Irina Slutskaya will win in Torino | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Irina Slutskaya will win in Torino

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
O.k. Enough....

First, I am a nurse who has taken steroids for asthma, and high doses at that. You cannot talk about ananbolic and corticosteroids in the same breath. They are different. But you can also not make generalizations about corticosteroids and their effect on any one individual. I had a friend who took fairly high doses for M.S. and they gave her a buzz and high you wouldn't believe. These are real possible side effects from steroids (and not just anectdotal). So if a poster here speculates that they might give her energy, there is a basis in fact for saying that. The poster is not unkowledgable. However, when I took them, they made me feel awful to the point I had to stop taking them and try different medication. They can make you feel hyper/jittery, confused, irritable, and even psychotic (steroid psychoses) if you are on them long enough at high enough doses. They do make you retain fluid. Some people take them without noticeable effects. The long term side effects are not pretty, but we are not talking about long term side effects. I have no idea how they make Irina feel or when she is actually taking them. I suspect she is on the lowest possible maintenance dose, which would be wise medicine. Personally, I think she is skating so well because she has slimmed down; that alone will give you energy. But the last thing I am going to say is how it actually makes her feel, because like everyone here, I just don't know. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't accuse someone of being mean for speculating about the possible effects (especially known effects) of a drug.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Toni, Rgirl - I'm not complaining about Post eligible show skating. I do indeed see the further blossoming of S&P and yes, Wylie too.

I'm complaining about apre eligible competitions. I see no point in watching skaters get dressed up in some sort of drag and use props to amuse me and at the same time expect a judge (whom I'm sure couldn't care less) actually score these antics less than 9,7 out of 10. Everyone knows the winner before the contest starts. I believe screaming young fans will like this sort of thing.

Can you honestly say that the Gender Competitions and the Country Competitions are real teams? and without looking which country won in 1989? Did the boys beat the girls in 1987? Are you waiting with baited breath for this years gender and country competitions?

I did enjoy one star wars where S&P skated against B&S and there were beautiful exhibition pieces by both . I couldn't care less who won. It was first class entertainment by first class skaters.

I know, I know, I'm a cultural snob.

Joe
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
:laugh: that there is also a thread at FSU gracefully titled, "Congratulations Irina Slutskaya, 2006 Olympic Gold Medallist". We're BOTH talking about it :laugh:
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
gezando said:
There are people here at GS who accuse Michelle of bribing her orthopod to lie about her injury. IMO the ones who are accusing MK of lying are just simply group 2 mean spirited.

Or group 3: Looked at Michelle's past withdrawals/refusals from GP events ,and Speedy's mandate that a skater could only skip GP with an injury note, and figured that she just didn't want to skate and had a doctor sign off.

Sorry, but past behavior does influence how people view present behavior. In criminal cases, most defendants with prior criminal records don't take the stand because if they testify, their priors can be brought up. Most people tend to think that someone with a prior record is capable of committing the crime they are on trial for.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think soogar's point is legit, and it's not unreasonable or mean-spirited IMO for that to be the primary reason behind suspicion. I'd say both groups 2 and 3 are out there. JMO.
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
soogar said:
Or group 3: Looked at Michelle's past withdrawals/refusals from GP events ,and Speedy's mandate that a skater could only skip GP with an injury note, and figured that she just didn't want to skate and had a doctor sign off.

And in Michelle case, her orthopod is the USFSA team doctor, who has examined her and made a medical diagnosis, it is not just signing off. BTW, her doctor is treating other USA skaters also. So IMO group 3 are a combination of group 1 and 2, i.e. both ignorant and mean spirited

In criminal cases defendants with prior criminal records don't take the stand because if they testify, their priors can be brought up. Most people tend to think that someone with a prior record is capable of committing the crime they are on trial for.

:rofl: then there are group 4, who are criminalizing skaters, give me a break for injuries (which happens to athletes all the time). Actually even criminals are innocent until proven guilty, so the group 4 are not giving the skaters the same courteousy that criminals receive. Group 4 are concluding skaters are criminal without doing a physical exam, running diagnositic tests, IMO group 4 are practicing medicine without a license.
 
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soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
gezando said:
:rofl: then there are group 4, who are criminalizing skaters, give me a break for injuries (which happens to athletes all the time). Actually even criminals are innocent until proven guilty, so the group 4 are not giving the skaters the same courteousy that criminals receive. Group 4 are concluding skaters are criminal without doing a physical exam, running diagnositic tests, IMO group 4 are practicing medicine without a license.


:sheesh:
Please, people look at past actions all the time to determine motives.
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
kyla2 said:
You cannot talk about ananbolic and corticosteroids in the same breath. They are different.

that is the point others have been making in this threaad

But you can also not make generalizations about corticosteroids and their effect on any one individual.

I don't think people are making generalization about the SE of corticosteroids on any one individual . BTW, techniclally corticosteroids include mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids. I think you meant glucocorticoids (acts on the cortisol receptors) when you are talking about "steroids" for asthma, and corticosteroid for MS.

I had a friend who took fairly high doses for M.S. and they gave her a buzz and high you wouldn't believe. These are real possible side effects from steroids (and not just anectdotal).

Does your friend achieve higher productivity in his / her work with the buzz, is your friend able to focus and concentrate better mentally with the buzz? Is there increase in physical well being and energy associated with your friend's buzz that allow him or her to train for a 15K run? If not, then it is just a high / buzz with unfocus energy, approaching irritability, not exactly a welcome side effect. Therefore IMO it is unreasonable to extrapolate that and apply to Irina and claim that she achieves unfair advantage in terms of skating performance by taking a systemic steroid for her vasculitis and or asthma

However, when I took them, they made me feel awful to the point I had to stop taking them and try different medication.
Since systemic glucocorticoids use (especially long term) -> adverse effects on all systems of the body, from dermatological, bones, to brain etc I am glad to hear that you have an alternative
 
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gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
soogar said:
:sheesh:
Please, people look at past actions all the time to determine motives.

Well, unless the group 4 people can read a skater's mind they can't make a conclusion about motive
 
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gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Red Dog said:
I think soogar's point is legit, and it's not unreasonable or mean-spirited IMO for that to be the primary reason behind suspicion. I'd say both groups 2 and 3 are out there. JMO.

Sure there are plenty of suspicious people out there, and some of them spin alien abduction theories too:rofl:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
soogar said:
Or group 3: Looked at Michelle's past withdrawals/refusals from GP events ,and Speedy's mandate that a skater could only skip GP with an injury note, and figured that she just didn't want to skate and had a doctor sign off.

Sorry, but past behavior does influence how people view present behavior. In criminal cases, most defendants with prior criminal records don't take the stand because if they testify, their priors can be brought up. Most people tend to think that someone with a prior record is capable of committing the crime they are on trial for.
Only a nonKwan can dream up this, and anyone who agrees with it.

Kwan's back has been a problem for years and has caused her to cut back on competitions. She's not the type of lady to announce to the world that she has an injured hip in a journal or press release or have some claque printing the ailing cartileges or other health item reminders in skating forums.

She's a very private lady and a class act (not just on skates).

Joe
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Joesitz said:
I did enjoy one star wars where S&P skated against B&S and there were beautiful exhibition pieces by both . I couldn't care less who won. It was first class entertainment by first class skaters.
I think the pseudo-competitive aspect of Star Wars and the like is intended to be part of the entertainment, not anything anywhere near significant in terms of who wins.

Remember, Star Wars began as an opportunity (a) for the producers to make big bucks and (b) to allow Nancy Kerrigan to beat Oksana Baiul in a "competition" and make Nancy's US fans happy. Indeed, surprise, surprise, Nancy won.

I know, I know, I'm a cultural snob.
And that's why we love you, Joe.:love:

Rgirl:)
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
gezando said:
Well, unless the group 4 people can read a skater's mind they can't make a conclusion about motive

Any more than a jury can read a defendant's mind but we don't hesitate to take away a person's freedom...
 

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Yes, but the defendant as a matter of law is supposed to be given the benefit of the doubt, whereas on skating boards, the benefit of the doubt is not given to any skater the poster happens to dislike (although the same poster(s) will be quick enough to condemn other posters who are not giving the benefit of the doubt to skaters the original poster likes). Michelle has the same right to the benefit of the doubt that Irina has.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think in most cases MK IS given the benefit of the doubt. But certain fans try to hammer it in to those who wish NOT to give MK the "benefit of the doubt". That's the way I see it.
 

michaelfsfan

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
MKbeauty said:
You know, I've never really understood all the "Michelle skated a flawed SP" comments. She slipped slightly on the landing of her flip, but otherwise, it was a clean jump with a very minor deduction. And IMO, Michelle's Rach program is one of the most well-choreographed SP's of all time, and she performed it beautifully. They both skated well, it was a close call - a 5/4 split which happened to end in Michelle's favor.

Not to be pedantic or anything, but the Ladies SP results in SLC was not as close as some would have wanted it to be. According to the judging protocols, Michelle received 5 first place ordinals and 4 second place ordinals. Irina, on the other hand, received 4 first place ordinals, 2 second place ordinals and 3 third place ordinals, ie there were 3 judges in the panel who put Sasha ahead of Irina.
 

nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
michaelfsfan said:
Not to be pedantic or anything, but the Ladies SP results in SLC was not as close as some would have wanted it to be. According to the judging protocols, Michelle received 5 first place ordinals and 4 second place ordinals. Irina, on the other hand, received 4 first place ordinals, 2 second place ordinals and 3 third place ordinals, ie there were 3 judges in the panel who put Sasha ahead of Irina.

That's an excellent point michaelsfan ... I had forgotten that.

And for the record ... after wvgal's assertion that Irina had a "slight bend at the waist" on her 3flip in SLC ... and I claimed it was more like a head banger move ... I went back and watched it last night to make sure I was remembering it correctly. Now, I know I am a Kwan fan, and I'm sure that disqualifies me in some people's views on whether or not I can give an unbiased view of things ... but that flip was severely flawed in Irina's lurching downward, almost touching the ice. If "head banger" seems like an incorrect description for it, maybe we could call it an illusion spin ... sort of like she did in her SP at '05 Worlds.
In any case, maybe someone who knows how to do these things, would be able to post a video here of that jump, and let everyone decide for themselves.
 
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