Who Is Criticized The Most In The Forums?

R.D. · Sep 18, 2005

This is meant to be a follow up to the other poll I started about who is gushed about/who receives the most attention from fans. Keep in mind this is not limited to harsh criticism/bashing but just criticism as a whole (the constructive kind). In other words, those skaters who aren't praised are most likely either left alone or criticized. And some skaters get plenty of both.

Mathman · Sep 18, 2005

Sasha receives the most intense adverse criticism -- sometimes, IMHO, bordering on the :sheesh: She also receives some praise, but comparatively little constructive or friendly criticism.

Michelle receives the most criticism of a well-intentioned nature. Most Michelle fans (on this board anyway) are not shy about giving advice to their fave. Things like, don't skip the Grand Prix, up the ante technically, do this or that or the other to take better advantage of the New Judging System, I like this music but I don't like that, etc., etc.

Mathman

BronzeisGolden · Sep 18, 2005

This is a tough one. I don't think I could really choose. They all receive their fair share of criticism at times. None, to me, are universally praised. This definitely is true on a general board like GS. Now, if we were looking at a more fan specific board (such as Sashafans or MKF) then the answer would be very easy. But, as I see it, they all get slammed or criticized fairly equally here.

Mathman · Sep 18, 2005

Red Dog, I'm curious. Why single out Emanuel Sandhu?

I think for the men, almost all of the criticism on this board is of the constructive variety, at least in its intention. Johnny I love you, but you'll never get gold without a quad. That sort of thing.

R.D. · Sep 18, 2005

Everyone gets criticized to a degree. This is true. But what also is true is some skaters tend to get more criticism than others.

Who does? It's rather subjective but there's a trend. I tend to think the OGM winners Sarah and Tara (esp. Sarah) really get bad raps here. At FSU it's the opposite (Tara gets relentless criticism). So for that reason I picked Tara.

MK gets criticized a lot as well (I'd put her second actually) but the praise and the gushing more than makes up for it.

And then Sasha. I agree with MM that most of the criticism she receives isn't the good kind. She's definitely up there. (Once again though, she also gets TONS of praise so it evens out in the end.)

The criticism will vary from board to board, but I want to do this in a general nature. Of all the boards you've been to, who do you think is the most criticized? (Include good AND bad criticism (bashing) here.)

R.D. · Sep 18, 2005

Mathman said:
Red Dog, I'm curious. Why single out Emanuel Sandhu?

There was a thread about him that I read earlier. I don't know whether it was here at GS or at FSU. But anyway, some people really rag on him for being inconsistent/unpredictable (think about Sasha). I included him because I think he creates a lot of "frustrated fans". (like Sasha, again.)

JMO. I don't know if anyone will pick him, though.

Mathman · Sep 18, 2005

About Sarah, I think most of the criticism now centers around the question of whether she really has a future skating in shows, what with her technical skills havng declined from disuse. To me, 99% of the contributors (to GS anyway) would rather tiptoe politely around the issue, rather than say something that might hurt Sarah's feelings (or the feelings of her fans).

Same with Tara. The rivalry she once had with Michelle was so long ago, who cares about that any more? Now I think 99% of skating fans feel bad that her career was tragically cut short by health challenges and wish her well in her future endeavors.

Good point about Eman (and Sasha). They are both gorgeous skaters who could be world beaters, if only, if only, if only...

Mathman

PS. I don't read other boards very much, so I am going mostly by Golden Skate.

R.D. · Sep 18, 2005

Mathman said:
About Sarah, I think most of the criticism now centers around the question of whether she really has a future skating in shows, what with her technical skills havng declined from disuse. To me, 99% of the contributors (to GS anyway) would rather tiptoe politely around the issue, rather than say something that might hurt Sarah's feelings (or the feelings of her fans).

Yes. Theoretically, that's definitely possible. But out of the 1% who DO choose to contribute to the discussion, there has been quite a bit of criticism of her. (Remember all those comments about her weight? :sheesh: ) But I definitely think that it stems from Sarah being "technically behind" the other skaters in the show. I wonder if she'll do it next year.

Same with Tara. The rivalry she once had with Michelle was so long ago, who cares about that any more? Now I think 99% of skating fans feel bad that her career was tragically cut short by health challenges and wish her well in her future endeavors.

Ha! You'd think so, right? However, every time a Tara thread is started (typically elsewhere, not here), it's "bash her and rag on her" time.

Good point about Eman (and Sasha). They are both gorgeous skaters who could be world beaters, if only, if only, if only...

...they'd stop skating! :laugh:

Tonichelle · Sep 18, 2005

Mathman said:
Sasha receives the most intense adverse criticism -- sometimes, IMHO, bordering on the :sheesh: She also receives some praise, but comparatively little constructive or friendly criticism.

Mathman

I agree with this... some of the nit-picky things are just so out there and of a who cares nature... just look at the complaints you see when she updates her journal. Like it's her job to tell us what her skating is up to and that's it. :sheesh:
So that's who I voted for

though Michael Weiss gets a lot of flack on boards even when he HASN'T said anything off the wall :no:

R.D. · Sep 18, 2005

though Michael Weiss gets a lot of flack on boards even when he HASN'T said anything off the wall

Michael Weiss. I forgot about him. He's another one that gets a lot of flack, no doubt. I would have added him to the poll had I remembered but now it's too late.

JonnyCoop · Sep 19, 2005

Sarah seems to get a lot of criticism, from what I've noticed; there was a thread going on about a year ago where I could not BELIEVE the amount of flack she was getting, so maybe that's why she stands out in my mind.

Sasha and Michelle get their share, too; I've noticed -- not on this board as on some others -- that there seems to be a mentality wherein you either gotta like one or the other, you can't like them both. One board in particular I don't even go to anymore because it was just getting NASTY, even in thoroughly unrelated topics. One could start a thread about the current state of Ice Dance in South Korea and within 4 posts, it would somehow turn into another Cohen fan-Kwan fan battle.

I will agree also that Michael Weiss gets quite a bit of it, too -- BUT since I have done my fair share of that criticism of Mr. Weiss (ALL HE HAS TO DO IS GET HIMSELF SOME DECENT CHOREOGRAPHY AGAIN!! That's ALL I'M ASKING!!!) I guess I'd hardly be one to really notice it all that much. I guess you probably notice criticism more when it involves a skater you really like a lot.

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 19, 2005

There are so many kinds of criticism. Critical acclaim; critical bash, frustrated criticism, corrective criticism, negative criticism, posititive criticism, et al.

I for one am a Kwan fan but I am also her worst frustrated critic. No gush from me unless I see the improvement I want.

Joe

R.D. · Sep 19, 2005

I for one am a Kwan fan but I am also her worst frustrated critic. No gush from me unless I see the improvement I want.

JonnyCoop · Sep 19, 2005

Joesitz said:
There are so many kinds of criticism. Critical acclaim; critical bash, frustrated criticism, corrective criticism, negative criticism, posititive criticism, et al.

I for one am a Kwan fan but I am also her worst frustrated critic. No gush from me unless I see the improvement I want.

Joe

This is absolutely true. Actually, given my rather Clintonesque take on the definition of the word "gushing" in the related thread, I'm surprised I didn't pick up on this concept myself.

And I know what you mean about Kwan -- I personally don't apply that to her personally, but there are a few skaters out there that I feel that way about.

R.D. · Sep 19, 2005

And for the analysis...

I know only 13 people have voted so far, but I will pick apart the results anyway. Kwan and Slutskaya have the lead with 3 votes, Hughes and Lipinski have 2, and Cohen, Other Male Skater, and A Pairs or Dance Team have 1.

A few observations:

- Interesting that Cohen has only one vote. I would have thought she would get a little more out of 13 votes.

- Irina is one that is criticized a lot. The criticism she gets seems to vary. The most common one I see is her overuse of Bielmann spins. But the points used to make that criticism vary from poster to poster. Some say simply that "I wish she wouldn't overuse it" yet others resort to some smart aleck remark about Bielmanns being required to win or do well from now on (or something like that).

- The two OGM medallists have been subjected to their fair share of criticism, the majority of it not being the good kind. but because they aren't in the competitive skating world anymore, it's tough to measure this. I think most discussion about them is criticism, but name any one of the top skaters today and each one is discussed more than all the OGMs put together.

- I don't know much about the male skater discussions since I don't participate in, nor have any interest in them. But a lot of the ones I do see are gush threads. But that's for the gushing topic.

Mathman · Sep 19, 2005

Red Dog said:
... others resort to some smart aleck remark about Bielmanns being required to win or do well from now on (or something like that).

Actually, many of the posts that make this point are not criticisms of Irina at all, IMHO. Either the remarks are intended to criticize the ISU for elevating this particular trick in the CoP, or else to congratulate Irina for being savvy enough to max out her points.

R.D. · Sep 19, 2005

Mathman said:
Actually, many of the posts that make this point are not criticisms of Irina at all, IMHO. Either the remarks are intended to criticize the ISU for elevating this particular trick in the CoP, or else to congratulate Irina for being savvy enough to max out her points.

Maybe some people don't mean ill towards Irina when they make that comment. but it's still a disguised snark IMO.

But the ISU point is very valid. I agree that the Bielmann does get a lot of attention under this new system. Otherwise, why do them?

BronzeisGolden · Sep 19, 2005

The criticism will vary from board to board, but I want to do this in a general nature. Of all the boards you've been to, who do you think is the most criticized? (Include good AND bad criticism (bashing) here.)

Okay, thanks for the clarification, Red Dog. Hmmmm.....still a tough one! As you have mentioned, criticism of the two OGMs can get pretty intense......but it doesn't occur as frequently as instances of criticism directed towards current competitors. I'd probably go with Sasha. She gets so much flack for not living up to her potential. Everyone is watching to see if she will implode or not, while so many fully expect her to self-destruct. She also gets slammed for her personality and many of her career choices.

Maybe some people don't mean ill towards Irina when they make that comment. but it's still a disguised snark IMO.

Maybe in some cases. But, overall, I think that criticism of Irina has really hit a low point. Most people seem to respect her for her latest comeback....and even her most ardent detractors now at least have some good things to say about her skating. IMO, Irina was heavily criticized pre-2002 (especially before her comeback in 2000). If this poll had been conducted a few years ago, I might have considered Irina more seriously.

R.D. · Sep 19, 2005

[Sasha] gets so much flack for not living up to her potential. Everyone is watching to see if she will implode or not, while so many fully expect her to self-destruct. She also gets slammed for her personality and many of her career choices.

I agree. IMO it seems to have died down somewhat actually since 2005, where I believe many people have just given up on her and now expect her to "self-destruct". (However. I have a problem with that word- usually she just falls once and has a major stumble on another jump. That's pretty average and I can't consider that a "meltdown" by any means. However the two instances she fell three times, I would say that qualifies.) I think people consider any "bobble" by her to be a "meltdown" because she's "talented" and they enjoy watching her and want to be wowed by her. I know I expect her now to mess up and a clean skate from her would be the exception rather than the rule. But will it ever happen, and if it does, will it happen in the right place? Stay tuned.

As for her personality, I think that's a thing of the past. IMO I don't think she's changed her personality per se (she still seems like the "headstrong" type to me) but what she has learned to do with maturing is keep it low-key in the public sector. No more of that supposed "playing up drama" with Nicks and Cohen any more. So over time, the "personality bashes" have dwindled down. Just my take on it.

By "career choices" I think you mean coaching changes, don't you? She's had 3 (IIRC) in the past 4 years. Now I do agree with this and I think that this is where she receives the most criticism actually. She gives her detractors fuel every time she falls or she changes coaches, because they (the choices) just affirm what the people already think.

Maybe in some cases. But, overall, I think that criticism of Irina has really hit a low point. Most people seem to respect her for her latest comeback....and even her most ardent detractors now at least have some good things to say about her skating. IMO, Irina was heavily criticized pre-2002 (especially before her comeback in 2000). If this poll had been conducted a few years ago, I might have considered Irina more seriously.

I'm tempted to agree here as well. But remember that the worst of detractors will never see good in whomever they are detracting.

Jaana · Sep 20, 2005

I chose Tara Lipinski, because I believe that no other skater has been hated as much as she has been as soon as she was seen as a threat to Michelle Kwan in competitions. And Tara got hated even more since she had her first win over Michelle. I don´t think that Tara ever got even one undeserved win over Michelle. That same hate continued after Tara turned pro, even then she was not forgiven her Nagano Olympics win... I don´t think she ever will!

What makes me very sad is the fact that way too many skating fans turned that senseless and venomous Tara hate also towards SOI and badmouthed or ridiculed the 1999-2002 tours on forums, because Tara was one of the headliners. And that senseless and undeserved hate of course besides reflecting to SOI and its success, also reflected to the success of other SOI skaters during that time.

Who Is Criticized The Most In The Forums?

Which one of these skaters gets the most criticism from skating fans?

Sarah Hughes

Tara Lipinski

Michelle Kwan

Sasha Cohen

Irina Slutskaya

Other Female Skater Not Listed Here

Emanuel Sandhu

Other Male Skater

A Pairs or Dance Team

R.D.

Mathman

BronzeisGolden

Mathman

R.D.

R.D.

Mathman

R.D.

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

R.D.

JonnyCoop

Joesitz (RIP)

R.D.

JonnyCoop

R.D.

Mathman

R.D.

BronzeisGolden

R.D.

Jaana

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