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Great Coverage!!!!

Lindemann needs to get better consistent otherwise don't expect a good result in Torino

Weir is just a master of artistry.......I just hope he gets that quad in before Torino

Plushenko............................................................................................................................................................................................... No comment

Lambiel.....needs to get that triple axel consistent. Ironically, he can land the quad with ease. He IS the best shout at foiling Plushenko's plans for Olympic Gold at this point

I was disappointed with Plushenko's program, though not with the performance. His jumps were spectacular (except the second 3A) but I was expecting to see some major changes to the footwork. What I saw was almost same as last year's program. That will not help him against the likes of Buttle, Lambiel, Weir, and even Joubert. The COP really takes away the quad advantage skaters used to have.

Weir skated well but I have to admit that I don't absolutely LOVE this year's LP the way I loved Otonal last year. I think this music does not really suit his style. Should he go back to Otonal for the Olys?

Lambiel is very capable of beating Plushenko if he lands all his jumps. So are Sandhu, Buttle, and Joubert. I am not so sure about Johnny at this point.

Vash

After watching Plush's SP which was, imo, his best skate ever, I was so disappointed in the LP.

First of all whenever he used the Godfather theme, he became so much slower. He fumbled a few tricks at the slower speed. He only did two stop and poses that I counted and the reaction, even from the Russian crowd was not like he is used to. His sit spins are dreadful. Some camels are looking better but in general his spins are not the greatest for me. The footwork was typical but nothing new. The whole package is there albeit with lackluster spins, but the skate was definitely not his best. Depending on how the judges view him for gold in Torino, even with faults remain to be seen. The judges here, imo, overmarked his LP. I kind of think he was not happy with his skate and I kind of think he will do something about it.

Lambiel with a much much better program desperately needs to clean it up some. I think the judges are going to be much harsher in scoring him if he does not hit that 3A.
What I do like is his constant movement. Not stopping to pose and in general have the flow that makes skating different from dance. His clear cut spins - Wow and not Wow. The clever footwork and keeping in the character of the music.

Weir - much of the pluses I said about Stephane goes for Johnny as well. His incredible flow over the ice is second to none. I was glad to see him back in form.

Joe

Plush's "Godfather" definitely not his best, despite all Martone's efforts, but I still think he's the shark to beat. ITA, Joe, that is SP is a killer, but "Godfather" could be shot down.

After NHK I'm going to have to compare the men's score sheets and see who, if anybody, is getting anywhere near Plush.

But, awwwww, to see Plush all flooded with oxytocin and just-can't-help-himself in love with his wife. The throwing kisses to her off his gold wedding ring, you just don't see that very often in figure skating.

Rgirl

I was looking forward to Evgeni's new program, only to find out it was last year's LP and I was a little disappointed in that. :sheesh: :sheesh:

I was also happy to see Johnny back in form. It's such a pleasure to watch him. As far as his LP is concerned I agree that I don't like this program as much as I like Otonal. It's too bad that Otonal wasn't his Olympic program.

Lambiel is great, his spins have to be the best.

Last night I was thinking this...if you had Evgeni jumping technique, Lambiel spins and Johnny's artistry....who could beat you??? :agree: I guess why I was thinking this is that I think Evgeni is beatable. His spins are just OK, if Lambiel Or Sandu have the skate of their life during the Olympics........they could beat Evgeni. If Johnny had a consistent quad, I would put him with Lambiel and Sandu.

Dee

I agree with those who said Plushenkos' "Godfather" was a lackluster. It was overtly frontloaded, he was slower than usual and was lacking energy throughout the program. He still had the command. He did comment on how unhappy he was because he was tired and sleepy on the ice but was still happy he won. Another quote, after the press conference:

Q: On press conferences you complained of being tired. If in between the SP and FS there is a day free, would you feel better?

EP: I think so, yes. I did not train for four months after surgery. And I did not compete in a serious level. And because of that my feelings were shown on Friday when I went to the ice. The first start, was personal, and even with the world record I got excellent responses. I went home, had dinner and it was three AM and I could not fall asleep! I wanted to competed, fight, hear the audience! In the morning, after training, I went home and slept; but I did not manage to restore myself. Therefore, I was prepared to make some mistakes in the free program.

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This may seem absurd but perhaps he planned his program to be frontloaded, to get all the hard jumps out of the way before he would tire too much and make mistakes? It's not me trying to make any excuses for him, but I'm just seriously wondering if there could be a shred of truth to this? He usually receive the highest GOEs on his jumps (and where he scores most of his points). If you screw up your jumps it's all over, whereas a few sloppy spins wouldn't hurt as much, point-wise. Or am I completely off here? Probably.

Anyway, I thought "Tosca" was fantastic and loved it from start to finish.

Dee4707 said:

I was looking forward to Evgeni's new program, only to find out it was last year's LP and I was a little disappointed in that. :sheesh: :sheesh:

I was also happy to see Johnny back in form. It's such a pleasure to watch him. As far as his LP is concerned I agree that I don't like this program as much as I like Otonal. It's too bad that Otonal wasn't his Olympic program.

Lambiel is great, his spins have to be the best.

Last night I was thinking this...if you had Evgeni jumping technique, Lambiel spins and Johnny's artistry....who could beat you??? :agree: I guess why I was thinking this is that I think Evgeni is beatable. His spins are just OK, if Lambiel Or Sandu have the skate of their life during the Olympics........they could beat Evgeni. If Johnny had a consistent quad, I would put him with Lambiel and Sandu.

Dee

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IS plushy doing his usual thing of changing his program midseason? That seems like a pretty risky strategy in an Olympic year.

I'm glad to loko at the protocols and see that johnny is now using all 8 of his jumping passes.

Ant

Vitacus said:

I agree with those who said Plushenkos' "Godfather" was a lackluster. It was overtly frontloaded, he was slower than usual and was lacking energy throughout the program. He still had the command. He did comment on how unhappy he was because he was tired and sleepy on the ice but was still happy he won. Another quote, after the press conference:



This may seem absurd but perhaps he planned his program to be frontloaded, to get all the hard jumps out of the way before he would tire too much and make mistakes? It's not me trying to make any excuses for him, but I'm just seriously wondering if there could be a shred of truth to this? He usually receive the highest GOEs on his jumps (and where he scores most of his points). If you screw up your jumps it's all over, whereas a few sloppy spins wouldn't hurt as much, point-wise. Or am I completely off here? Probably.

Anyway, I thought "Tosca" was fantastic and loved it from start to finish.

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I think Plushenko has usually front loaded his programs and leaves the spins to the end. Given the penalties for falling and/or undrrotating jumps with the CoP i think its a strategy that is well worth the pay off - if he does all of his jumps by the two minute mark and he's getting +1s and +2s for GOEs then its definitely worth it rather than putting some later in teh program and gettni only 0s or even some negative GOEs.

Ant

antmanb said:

I think Plushenko has usually front loaded his programs and leaves the spins to the end. Given the penalties for falling and/or undrrotating jumps with the CoP i think its a strategy that is well worth the pay off - if he does all of his jumps by the two minute mark and he's getting +1s and +2s for GOEs then its definitely worth it rather than putting some later in teh program and gettni only 0s or even some negative GOEs.

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It's a much greater risk to put the jumps later in the program, especially if you're not 100% in shape. He usually has at least 2 jumps after the two minute mark but not at CoR and I definitely believe it's a strategy, and a clever one.

He was the rightful winner though, there's no denying that, even with a lackluster performance.

Vash01 said:

I was disappointed with Plushenko's program, though not with the performance. His jumps were spectacular (except the second 3A) but I was expecting to see some major changes to the footwork. What I saw was almost same as last year's program. That will not help him against the likes of Buttle, Lambiel, Weir, and even Joubert. The COP really takes away the quad advantage skaters used to have.

Weir skated well but I have to admit that I don't absolutely LOVE this year's LP the way I loved Otonal last year. I think this music does not really suit his style. Should he go back to Otonal for the Olys?

Lambiel is very capable of beating Plushenko if he lands all his jumps. So are Sandhu, Buttle, and Joubert. I am not so sure about Johnny at this point.

Vash

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This was Plushy's first performance of his FS this year, and he admitted that it wasn't what he was looking for. But he still outscored all the other men in the FS.

Quite frankly, I don't think he has anything to worry about from Lambiel, Sandhu, Buttle and Joubert, or even Weir with a quad.

Lambiel seems to be incapable of landing a 3A and 3A combo. Unless he comes up with a second quad (4S) out of the blue, he is severely handicapped point-wise. Lambiel has also had inconsistency with the 3Z. The 4T is the only jump he can rely on, and it is not enough. He couldn't even land the 4T combination cleanly at CoR and Plushy's flawed FS beat Lambiel's FS by over 7 points.

Buttle's FSs this season have been trainwrecks. He can't land the quad OR a clean 3A. He can't hope to beat an 87-point SP, and that's the only way he's been able to medal this season: by getting far enough ahead in the SP. He won't get that against Plushy, and a flawed Plushy FS will beat Buttle's flawed FS by a mile. Buttle hasn't gotten over 140 for any of his FSs, ever. Plushy got nearly 155 for a not-so-good FS at CoR.

As long as Sandhu cannot complete a clean SP, he is at Plushy's mercy. He cannot get away with scoring 60-65 in the SP and hope to make it up in the FS when his FSs have been scoring between 135-145. Do the math.

Joubert has had no reliable jumps so far this season and still does not seem to have his act together. He was able to beat Plushy two years ago when Plushy was injured, but Plushy is not injured now.

Weir has never beaten Plushy. He still hasn't quite hit his stride competitively, and he needs a quad to compete at the very top level. He has the potential to give Plushy a run for his money in the future, but he's still in 'build' mode. His performance at CoR wasn't his best, but with his ankle still not 100%, he was very good, and he was pleased with his performance (probably the most important thing of all). When not injured, Weir is the most consistent jumper of all the men and that will stand him in good stead (as Dick Button is wont to say) as the year goes on.

So sorry, but CoR proved Plushy is in very good shape vis a vis his competitors. In his own words, he will only get better with each competition.

euterpe said:

Lambiel seems to be incapable of landing a 3A and 3A combo. Unless he comes up with a second quad (4S) out of the blue, he is severely handicapped point-wise. Lambiel has also had inconsistency with the 3Z. The 4A is the only jump he can rely on, and it is not enough. He couldn't even land the 4A combination cleanly at CoR and Plushy's flawed FS beat Lambiel's FS by over 7 points.

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I presume this is a typo and you mean quad toe, cos quad Axel would be pretty from Lambiel...or any skater for that matter!

Ant

antmanb said:

I presume this is a typo and you mean quad toe, cos quad Axel would be pretty from Lambiel...or any skater for that matter!

Ant

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Yes, I meant 4T.

Vitacus said:

He was the rightful winner though, there's no denying that, even with a lackluster performance.

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No disagreement, but the scores were way to high. Lambiel and Johnny should have been closer. JMO

Joe

Plushenko received + GOE on each of his spins (.4, .5, .1, .8) and his footwork sequence (.8, .7). Despite GOE of -2 on the 2nd 3A, and -.2 for the 3Lz/2T and the 3F, he still scored over 6 points above base. It's still early in the competitive season for him, and he had one downgrade (3/2) combo and missed the 3A combo. Despite having eight jump elements in his first eight elements -- and getting no credit for the extra jump (3S) he put in as #11, his choreography/composition score was 8.2.

At Worlds last year, in the quali round, while ailing, his lightweight (for him) version of the LP was on par with a brilliant performance by Lambiel.

If he skates technically like he did at CoR with a 4/3 and 2-3/3's but with a couple of bobbles, with a little more energy, which is expected by Torino when his stamina is higher, I don't see how anyone -- Lambiel, Sandhu, Buttle, Weir included -- will beat him, even if they land everything they're capable of.

antmanb said:

IS plushy doing his usual thing of changing his program midseason? That seems like a pretty risky strategy in an Olympic year.

I'm glad to loko at the protocols and see that johnny is now using all 8 of his jumping passes.

Ant

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No, Plushenko has already said that he will use Godfather in the Olympics

Ximena said:

No, Plushenko has already said that he will use Godfather in the Olympics

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That is a shame - is it the same music he used in the Gala in Torino in September?

Ant

hockeyfan228 said:

If he skates technically like he did at CoR with a 4/3 and 2-3/3's but with a couple of bobbles, with a little more energy, which is expected by Torino when his stamina is higher, I don't see how anyone -- Lambiel, Sandhu, Buttle, Weir included -- will beat him, even if they land everything they're capable of.

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Can't disagree with his winning but I do contest the excessive PCS scores for the slow calculating skate he did at COR. If he peps that up, I will accept the higher PCS scores although he is not my favorite stylist.

Joe