah would have won. In fact, that's basically what happened 2 years ago when she lost to Alysa Liu.

I certainly don't think that Isabeau Levito's backloaded 3-3's alone should have given her the title. Especially since she had slight issues on 2 of the combos (I think). But this type of program is certainly a step in the right direction in order for the US Ladies to become more successful at international competitions. And I applaud her (and Lindsey Thorngren) for these efforts. And yes she does have a lot of beautiful moves, but I think she does need some more "oomph" (for lack of a better term). In other words, she kind of reminds me of Ksenia Sinitsyna who did do quite well in her 1st senior season but was often overwhelmed/overshadowed by more dynamic performances from the Russian and Japanese skaters. Over the years, it often seems like the "gentle" skaters have to skate 100% squeaky clean in order for the judges to sit up and take notice.

Just talking about Isabeau Levito now since she finished on the podium here and DID have a chance to win given her more difficult jumping passes. I hope going forward that unrealistic expectations are not placed on her - in particular because she won a Junior GP event, but in which a lot of the top competitors were absent. This type of pressure has certainly not been helpful in the past to skaters like Mirai Nagasu, Gracie Gold, or even Alysa Liu. And I'm sure there were others who I can't recall at this time.

Just thought, Isabeau and this years nationals kind of reminds me of when Nathan was an up and comer fresh out of Juniors. There was the year that he placed third with all of his quads and high tech, and the next year he took over. I'd say that is a pretty solid possibility for Isabeau. Placing third isn't bad, and I think it sets the stage for her future. Or one of the other girls will come up and best here. But I really did enjoy watching Isabeau skate at this nationals.

 

[Skatingcat]

Unpopular opinion, so please don't old school "flame" me, but I don't think Alyssa should go. She doesn't seem to really want to be there. Her body posture (and her kind of flipping off the camera during her short program kiss n cry) makes me doubt her attitude and desire to really go. And it's clear that many others (Amber Glenn for one, even though I'm not her biggest fan) are dying to go.

 

[lesnar001]

Unpopular opinion, so please don't old school "flame" me, but I don't think Alyssa should go. She doesn't seem to really want to be there. Her body posture (and her kind of flipping off the camera during her short program kiss n cry) makes me doubt her attitude and desire to really go. And it's clear that many others (Amber Glenn for one, even though I'm not her biggest fan) are dying to go.

Not going to "flame" you, but I don't agree with your assessment. I saw someone else reference her "flipping off" the camera so I watched the SP again and I still don't see it? I saw her flash the "peace sign" (at least that's what it used to be called) with both hands, but she often does that.

I would think if she didn't want to go, she wouldn't have petitioned after she couldn't compete in the LP. And I certainly don't think she would have made a coaching change if she didn't care about the Olympics.

I've noticed at times she appears to be blase about things (like saying skating is a "hobby"), but I see that more as a way of taking pressure off herself by trying not to be so serious. The only thing I see as keeping her from the Olympics would be if she is not physically well enough by then.

 

[moonvine]

Not going to "flame" you, but I don't agree with your assessment. I saw someone else reference her "flipping off" the camera so I watched the SP again and I still don't see it? I saw her flash the "peace sign" (at least that's what it used to be called) with both hands, but she often does that.

I would think if she didn't want to go, she wouldn't have petitioned after she couldn't compete in the LP. And I certainly don't think she would have made a coaching change if she didn't care about the Olympics.

I've noticed at times she appears to be blase about things (like saying skating is a "hobby"), but I see that more as a way of taking pressure off herself by trying not to be so serious. The only thing I see as keeping her from the Olympics would be if she is not physically well enough by then.

Alysa’s demeanor is 100% changed from Cranberry Cup. I’m concerned about her as a person. Beyond skating.