2005 Nationals on ESPN last evening - Sasha Cohen's long program | Golden Skate

2005 Nationals on ESPN last evening - Sasha Cohen's long program

S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
I turned on the television shortly after 9 last evening, did some surfing of the channels, and just happened to click onto ESPN, which was televising the ladie's long program from this year's US Nationals. As timing would have it, I saw Sasha Cohen's entire long program. I have to say that I was more impressed with her skating than I have ever been. She skated with a lot of fire and confidence - and with a beautiful smile! She seemed to really enjoy herself out there, and it showed with her performance! Sasha is a stunning young woman, and she skated a wonderful program. Great job, Sasha! :clap:
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I didn't catch ESPN's repeat, but I remember Sasha's skating from Nationals this year and I've never seen her look so happy. I think that being injured for most of the season helped her go into Nationals with the mentality of just being happy to qualify for the team verses having to win it all. I hope that she focuses on enjoying the competition and her skating verses getting in that win or else mode.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I believe during that performance and during worlds she actually fought through her programs. That's a new concept for her. She is slowly learning that making one mistake does not necessarily mean the end. However, to be in contention for an OGM she needs to be mistake free- even one bobble could cost her if someone else breaks down the door she leaves open.
 

Kathy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Well I was at nationals and up front during the performances, and I was not impressed with her skate, although compared to how her practices looked, she did well, as from her practices I thought she was going to fall a lot more than she did. Her jumps all week were really shaky, and she looked slow and tentative. As much as I wanted MK to win, I felt sorry for Sasha as I thought that they may just give the silver to Kimmie. Even though Sasha 's presentation was better than Kimmie's. Sasha fell on one jump, and had scratchy or two footed landings on at least two others. Her smile looked pasted on and as Dick would say "did not extend to her eyes."
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Kathy said:
Her smile looked pasted on and as Dick would say "did not extend to her eyes."

I don't know how you can tell whether a skater's smile extends to her eyes when you're sitting in a audience (even if you are in front row) because when I watch live skating, I'm lucky if I can see the skater's face, let alone analyze facial expressions. While you are in a better position to assess Sasha's skating compared to the others b/c you were there, I think that most people who watched the performance on TV would beg to differ on your assessment of her facial expression. I've seen Sasha skate numerous times on television and most of the time she never has a real smile on her face. This time her eyes were twinkling and she looked pleased in the Kiss and Cry.
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
soogar said:
I've seen Sasha skate numerous times on television and most of the time she never has a real smile on her face. This time her eyes were twinkling and she looked pleased in the Kiss and Cry.

Looking pleased in the kiss and cry has nothing to do with whether her eyes were smiling during her skate.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I didn't see the TV version, which is usually close up because the camera follows.

I did see the LIVE in Portland. the SP was really special. She carried that music to the hilt and facial expression was right on. Loved it.

The LP, as I remember, was somewhat flat. Sitting by the judges, I watched her gussy up to them especially in showing off the extensions. She was not into Nutcracker and I don't blame her. That music is extremely schmaltzy and Sasha was just not getting into the schmaltz. She was concentrating on her technical which except for the week jumps was more than adequate.

Her LP in Moscow, however, despite the flubs was very much warmer and she did make something more out of Nutcracker. I'm looking forward to an even more warmer Sasha this year.

Joe
 

vixen62025

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I was at Nationals too, and I felt Sasha skated with much more freedom and expresiveness than in the SP, where she seemed very uptight until almost the very end. I was just not particularly wild about either of those programs, and wish she would have dumped both of them for this season.

I wondered if her back was still bothering her a bit at Nationals, since her jumps seemed smaller than they have in a long while. They did seem a bit bigger in Moscow (although I am basing that solely on TV and internet coverage).
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
vixen62025 said:
I wondered if her back was still bothering her a bit at Nationals, since her jumps seemed smaller than they have in a long while. They did seem a bit bigger in Moscow (although I am basing that solely on TV and internet coverage).

I don't know, but it could be the camera angle that "made" the jumps look bigger. I haven't been to a competition but unless you are sitting on ice level, you view the skater from above, right? And the camera views the skater from the side. So I would "think" that the camera angle makes a difference...? (could be wrong here)

I never thought Cohen skated with a lot of expression. She's been pretty flat lately IMO. I think she HAS "lightened up" in the FS this past year, which is a good thing (for her) and could lead to more "good things" later on. I think people just are expecting too much too soon. Not surprising given the amount of attention she's gotten.

The different eyewitness accounts of two different people who attended the competition leads me to think that the expression is very subjective. The thing is, has she improved technically or artistically from last year? Over the years?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think the ISU worked "eye twinkle" into the NJS formula for next year. I gave Sasha a 6.25 in this category. ;)
 

millie

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Kathy said:
Her smile looked pasted on and as Dick would say "did not extend to her eyes."

The commentators talk from both sides of their mouth. On one side they say she is not smiling and has a smile pasted on and then they say that she should focus and not be distracted. When the skaters are on the ice trying to concentrate on their next move, I don't think that smiling is the number one thing on their mind. So what if they have a pasted smile on their face, I don't think that the judges gives them marks for pasted on smiles or real smiles. I'm glad that the commentators are not the judges. If she was on the ice with a grin from ear to ear all the time, then they would say that she was to confident and she fell because she wasn't focusing.

Happy skating.
 

vixen62025

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Red Dog said:
The thing is, has she improved technically or artistically from last year? Over the years?

In my opionion, she did not develop technically or artistically last year. Some of this I believe stems from her injury, and some of it from having programs which were not as well choreographed (even Wagner's stripped down version of "Swan Lake" had more choreography than that "Nutcracker" LP last year). Technically and artistically she has dwindled since leaving Tarasova.
 

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Country
United-States
I think Sasha is wonderful and lovely!!! I could watch her skate all day, with or without a smile. I thought she did a great job.

Dee
 

Skate Sandee

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
millie said:
The commentators talk from both sides of their mouth. On one side they say she is not smiling and has a smile pasted on and then they say that she should focus and not be distracted.

One does not preclude the other. A skater can be concentrating very hard, be focused and confident and still be smiling. A furrowed brow or serious countenance is not the ideal. Concentration is not just on the physical but on understanding the emotion of the program. If a skater has to consciously be thinking of smiling, then I would argue that they are not focused or concentrating on delivering the program. Just as we can judge sincerity from our day-to-day dealings with people, I can believe that people who watch a competition live or on TV can intuitively sense when a skater is truly enjoying their moment on the ice or simply putting on a show of enjoyment.

I don't remember Sasha's LP in particular, so I can't comment on her skate specifically.
 

brinababy87

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
I also thought that besides the fall, the program wasn't that bad. I had a sense that she was forcing the smile during the spiral, but at least she didn't give up and frown the rest of the program. What else was she supposed to do?

In terms of improvement, it seems like she's not scratching on her edging so much anymore, but she will have to improve even more to challenge Slutskaya for the OGM.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
millie said:
The commentators talk from both sides of their mouth. On one side they say she is not smiling and has a smile pasted on and then they say that she should focus and not be distracted. When the skaters are on the ice trying to concentrate on their next move, I don't think that smiling is the number one thing on their mind. So what if they have a pasted smile on their face, I don't think that the judges gives them marks for pasted on smiles or real smiles. I'm glad that the commentators are not the judges. If she was on the ice with a grin from ear to ear all the time, then they would say that she was to confident and she fell because she wasn't focusing.

Happy skating.


Yes...If a skater is focused and determined she tends to have that "serious" look. Have you seen the skaters waiting in the wings, ready to take the ice? How many of them do you see smiling? They all look like serial killers back there, lol.

Take someone who is known for emotional appeal. Kwan is an easy example. Yet, you see her "business" face when she is in "deep concentration". She only lightens up once she enters "the zone". The "zone" is the name I give to the time when you are performing and you no longer have to "think through" the process- it just happens naturally, you enjoy the moment, and usually you make no mistakes during this time. And usually you become very calm and relaxed as well, which allows you to smile and be happy. This is what I think happens to Kwan when she breaks out with these "emotional moments" of hers.

It happened to Irina during worlds 05, Arakawa during worlds 04, Hughes during olys 02. But other than this, you usually get the "business face". And (primarily) for this reason, I believe this is why Cohen comes across as flat. When she smiles, you don't feel it, typically because she just made a mistake. It's like you know she can't be happy right now. She just messed it up! I know I wouldn't be happy, no matter what my face looked like.

That said, I do think that she has been fighting an uphill battle and is slowly winning it and is content (if not pleased) with her progress so far. As for the "smile" during her FS, I do think it was "choreographed". You can always put on a smile for the camera.

But she wants to win- and if she wants that performance of a lifetime she'll have to find, and get into, "the zone". Only then will we see a real genuine smile from her.

In my opionion, she did not develop technically or artistically last year. Some of this I believe stems from her injury, and some of it from having programs which were not as well choreographed (even Wagner's stripped down version of "Swan Lake" had more choreography than that "Nutcracker" LP last year). Technically and artistically she has dwindled since leaving Tarasova.

I also would argue this point. Kwan got (and still gets) a lot of flack for stagnating (which would make sense, since she did not used to do this). Cohen, I would say, really hasn't done much more in this regard. I would say with her it's more about self-improvement than improvement in general. I forgot how she skated four years ago but I bet she is totally different now. But it's more of a style thing. She hasn't really been pushing forward in the technical or artistic sense, although her setbacks have arguably prevented or discouraged her from doing so. Instead, she works on trying to make it so that she can complete a routine mistake-free. She has stagnated over the past couple of years, but if the off-season "reports" hold some water, we could see some noticeable improvement this year and (if she stays) next year.

JMO.
 

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
My Opinon

I watched the ESPN repeat also. Sasha is never boring,(mesmerizing would be more like it) always exquisite and in a class by herself. No, she's not flawless, but give me a flawed Sasha over just about anyone else (except Michelle). For her critics all I can say is you can skate like her in your dreams if your lucky.
 

sk8m8

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
not to take the focus off sasha in the middle of a sasha thread...when I saw sasha (and others fall) I immeidately thought of the way the the "air" went out of the program...not that Sasha didn't finish off the skate. It just seems to me that when skaters use BIG music and they miss their tricks, the music can actually overtake the rest of the program and make what small mistakes that are made seem bigger than they are.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems to me that "Bravura music" can be a detriment if you don't pull it all off. Sasha tends to skate to "Big" music and I think when everything isn't spot on, it actually hinders her after any mistake. I also believe that Sasha's superior abilities and form make it look just that much worse when she does make even the slightest of mistakes. Hopefully this year we'll get to see a healthy group of competitors and most placements will be defined by comparing great programs rather than by who makes no/the leas mistakes.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
kyla2 said:
I watched the ESPN repeat also. Sasha is never boring,(mesmerizing would be more like it) always exquisite and in a class by herself. No, she's not flawless, but give me a flawed Sasha over just about anyone else (except Michelle). For her critics all I can say is you can skate like her in your dreams if your lucky.

It's your opinion all right- a lot of other people dig Cohen as well. Otherwise she wouldn't have so many fans.

But, like Kwan, I just don't feel anything from her. She's like a weird (ok, unique may be a better word) looking block of ice- catches (my) eye at first, but just leaves (me) feeling cold. I suppose the "exquisiteness" comes from her flexibility. Yes it's amazing but not mesmerizing (if that makes sense). I don't necessarily call stretching yourself out, fake-smiling, falling, and being conservative "mesmerizing" but that's just me. Obviously this is subjective so other people do think differently.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
sk8m8 said:
not to take the focus off sasha in the middle of a sasha thread...when I saw sasha (and others fall) I immeidately thought of the way the the "air" went out of the program...not that Sasha didn't finish off the skate. It just seems to me that when skaters use BIG music and they miss their tricks, the music can actually overtake the rest of the program and make what small mistakes that are made seem bigger than they are.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems to me that "Bravura music" can be a detriment if you don't pull it all off. Sasha tends to skate to "Big" music and I think when everything isn't spot on, it actually hinders her after any mistake. I also believe that Sasha's superior abilities and form make it look just that much worse when she does make even the slightest of mistakes. Hopefully this year we'll get to see a healthy group of competitors and most placements will be defined by comparing great programs rather than by who makes no/the leas mistakes.

Yes, she does, and can't pull it off (IMO!). She's been told she's talented, etc, etc, and this allows her to coast along. In a way, when this happens, you start to get full of yourself. She hasn't been able to stand out (with the exception of her extreme positions) from everyone else with one big piece. But as I said before this may change.

The ONE time I really saw her let go and actually enjoyed watching her was during her Worlds 05 exhibition program. Now THERE she looked like she was actually having some fun.
 
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