Judging scandal in Torino?

Mathman said:

I don't think it's that cut and dried. I think the casual audience can relate to the concept that skater A did a bunch of really hard stuff and fell a time or two, while skater B just skated around in circles for a while -- no falls -- and called it a day.

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Maybe, but the commentators would have to explain that to the viewers at large. I'm not so sure the average non-skating fan looks at all the details of the program enough to really tell whether a program with faults should win over one without any mistakes. (I certainly know I didn't.) After all, why would the audience boo marks at a competition? Who the people at large like isn't necessarily who wins. The crowd favorite doesn't always win.

I think there would have to be an OBVIOUS difference (like the clean skate of a junior skater vs. the not-so-good one by a performer like Kwan).

Irina's ''scandal'' (or disapointment, call it as you wish) was undercovered by the media because of S&P doublegold, MK losing it and Hugues bouncing it. I will not go thru that again because I just realized it was almost 4 years ago.

To me, the season is still young and so groovin'! Althought top skaters like Weir, MK, S&Z and so on are injured, I appreciate the determination from everyone and I never read that much online articles about figure skating, which can only be good for the sport even if COP is an old opinionated b****.

When I'm the bus thinking about:

-Sokolova's smile
-Cziny's wins, spirals and posture
-Irina's stucking to a foot over her head even if a lot of people should put one in their mouth
-Liashenko's West side story from a East voidy skater
-Rochette skating to old Madonna when the real one is having the greatest comeback of her life
-Li skating (and giving his heart out) to music that we thought Weir would have skate to
-Sandhu's tango de la macho and kicking a** in a drum based freeskate
-Evan's getting it
-Silvia Fontana used to kick butt at a real quick half-bielmann, can't wait
-Buttle sticking to what he does best: introspective yet crowd getting and pleasing
-Weiss going back to classical roots after meeting classical rock
-Delshoes going for the wildest (IMO) theme
-Seeing realistic, full of respect and honest answers from Tanith and Ben regardless of them probably not going
-Petrova and Tikhonov having the most fun out there cuz they've already been

Fudge... I could go like this all day! lol

Regardless of any scandal, you can't beat the rush of an olympic season. Gosh, as I'm writing this... a lot is going in my head. I can only imagine in a skater's mind...

Mathman said:

Hi Lee. I agree with everything in your post except the part about blaming Stapleford and Pfenning for not sweeping what they knew under the rug. Truth will out, Speedy notwithstanding.

MM

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I didn't say them coming out with what they did was a 'bad' thing, but if they hadn't come out with it, it would have just gone down as another close competition. That's all...

I don't understand why skating officials should not sweep things under the rug. Allowing culprits to get away with wrong doing is just oh so massochistic.

The sermon like phrase 'truth will win out' just might take 50 years and by then who cares?

Joe

Joesitz said:

Look at the bright side: We know hanky panky has existed. We know the heartbreaker it is. We know it will put fear in the minds of future colluders because it will kill the sport. In effect, this may be the end of the cooperative cheats.
Joe

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I fail to see how SLC in any way put an end to colluders, who are obviously not worried about killing the sport, simply about their own power games and federation agendas within the ISU. Anyone who has watched skating over the past two seasons has seen some questionable results. And after 3 years, the judges should not have the excuse of "not being comfortable" with the new system and the PCS scoring, and yet it is clear to anyone with eyes that the PCS scores are not being used correctly. In fact, part of the blame probably lies at the feet of the ISU, who review the scores and will punish a judge for being out of line with the other judges (no matter if that judges scores actually make sense or not.) So the judges simply seem to huddle in a small, safe range for skaters based on their reputation and/or political alliance.

As much as the ISU would loathe a CoP meltdown in Torino, I think it is possible. (However, I just don't think it's going to happen with the ladies.)

I Have a strong feeling there will be no hanky panky at this Oly. The future of figure skating is at stake.

JOe

vixen62025 said:

In fact, part of the blame probably lies at the feet of the ISU, who review the scores and will punish a judge for being out of line with the other judges (no matter if that judges scores actually make sense or not.) So the judges simply seem to huddle in a small, safe range for skaters based on their reputation and/or political alliance.

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Actually, the ISU rules makes provision for this. There is an Officials' Assessment Committee that reviews all "anomalies" (marks given by a particular judge that fall outside a certain fairly generous "corridore" about the mean of the panel as a whole.)

If the OAC thinks that the panel as a whole is all wet, they can expand the corridore appropriately. In other words, the OAC can agree with the lone judge and blame the whole panel.

Also, the accused judge can defend his/her marks, bringing in evidence from videotapes, etc.

If the OAC does decide the that out-of-line judge or judges made errors in applying the NJS criteria for marks, or if they detect evidence of bias, then the miscreant judge is given as "assessment" (bad mark).

A few bad marks, depending on their severity, results in demotion or suspension.

Here are the ISU rules about this:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-168605-185823-91843-0-file,00.pdf

Well, it looks good on paper, anyway.

Mathman

Joe, I'm not so sure that anyone's future is at stake in Torino. I think if some sort of funny business occurs the majority of television viewers will just shrug and say, "Well, that's figure skating -- business as usual -- see you in four years."

Mathman - You are absolutely correct but it will take a further toll of losing casual fans.

I don't think any federation wants that, least of all the russian federation which has 4 solid golds in the making without any hanky panky.

The only close race would be Pairs and only if S&Z skate and up to form.

Sasha could be a threat but she won't make it without the 3x3s.

The Dance and Men's are Russia's to lose and they won't.

JMO - Joe

If anyone actually believes that the ISU will discipline judges for deviant scoring and we will hear about it there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

euterpe said:

If anyone actually believes that the ISU will discipline judges for deviant scoring and we will hear about it there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

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True, true, true. I'll sell some goldmine stock.

Joe