ISU ladies standings | Page 2 | Golden Skate

ISU ladies standings

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
And Poykio finished ahead of Slutskaya in both their qual round (4th vs. 5th) and the final long program (10th vs. 11th); it was her 15th place in the short that held her down overall.
 

TNT2012

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
I think this whole ranking business that the ISU started a few years back is a total joke. I don't believe I have ever heard more than a casual reference to it by any of the commentators or figure skating officials. And I'm pretty certain that most of us don't even take is seriously. Tennis and figure skating are not the same type of sports, unless the ISU plans to revamp figure skating to be like a tournament which skaters facing off one another. Oh wait, they did try that for the Grand Prix Finals for a couple of years...I wonder whatever happen to that format. :rofl:
 
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mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
skatingfan5 said:
If the ISU ranking mattered a great deal to Michelle, I'm sure she would have put those events higher on her priority list. It's obviously higher on the ISU's list than it is on Michelle's the past few years. But she previously competed in the series (two and three events plus final) for quite a few seasons (5 at least).
ITA. She does what suit her FS career as WHOLE......She said in a interview that she is selective for what events she wanted to be in. She did just that for last couple of seasons.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
ISU ranking list is based on skaters´ results from ISU competitions. To get points one needs to compete... So, skaters that compete at ISU events get ranking points from the events they participate in. Skaters that don´t compete, don´t get ranking points from events they are not participating in, LOL. I think the system is simple and fair.

The fact that Kwan has chosen not to participate in GP events and as result does not get as high ranking points from the season as those that are competing in those events and elsewhere, does not make the ranking system wrong or biased.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Jaana said:
The fact that Kwan has chosen not to participate in GP events and as result does not get as high ranking points from the season as those that are competing in those events and elsewhere, does not make the ranking system wrong or biased.

But it's not just Kwan- and I'd be the last person ever to defend her- it's the whole system IMO. Maybe it's OK since they are basing the rankings over several years, but I still can't put much stock in the ratings. Do you really think that Irina is 4th in the world? Suguri 3rd? Arakawa 1st? (THIS YEAR I mean)

If they did it by year, I don't know, maybe it would look better/more accurate. But for now, it's somewhat outdated IMO.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Red Dog said:
Do you really think that Irina is 4th in the world? Suguri 3rd? Arakawa 1st? (THIS YEAR I mean)

According to the ranking system it is right, because it bases on the participations/results from several years. Although Irina is only 4th according to this ISU ranking system, it does not diminish her worth as 2005 World champion at all, in my opinion.
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
It's based pretty heavily on the Grand Prix. Shizuka Arakawa is nice and all, but she finished 8th at the past Worlds.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
nicole_l said:
It's based pretty heavily on the Grand Prix. Shizuka Arakawa is nice and all, but she finished 8th at the past Worlds.

Yes, but Shizuka´s win at 2004 World Championships still counts. Plus of course her participations in other competitions where she got points. The system quite rightfully favours skaters that participate in ISU competitions. Or are there many opinions that perhaps all other international competitions except Europeans/Cup, Worlds and Olympics should cease to exist?
 

tripleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
This rating system is complete nonsense. It isn't worth the time of day. It's just another gimmik, thought up by $peedy, to promote his cash cow, the GP series.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
The bottom line on all this is as I said before Kwan doesn't give a hoot about where she stands in this ranking. I strongly suspect other skaters feel the same way. It's a ranking signifying nothing. It may have something to do in the skating order of the Qualifying Rounds. I'm not sure.

Joe
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
emma said:
She was low (relatively) on the ISU standings last year too and on the podium...these rankings are based on how many ISU sanctioned competitions you are in, and then even those are weighted if I'm not mistaken, and include more than one year.

anyway, it is, of course, impossible to disagree Joe -- I mean she did finish off the podium for the first time in 10 years last season, and thus 'lost' her podium standing, clearly a decline.

True but there is a world of difference to say given the ISU criteria (which means you have to do the GP to get a high standing) and saying Rochette and Poykio are in the top ten and are therefore better skaters than Kwan which is patently untrue, Kwan is a better skater than both of those girls. Onda and Sebestyen are also in the top ten list and i would say Kwan is head, shoulders and half her torso above those two in terms of skating skills. I would also say she's without a doubt a better skater and Suguri (number 3 in the standings) and also Ando but i know that some people might prefer their skating to Kwan's.

Ant

Onda Sebestyen Sugri and Ando
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
soogar said:
She was held up because I think she only landed 3 triples , while Jenny Kirk made 5 triple attempts and landed 3 and finished 17th or something.

3 Triples...that's more than she landed when she got the gold at Europeans last season!!!

Ant (ducking and running!)
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Red Dog said:
But it's not just Kwan- and I'd be the last person ever to defend her- it's the whole system IMO. Maybe it's OK since they are basing the rankings over several years, but I still can't put much stock in the ratings. Do you really think that Irina is 4th in the world? Suguri 3rd? Arakawa 1st? (THIS YEAR I mean)

If they did it by year, I don't know, maybe it would look better/more accurate. But for now, it's somewhat outdated IMO.

The most ridiculous thing about the system is the fact they don't get rid of retired skaters from the list. IIRC Yags was the leader of the field for the entire 2002/2003 and i think will into the 2003/2004 seasons by virtue of winning every major championship and every competition he cometed in the Olympic season last time around - that is ridiculous!

Ant
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
antmanb said:
True but there is a world of difference to say given the ISU criteria (which means you have to do the GP to get a high standing) and saying Rochette and Poykio are in the top ten and are therefore better skaters than Kwan which is patently untrue, Kwan is a better skater than both of those girls. Onda and Sebestyen are also in the top ten list and i would say Kwan is head, shoulders and half her torso above those two in terms of skating skills. I would also say she's without a doubt a better skater and Suguri (number 3 in the standings) and also Ando but i know that some people might prefer their skating to Kwan's.


ITA- and this is why IN MY OPINION this system really doesn't make much sense.

I suppose it does once you factor in the GP and several seasons of skating, but IMO the reason the ranking system doesn't work very well is that not all the top skaters choose to do the GP. Then, no matter how good they are they get knocked down the list over lesser skaters who choose to do the GP. Big problem IMO.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
The ISU rankings are pretty ridiculous, in my opinion.

For example, look at the pairs rankings. Totmianina & Marinin are ranked only 5th. This is astounding when you consider they've won the last 2 Worlds. And now with Shen & Zhao out, they're the prohibitive favorites to win the Olympics. Yet they're ranked only 5th? It makes no sense.

I doubt anyone really pays attention to these rankings. I agree they seem like simply another attempt on Speedy's part to get more press attention or prop up the Grand Prix series.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
antmanb said:
True but there is a world of difference to say given the ISU criteria (which means you have to do the GP to get a high standing) and saying Rochette and Poykio are in the top ten and are therefore better skaters than Kwan which is patently untrue, Kwan is a better skater than both of those girls. Onda and Sebestyen are also in the top ten list and i would say Kwan is head, shoulders and half her torso above those two in terms of skating skills. I would also say she's without a doubt a better skater and Suguri (number 3 in the standings) and also Ando but i know that some people might prefer their skating to Kwan's.

Ant

Onda Sebestyen Sugri and Ando
Yeah....I was just trying to clarify to Joe my understanding of the ranking system (of course Sylvia much smarter just gave us the link to the explanation itself)...I was trying to say that I wouldn't take the ranking to be indicative of a decline per se for Kwan...but in terms of her placements, the world's finish is (albeit it slight and not indicative of a clear trend since she placed 'on the podium' for the short and long, but her qualifier kept her off).

As a poster said earlier, the ranking isn't totally bogus...it tracks who is doing what; not who CAN do what. But I think anyone who knows anything about skating at all would know that kwan on a bad day is a far superior skater than many of those ranked above her; they would also know she hasn't competed much lately compared to those same people. that's all.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Joesitz said:
The bottom line on all this is as I said before Kwan doesn't give a hoot about where she stands in this ranking. I strongly suspect other skaters feel the same way. It's a ranking signifying nothing. It may have something to do in the skating order of the Qualifying Rounds. I'm not sure.

Joe

Kwan doesn't give a hoot because she makes tons of money off shows and is always assured of at least one GP invite (not that she even cares about the GP at this stage in her career). A skater like Jenna McCorkell takes the rankings very seriously because it could give her an opportunity to get into a GP. If there is one good thing about this ranking system, it does give the little skater from a no name federation a chance to do well in smaller events and secure invites to bigger events. Upon further reflection, that's probably why the rankings are set up the way they are. A skater that won a few small events the season prior and then misses this season due to injury still can maintain his/her ranking enough to secure invites to events. Since there aren't that many events in skating anyway, it's probably best to carry over results from the previous years so a skater won't lose ground due to injury. For skaters whose federations don't host events and otherwise have no assurance of guaranteed invites, such a system really helps them out.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
That's a good point that I never really thought about. But once again, IMO the title of the list is a bit misleading.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
soogar said:
Kwan doesn't give a hoot because she makes tons of money off shows and is always assured of at least one GP invite (not that she even cares about the GP at this stage in her career). A skater like Jenna McCorkell takes the rankings very seriously because it could give her an opportunity to get into a GP. If there is one good thing about this ranking system, it does give the little skater from a no name federation a chance to do well in smaller events and secure invites to bigger events. Upon further reflection, that's probably why the rankings are set up the way they are. A skater that won a few small events the season prior and then misses this season due to injury still can maintain his/her ranking enough to secure invites to events. Since there aren't that many events in skating anyway, it's probably best to carry over results from the previous years so a skater won't lose ground due to injury. For skaters whose federations don't host events and otherwise have no assurance of guaranteed invites, such a system really helps them out.

But do skaters get invites to competitions on the basis of the ISU's "World Rankings"? I though that for GPs it was based solely on the results from worlds securing countries certain berths at competitions in addition to the seeded skaters being made to go to particular competitions. After that a country that has done well gets so many berths and then its up to their National body who they send to that competition.

Equally the Senior "B" competitions i thought were doled out to countries and then the National Federation choses they send?

Ant
 
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