Away with Quads!!

SkateFan4Life · Dec 15, 2005

If I could write the rules, I would immediately place a ban on all quad jumps. The most difficult jumps, therefore, would be triple axels.

Haven't you all seen the proliferation of serious injuries among the men during the past decade or so - thanks in large part to their continuous practice of quad jumps. All of that pounding, hard landings, and falls have resulted in many serious muscle, joint, and skeletal injuries. Timothy Goebel, Johnny Weir, Michael Weiss, Takesi Honda, Emanuel Sandhu, Alexi Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, etc. These guys have all missed competitions and months of practice due to their skating-induced injuries.

Timothy Goebel's career has risen and fallen, IMHO. He will never be the skater who landed three quads at Skate America and who won two World silver medals and an Olympic bronze medal. Michael Weiss has been injured so many times - how long can he take the physical punishment?

If you look back at the era preceding the elimination of school figures - the champions of that era - Scott Hamilton, Brian Orser, Brian Boitano, etc. - competed at numerous Worlds and Olympics, injury-free. I recall that Viktor Petrenko was injured when he competed at the 1989 Worlds, and that it was considered quite unusual for a top skater to be injured. Today, it's almost expected that that men will suffer at least one major injury in their pursuit of the quad jump.

Of course, some of the women overdo it, too. Midori Ito had serious ankle and foot injures, as the result of landing so many triple axels.

Where will it all end? By the time Goebel and his peers reach the age of 40, they'll be lucky if they can still walk, let along skate.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, ALREADY!!!!!

Tonichelle · Dec 16, 2005

wasn't there worries that the 3A would do exactly teh same thing? There were quite a few injuries in teh 80s blamed on that jump...

Kurt Browning hit them in competition occasionally... and then hit them several times throughout his pro career... his body took a pounding, but said had he practiced them more consistently the pain wouldn't have been there...

there will always be injury in sport... as they say "if it doesn't hurt, you're not doing it right..."

I think one of the reasons we're seeing the injuries so young is they aren't waiting to learn all of these moves before they're done growing...

slutskayafan21 · Dec 16, 2005

I agree SkateFan4Life, but do feel I need to address one skater you mentioned. Timothy Goebel never would have been a two-time World medalist or an Olympic medalist, if the quad was not as big a part of the sport as it was to begin with. Thus I would not consider him a victim of the quad trend in any way, shape, or form, even if it has caused injury and his abilities to deteriorate as he nears the end of his career. I dont know if you were insinuating he was a victim of the quad trend or not, but all I can say is he was one of the biggest beneficiaries of it. With the quads less an integral part of the sport he would never have accomplished what he did, as much as he developed his artistry and other parts of his skating to reach the accomplishments he did in 2002 and 2003, I will give him credit for that, they still would not have been even close to enough without his quad advantage up against the likes of Yagudin, Plushenko, Honda, Abt, Eldredge, among others to achieve the things he did those 2 years.

iluvtodd · Dec 16, 2005

I wouldn't shed a tear if skaters stopped going for the quads. Enough with the injuries already!

Mafke · Dec 16, 2005

Add me to the list of those who think the quad is overrated as a marker of excellence and who would be happy to never see a skater try one again.

Spirit · Dec 16, 2005

I agree, if technology remains current.

But I keep waiting for skaters to give hinged boot technology a try, en masse. That one piece of technology sounds like it could save thousands of dollars and whole careers. I'm really baffled as to why skaters haven't just jumped all over that. But then, my career is process improvement, so that's how I think, and I know others don't and that change is always slow due to human nature.

If the hinged boot can save bodies while still allowing quads, then the sky should be the limit.

Ptichka · Dec 16, 2005

Spirit, ITA.

sk8er1964 · Dec 16, 2005

Spirit said:
I agree, if technology remains current.

But I keep waiting for skaters to give hinged boot technology a try, en masse. That one piece of technology sounds like it could save thousands of dollars and whole careers. I'm really baffled as to why skaters haven't just jumped all over that. But then, my career is process improvement, so that's how I think, and I know others don't and that change is always slow due to human nature.

If the hinged boot can save bodies while still allowing quads, then the sky should be the limit.

Because they're ugly. Because they might make things worse instead of better, so let others try it first. Because "my" bootmaker doesn't make them, so I'll wait until he does. Etc etc etc

NJSk8Fan · Dec 16, 2005

I'll echo Gail/Iluvtodd's statement....I would NOT shed a tear if quads were eliminated!

It seems obvious to me the higher the expectation on jumps goes, the more injuries are occurring. Look at Tara and her triple loop/triple loop and having a hip surgery at what, the tender age of 17 was it?

Give me a beautiful entrance into a perfect double or triple with a beautiful landing and run-out over a quad any day!

attyfan · Dec 16, 2005

Spirit said:
I agree, if technology remains current.

But I keep waiting for skaters to give hinged boot technology a try, en masse. That one piece of technology sounds like it could save thousands of dollars and whole careers. I'm really baffled as to why skaters haven't just jumped all over that. But then, my career is process improvement, so that's how I think, and I know others don't and that change is always slow due to human nature.

If the hinged boot can save bodies while still allowing quads, then the sky should be the limit.

I am kind of surprised that more of the younger, newer faces on the scene aren't using them, but I would think the issue might be quite different for the skaters who have been around for a while. I always thought that a lot of the injuries are due to incessant pounding over the years -- so switching to the new boots wouldn't be enough for Tim (or Plushy or .....) to compensate for the pounding that their bodies have taken for the past [however many] years before the new boots were developed.

swannanoa54 · Dec 16, 2005

I am for doing away with quads. But every time I said something like that I got told "This is a sport. You must push the envelope. Achieve new heights!" Well, heck, push the envelope off the table and lose it for all I care.

I love HUGE 3As. Heck, I don't even like 3 jumps in a row unless the person doing them doesn't come to a complete standstill to get that third jump in. :rofl:

soogar · Dec 16, 2005

Spirit said:
I agree, if technology remains current.

But I keep waiting for skaters to give hinged boot technology a try, en masse. That one piece of technology sounds like it could save thousands of dollars and whole careers. I'm really baffled as to why skaters haven't just jumped all over that. But then, my career is process improvement, so that's how I think, and I know others don't and that change is always slow due to human nature.

If the hinged boot can save bodies while still allowing quads, then the sky should be the limit.

Alissa is having troubles with the workmanship of that boot that she's using one old boot and a new one. Supposedly the hinge is twisting. Skaters are using the hinge, but a lot of skaters are waiting for the technology to be perfected. I've been reading online complaints of the knob in the back that tightens the boot coming off and that there aren't a lot of people who can work on the boots. Really, US skaters tend to have the problems b/c they tend to use the stiffest boots. The Japanese ladies (and the Russians if you look at their feet) use much softer boots that wear down easier.

SkateFan4Life · Dec 17, 2005

Figure skating IS a sport, but it is a performance sport, one which involves artistry, musical expression, and interpretation of the music. It's not just about jumps, guys! Enough is enough.

I fondly remember the years when champions reigned for years - Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Brian Boitano, Scott Hamilton, Katarina Witt, etc. These skaters thrilled us for years, and they managed to stay at the top of their game, virtually injury-free. They competed in countless Worlds and many in one than one Olympics, and they skated injury-free.

THE QUAD SHOULD BE BANNED !!!

heyang · Dec 17, 2005

On ABC World News, they said that the hinged boot should help in some areas, but there isn't enough information to determine if there will be different types of injuries, as a result.

Is Alyssa the 1st notable skater to where the hinged boot?

SkateFan4Life · Dec 17, 2005

Hinged boot or not, I say that the quad is an injury, accident, disaster waiting to happen. Simply put, the human body cannot stand the pounding from the pressure of landing this maneuver over a prolonged period of time.

Away with the quad!!

gkelly · Dec 17, 2005

SkateFan4Life said:
I fondly remember the years when champions reigned for years - Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Brian Boitano, Scott Hamilton, Katarina Witt, etc. These skaters thrilled us for years, and they managed to stay at the top of their game, virtually injury-free. They competed in countless Worlds and many in one than one Olympics, and they skated injury-free.

Fleming, Hamill, and Fratianne each competed at 5 Worlds, Witt at 9, Hamilton and Boitano 6 each.

Kwan 12, Liashenko 11, Slutskaya 10, Suguri 6.

Sandhu 6, C. Li 6, Goebel 6, Plyushenko 6 1/2, Weiss 7, Honda 9.

SkateFan4Life · Dec 17, 2005

gkelly said:
Fleming, Hamill, and Fratianne each competed at 5 Worlds, Witt at 9, Hamilton and Boitano 6 each.

Kwan 12, Liashenko 11, Slutskaya 10, Suguri 6.

Sandhu 6, C. Li 6, Goebel 6, Plyushenko 6 1/2, Weiss 7, Honda 9.

It's not necessary to mention the exact number of times each skater as competed at Worlds. That's not my point. Duh. How many times has Weiss and Goebel pulled OUT of competitions, due to injury? And has Sandhu, Li, and Honda really achieved their goals or skated up to their expectations? NO, and that's been due to injuries - at least partially.

Suguri has also been injured, as has Slutskaya.

curious · Dec 17, 2005

Yes,let's do away with the QUAD cause my fave can't land one to save his life :biggrin:

SkateFan4Life · Dec 18, 2005

I think of skaters such as Brian Joubert and Timothy Goebel, both of whom rely heavily on their ability to land quads to score high in skating competitions. Goebel has been injured so many times, and while Joubert seems to have remained healthy, he has had problems with his quads and has messed up a few of his major competitions, accordingly.

Without the quad, Johnny Weir probably doesn't stand a chance to medal at Torino, and he's one of the best all-around, artistic/athletic skaters around today. It does't seem fair to me.

Without the quad, Todd Eldredge didn't medal at the 1998 or the 2002 Olympics, despite the fact that he skated very well. Again, it doesn't seem fair to me.

Kwan101 · Dec 18, 2005

I don't mind them- if someone can do it and others can't, he should be rewarded.

Away with Quads!!

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