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- Jan 6, 2004
I can't wait to see this on tv. It sounds like a good comp for the men so far. Too bad about Eman falling. And gooooo Matt!!! Pull up a couple spots in the free! And may Johnny and Jeff do great too.
Men's Short Program
- Thread starter SailorGalaxia518
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It's still very close among the top seven. Although about 14 points separate Oda in 7th and Buttle in 1st, there's only a 3-4 point difference between each place. Any of the top 4 or 5 could definitely win with a great free skate, those in 4th or 5th especially if those with higher SP scores falter.
After all, we should not forget Sandhu's win under the COP at a GP event after being in either 7th or 9th place (I think--but you know my memory, LOL) after the SP one year--was it last year?--when he skated a great LP and everybody else tanked.
LOVE these close competitions! Though personally I'm rooting for Buttle and Weir. Go artistic and creative skaters! :agree: 
Mathman, are you paying attention?
Rgirl
PS Thanks again, SailorGalaxia, for all the point totals. You rule!
After all, we should not forget Sandhu's win under the COP at a GP event after being in either 7th or 9th place (I think--but you know my memory, LOL) after the SP one year--was it last year?--when he skated a great LP and everybody else tanked.
LOVE these close competitions! Though personally I'm rooting for Buttle and Weir. Go artistic and creative skaters!
:agree: Mathman, are you paying attention?
Rgirl
PS Thanks again, SailorGalaxia, for all the point totals. You rule!
Last edited:
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- Dec 18, 2003
Rgirl said:It's still very close among the top seven. Although about 14 points separate Oda in 7th and Buttle in 1st, there's only a 3-4 point difference between each place. Any of the top 4 or 5 could definitely win with a great free skate, those in 4th or 5th especially if those with higher SP scores falter.
After all, we should not forget Sandhu's win under the COP at a GP event after being in either 7th or 9th place (I think--but you know my memory, LOL) after the SP one year--was it last year?--when he skated a great LP and everybody else tanked.
LOVE these close competitions! Though personally I'm rooting for Buttle and Weir. Go artistic and creative skaters!
Mathman, are you paying attention?
Rgirl
PS Thanks again, SailorGalaxia, for all the point totals. You rule!
You might be recalling the 2003 GPF where E-man beat Plush for the win.
Wish he would have another skate like that here!!!Doggygirl said:You might be recalling the 2003 GPF where E-man beat Plush for the win.
Well...I would love to see Eman skate clean, it would be wonderful. But, even that win was tempered because he Plushy who didn't follow the rules and threw in a jump that got 0 points (basically, skated clean but lost on a technicality). Anyway, Eman has the goods, he just has to put them on the comp ice!!
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
emma said:
To me, that did not taint E-man's win in any way. IMO, it's each competitor's responsibility to know the rules, and present programs accordingly. So....I don't think it's fair to E-man to say "E-man won on a technicality." I think it IS fair to say that "E-man won according to the rules in place at the time of the competition."
I realize my comments are "just a technicality" on some level, but I guess it's always bothered me - that line that E-man "won on a technicality." Why can't we just say he won? That's what he did!! I keep hoping he'll do that again some day.
DG
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
nicole_l said:Can we see Matt on the podium?
Pwease???
Also-- Weir's butt didn't hit the ice, and he got a deduction. Did the rules change?
This is what I found about "definition of a fall" in the ISU rules - page 48 of 107.
Quote rules:
falls -1.0 for every fall (of one or both competitors in Pair Skating); for
interpretation of this Rule, a fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater
resulting in both blades leaving the ice and the skater landing immobile
(event momentarily);
End Quote rules
I don't think Johnny met this definition as I don't think both blades left the ice.
I am interested in hearing more opinions on this from those who know a whole lot more about NJS than I do. (which doesn't take much)
DG
interpretation of this Rule, a fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater
resulting in both blades leaving the ice and the skater landing immobile
(event momentarily);
End Quote rules
I don't think Johnny met this definition as I don't think both blades left the ice.
I am interested in hearing more opinions on this from those who know a whole lot more about NJS than I do. (which doesn't take much)
DG
Buttle looked fantastic - love the new program - he is so the new generation Kurt Browning. A small flaw, obviously, but tons of potential here. This one's a winner. And great to see Jeff looking so good early in the season.
Weir: Have loved him in the past, but felt he was utterly flat today. No spark, nothing. I hope to see the program again later when he actually PERFORMS it rather than thinking and walking his way through it.
Was not as impressed with Shawn Sawyer as I have been in the past, which surprised me. I thought his spins, in particular, looked weak, which, if I'm recalling correctly, always struck me in the past as one of his strengths. Great to see him competing at this level though and getting the experience he needs.
Sandhu - what can you say - a disaster skate. Love this program though and I just can't help myself - I always hope one of these days he's going to get it all together.
Savoie - Liked him. Some nice smooth skating and a very mature presentation.
Weir: Have loved him in the past, but felt he was utterly flat today. No spark, nothing. I hope to see the program again later when he actually PERFORMS it rather than thinking and walking his way through it.
Was not as impressed with Shawn Sawyer as I have been in the past, which surprised me. I thought his spins, in particular, looked weak, which, if I'm recalling correctly, always struck me in the past as one of his strengths. Great to see him competing at this level though and getting the experience he needs.
Sandhu - what can you say - a disaster skate. Love this program though and I just can't help myself - I always hope one of these days he's going to get it all together.
Savoie - Liked him. Some nice smooth skating and a very mature presentation.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think the definition has been revised this year.Doggygirl said:This is what I found about "definition of a fall" in the ISU rules - page 48 of 107.
Quote rules:
falls -1.0 for every fall (of one or both competitors in Pair Skating); for
interpretation of this Rule, a fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater
resulting in both blades leaving the ice and the skater landing immobile
(event momentarily);
End Quote rules
I don't think Johnny met this definition as I don't think both blades left the ice.
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-168609-185827-89562-0-file,00.pdf
(Page 11) "A fall is defined as loss of control by a skater resulting in both blades leaving the ice and/or any part of the body core or both hands or one hand and one knee touches the ice for stabilization."
The key word is the "or" in "and/or." As I recall, the reason for the revision was that sometimes the skater clearly "fell" by any commonsense criterion, but somehow managed to keep one of his blades in contact with the ice, as he is sitting on his butt -- I mean his body core, LOL.
MM
Doggygirl said:To me, that did not taint E-man's win in any way. IMO, it's each competitor's responsibility to know the rules, and present programs accordingly. So....I don't think it's fair to E-man to say "E-man won on a technicality." I think it IS fair to say that "E-man won according to the rules in place at the time of the competition."
I realize my comments are "just a technicality" on some level, but I guess it's always bothered me - that line that E-man "won on a technicality." Why can't we just say he won? That's what he did!! I keep hoping he'll do that again some day.
DG
I hear you and I think he won fair and square. I was just trying to nicely suggest that Eman and winning has not been in the bag despite his extradordinary talent (after all, even that win WAS NOT with two clean programs). Anyway, I wish him nonething but the best, and heck, the better he does the more likely I AM (remember, selfish me) to see him skate!
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Mathman, I must have been looking at last years rules, or maybe the new rule was put on page 11...whatever. Thanks for looking it up though. It makes sense that when a skater "saves" their "rear" by putting both hands on the ice and coming to a full stop in the program that would be considered a fall.
I'm still curious about SA where Joubert had a deduction for a fall, but none of his jumps on the score sheet said -3 GOE, which I thought was automatic with a fall. I hope if I keep nagging with this question........
Emma, I'm right there with you hoping to see some great performances from E-man in the future. I enjoy watching his skating even when he misses most or all of the jumps. I hope he doesn't go down in the history books as the most wasted talent ever. There is still time for success for him!
DG
Thanks for looking it up though. It makes sense that when a skater "saves" their "rear" by putting both hands on the ice and coming to a full stop in the program that would be considered a fall.I'm still curious about SA where Joubert had a deduction for a fall, but none of his jumps on the score sheet said -3 GOE, which I thought was automatic with a fall. I hope if I keep nagging with this question........
Emma, I'm right there with you hoping to see some great performances from E-man in the future. I enjoy watching his skating even when he misses most or all of the jumps. I hope he doesn't go down in the history books as the most wasted talent ever. There is still time for success for him!
DG
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Here is the complete url, if you want to keep it on file.Doggygirl said:
h**p://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-168609-185827-89562-0-file,00.pdf
This is a separate document from the long pdf file titled 2004/2005 Rules on the ISU site (which is actually last year's rules, despite the title). This new document contains all of the rule changes between the 2004 season and 2005. It is the only place where the point values for level 4 spins and steps are given, and other claifications (for instance about Bielmann spins).
Hockeyfan posted it a while back.
MM
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:
Yep. I remember that "change" document with the other stuff you referenced. I'm kind of surprised they haven't published a new document on the web incorporating the changes into a "current" rules document. It's still helpful to have a separate one outlining the changes though. I miss the PDF's they published last year where there were separate (short!) documents containing the point values for elements, the rules for GOE, the rules for PCS, etc.
Thanks my NJS pal!
DG
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