New Sasha journal ... 8/24/05 | Page 5 | Golden Skate

New Sasha journal ... 8/24/05

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Red Dog said:
I meant how many TIMES she's actually SKATED the song in competition, NOT how many SEASONS she's used it!

I agree, it's four seasons, and that's a lot (or at least it sounds like it is). But how many times has she actually PERFORMED the piece in competition?

Maybe the Russian version of row row row your boat really floats your boat. IMO once a season is one time too many
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
gezando said:
Everyone responds to that different, and handles that differently. I love Mendelssohn's E minor Violin Concerto and Cohen butchered it and ruined it for me for a long time. I can not just listen to it, because she or her team butchered the editing of the piece too

alrighty then, but just because one skater did a not-so-good routine to it shouldn't absolutely RUIN the SONG (that's JMPOV though). Maybe you see it differently. But after Kwan basically blew Bolero for the LP, I will not give her the power to ruin listening to the song for me. Only I have control over that. Same with Fallin'.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
gezando said:
Maybe the Russian version of row row row your boat really floats your boat. IMO once a season is one time too many

No it doesn't, BTW. Who told you otherwise?

I asked a simple question. All I want to know is the answer...
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Red Dog said:
On the topic of skaters "challenging" themselves to try "original" music, I'd like a few posters with a history of skating knowledge to enlighten me as to the rare ones who have done this. (Forget Kwan in the late 90s, BTW- I know that. But who else).

After Kwan skated to Lyra Angelica cto for harp and orchestra in 98, Ruh skated to Gliere's harp cto, IMO it was very original,and harp cto is not easy to skate to.
AP's chopin etude her 02 sp is difficult, b/c Chopin is not easy to skate to and solo piano is tough.
S&P's Tristan und Isolde, at least they tried
Ota's Japanese drum program a couple of seasons ago
I think Iriana programs from time to time, e.g the Bolt by Shostakovich this past season. (I am glad she chose the Bolt, Shostakovich had such a tortuous history with his government, it is nice that Iriana won world gold with this piece)
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Red Dog said:
alrighty then, but just because one skater did a not-so-good routine to it shouldn't absolutely RUIN the SONG (that's JMPOV though). Maybe you see it differently. But after Kwan basically blew Bolero for the LP, I will not give her the power to ruin listening to the song for me. Only I have control over that. Same with Fallin'.

Kwan did not butcher the editing of Bolero, Cohen butchered the Mendelssohn E minor with her skating and the aweful editing.

Like I said before, musiclaly speaking I don't like most old war horses, so Cohen can't ruin the pieces for me

BTW I have about 12 different recordings of the Mendelssohn e minor, how many Bolero cd do you have? Seriously how much do you love fallin or Bolero??

I am alone alone in this. One of my friend who is a professional pianist told me that some people ruined Mendelssohn's oratorio Elias for life, because he used to play the accompanyment for their singing in music summer camp, and their aweful singing ruined that piece for him for life.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Kwan did not butcher the editing of Bolero, Cohen's butchered the Mendelssohn E minor with her skating and the aweful editing.

It's a matter of opinion- IMO Team Kwan did not really "butcher" the editing of Bolero (although in any song you have to cut short could count as "butchering") but to make a 17-minute song into a 4 minute song took quite a bit of editing. But it was OK. I can't speak for the other pieces though.

BTW I have about 12 different recordings of the Mendelssohn e minor, how many Bolero cd do you have? Seriously how much do you love fallin or Bolero??

Of course it depends on the "interpreter" (the player) how good the song is. Some artists have "better" interpretations of the music than others. Having taken piano lessons for some time, I'm pretty aware of this issue. I have heard three renditions of Bolero (including Kwan's version), and there is one I like in particular. I don't know which orchestra does it, but I much prefer that to Kwan's. Kwan's I feel went a little fast (as did the other version I mentioned). The one I like goes a little slower and I feel has more of the "suspense" factor (for lack of a better term).

Of course, this is all JMO.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Red Dog said:
It's a matter of opinion- IMO Team Kwan did not really "butcher" the editing of Bolero (although in any song you have to cut short could count as "butchering") but to make a 17-minute song into a 4 minute song took quite a bit of editing. But it was OK. I can't speak for the other pieces though.
Of course, this is all JMO.
It's a lot easier than cutting a 3 hour opera or ballet to 4 minutes, or doing a single to a pas de deux.

Joe
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Joesitz said:
It's a lot easier than cutting a 3 hour opera or ballet to 4 minutes, or doing a single to a pas de deux.

Joe

Yeah, that's true as well.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
gezando said:
You have been generally classifying skaters as lyrical or bravura (like dancers are classified??) That is a bit interesting. For me an artist ( at least a concert pianist e.g. ) is capable of a wide range of performance style from lyrical to bravura and all shades in between. In order to achieve this artistic ideal, they are willing to face the challenge and try. I remember Rene Flemming who took over a year to practice and prepared herself to record an album of bel canto arias because she was had generally shy away from the bel canto reportoire
In the world of the violin which I am sure you are knowledgeable, Menunhin I would consider a lyric violinist and Heifits a bravura violinist. This is not to say that Menunhin could not go bravura and Heifitz could not go lyric. They could but their audience will ahhh at the terms I mentioned first.

There are dancers who sell to the audience their great technique and there are dancers who dance completely into the music without looking for applause (except at the conclusion of the performance) and they, too, can reverse rolls but their strength is in technique or in lyricism. The White Swan as opposed to the Black Swan if you know the ballet.

Joe
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Gezando said:
You are responding to my response to jesslily. I was posting jesslilly who said the Red Violin is a depressing piece of music, and she doubt anyone likes to listen to it
I know.:)

Gezando "quoting" Rgirl said:
repeating choreography
Hate to be persnickity, but I assume you're "quoting" me since you're doing so from my Post #68 in the rest of your Post #75, but I never said "repeating choreography."
Rgirl Post #68 said:
So I don't mind warhorse music; what I mind is warhorse choreography.
S'Okay. We all make mistakes.

Joe -- Thanks a bunch for the tip on Wheeldon's "American in Paris" at NYC Ballet. I've always wanted to see a live production of "AinP"; I''m calling NYC Ballet today! Also, ITA with you about Kurt. He's my best argument for the role of pro skating. Loved him before he went pro and his first couple of years as a pro were rocky. But after he got together with Sonia, I felt he became one of a handful of truly transcendant skaters. Off-topic--sorry.

Red Dog -- Love your avatar story, plus it gives me the chance to say, "You lucky dog!" :biggrin:

Rgirl -- Definitely (take note spellers; Grgranny is everywhere) back on vacation.
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Joseitz, I am not sure they are actually editing a 3 – 6 hr opera to 4 mins. Take example of Tristan und Isolde, Lori edited the 11 min prelude to a 4 min program for S&P. So Wagner edited the 6 hr opera to the 11 min prelude.

Sarah Hughes, Arakawa, Ota’s Turnadot program were all taken from a Turandot fantasy. Same with Cohen’s Carmen program. These orchestral fantasies of operas are usually about 20 min long.

Therefore I disagree that editing Bolero from a 17 min to a 4 min piece is easier than editing a 11 min Tristan prelude to a 4 min piece

About doing a single to Pas de deux: I believe you are the one who told us that to interpret a piece does not mean skating the story in 4 min. Pas des deux is just a lyric piece of music, it does not scream for pairs, I definitely do not agree that skating single to Pas de deux is easier than skating to Bolero.

Reddog, we have different definitions of “butcher” When a well seamless editing of a longer piece to a 4 min program that to me is editing.

For me butchering means
1. When a, skater, soloist completely ignores e.g. the mood / essence of the piece, and uses that to glorify themselves (perfectly understandable that there should be certain degree of artistic freedom). Mutter’s interpretation of Vivaldi’s four seasons, or Mutti’s interpretation of Beethoven’s violin sonata come to mind

Or

2, When a performer has no clue about what the piece is about and completely misinterprets it. For example Perlman being lyric and pretty when he played Shastokovich’s VC (which calls for a soloist to sweat blood, and soul)

For the record team Kwan had to edit a 16 min 30 sec (or you said 17 min) Bolero to 4 min. Cohen and team only used the first movements from Mendelssohn’s VC, and this movemnt is about 16 min long also
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
gezando said:
Joseitz, I am not sure they are actually editing a 3 – 6 hr opera to 4 mins. Take example of Tristan und Isolde, Lori edited the 11 min prelude to a 4 min program for S&P. So Wagner edited the 6 hr opera to the 11 min prelude.
What I was trying to say if someone is using Butterfly, and stabbing herself at the end to signify the opera, and someone doing Queen of Spades and starts dealing out a deck of cards also to show something that should be obvious This is so sophmoric, imo, and definitely belongs in a Children's Pagaent.

The skaters should show the essence of the music and not play up the 3 hour story in 4 minutes. In fact they don't even have to use the story. Just give me the feel of how the skater (team) is feeling that particular piece of music. JMO.

In the case of Sale and Pelletier, their Wagner which I considered their best work captured the essence of the music and a love affair. It was not necessarily Tristan and Isolde. Again, JMO.

I have seen many European skaters who like to tack on a tidbit from whatever music they are skating to show how clever they are (not!). Batting the eyelashes in Carmen; a struggling Colombus; Flailing arms to show the Swan Queen, etc., etc.

Just give me good skating in the lyric or bravura style without the phony acoutrements.

Joe
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Joesitz said:
What I was trying to say if someone is using Butterfly, and stabbing herself at the end to signify the opera, and someone doing Queen of Spades and starts dealing out a deck of cards also to show something that should be obvious This is so sophmoric, imo, and definitely belongs in a Children's Pagaent.

But these skaters fans have never claimed that their skater is Gods gift to skating, or the most artistic skater in the whole universe. JMO there is a lot more to being artistic than pointing the toes, musical versatility e.g.

In fact they don't even have to use the story. Just give me the feel of how the skater (team) is feeling that particular piece of music. JMO.

Then JMO, skating single to Pas des deux shouldn't be more difficult than skating to Bolero as you suggested. (unless I misuinderstood you)

About doing a single to Pas de deux: I believe you are the one who told us that to interpret a piece does not mean skating the story in 4 min. The essence of Pas de deux is just a lyric piece of music, musically, JMO, it does not scream for pairs, so in what way is it more difficult than skating (single) to Boiero

In the case of Sale and Pelletier, their Wagner which I considered their best work captured the essence of the music and a love affair. It was not necessarily Tristan and Isolde. Again, JMO.

I was talking about music editing. I was talking about Lori's job of editing a 11 min Tristan prelude to a 4 min piece is not that difficult, since Wagner had already done the job. About Sale and Pelletier's performance IMO deserve a world gold, but they do not come up to Wagner's greatness. The essence of the prelude to me is not even necessarily about the love affair. It is about the polar opposites of tension, release, betrayal, loyalty, life and death. Tough stuff artistically to communicate to the audience
 
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nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Joesitz said:
What I was trying to say if someone is using Butterfly, and stabbing herself at the end to signify the opera, and someone doing Queen of Spades and starts dealing out a deck of cards also to show something that should be obvious This is so sophmoric, imo, and definitely belongs in a Children's Pagaent.

The skaters should show the essence of the music and not play up the 3 hour story in 4 minutes. In fact they don't even have to use the story. Just give me the feel of how the skater (team) is feeling that particular piece of music. JMO.

Just give me good skating in the lyric or bravura style without the phony acoutrements.

Joe

Brilliant Joe ... just brilliant!!! :clap:
This is exactly how I feel, but could never have said it as well as you. :agree:
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
A Singalong

SKATE SKATE SKATE YOUR SHORT
TO A BORING TUNE
BEAVERLY CLEAVERLY BEAVERLY CLEAVERLY
HOPE YOU WIN WORLDS SOON

Everybody sing! :rock:

Rgirl
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Rgirl said:
SKATE SKATE SKATE YOUR SHORT
TO A BORING TUNE
BEAVERLY CLEAVERLY BEAVERLY CLEAVERLY
HOPE YOU WIN WORLDS SOON

Everybody sing! :rock:

Rgirl

:laugh:
 

JOHIO2

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
gezando,

how can anyone or anything permanently ruin such a rich classic as Mendelssohns's Elijah? especially a mere pianist and campers. a big part of the beauty of the oratorio is the orchestra. now, if the soloists were crummy....... :biggrin:

okay, so campers can't sing. but i think it's great that they studied such great music, even if they weren't up to a professional performance.

got a special place in my heart for that music.
 
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gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
JOHIO2 said:
gezando,

how can anyone or anything permanently ruin such a rich classic as Mendelssohns's Elijah? especially a mere pianist and campers. a big part of the beauty of the oratorio is the orchestra. now, if the soloists were crummy....... :biggrin:

okay, so campers can't sing. but i think it's great that they studied such great music, even if they weren't up to a professional performance.

got a special place in my heart for that music.

I guess at the time, my friend was in HS himself, when he played the orchestra part on the piano for the other HS kids who were singing the chorus and soloists parts.

I like the soloists in this one, and Fischer Dieskau is powerful

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1180409

I think a great artist has such versatility that s/he is able to take on a wide range. In the case of Fischer Dieskau, he was equally comfortable as the righteous prophet Elijah or the sleazy count in le nozze di figaro

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1183643
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Hey, they just showed a citizen's watch ad featuring Sasha on the U.S. Open tennis coverage on CBS. It showed Sasha spinning, etc., and the watch, with a voice-over saying "Unstopable? Sasha Cohen is!"

Go Sasha!

Mathman :)
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
I had a Citizen's watch once, looked good and flexible, but could not count on it when it was needed most. It was very stopable at the major events
 
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