Wrapping Your Legs While Rotating

SkateFan4Life · Dec 18, 2005

Here's another "habit" shared by some skaters that I find very unattractive -- wrapping one leg while rotating for jumps instead of pulling both legs together.

Midori Ito typically wrapped one of her legs during many of her jumps, and while she usually landed the jumps successfully - she was a phenemonal jumper (!!) - that wrapped leg was very distracting, IMHO.

I just think this is an example of poor technique. I can't imagine why a coach would not correct this habit when the skater was just learning the jumps. I recall seeing a tape of Midori as a five-year-old, rotating single and double jumps and wrapping her leg in the process. Obviously, this was a longstanding habit, and perhaps it was one that was impossible to break.

soogar · Dec 18, 2005

Maybe Midori's bodytype only allowed her to wrap her legs. She had very muscular bowed legs. I've never seen Midori stand with her legs completely together. Sometime those legs just can't cross neatly at the ankles. Also Midori did that on every jump. Nakano by contrast wraps her leg on some of her jumps and has proper form on other jumps.

I don't think a wrapped leg is a big deal. As long as the jump is landed on one foot and takes off from the right edge, what does it matter what the skater looks like in the air?

SkateFan4Life · Dec 18, 2005

Well, IMHO, wrapping of the legs is unattractive. The jumps are still valid, of course, but the wrapping detracts from the beauty of the jump.

jesslily · Dec 18, 2005

The skating books and coaches all say that wrapped leg make jump rotation slower. But the reality is the skaters with wrapped leg habit are powerful jumpers. The new GPF champion Nakano wrapped, but she has very secured powerful jumps. The air position is kind of important. Most great skaters all have the flowy tightly crossed leg position in the air. Michelle was one of the best having the impressive air position.

antmanb · Dec 19, 2005

jesslily said:
The skating books and coaches all say that wrapped leg make jump rotation slower. But the reality is the skaters with wrapped leg habit are powerful jumpers. The new GPF champion Nakano wrapped, but she has very secured powerful jumps. The air position is kind of important. Most great skaters all have the flowy tightly crossed leg position in the air. Michelle was one of the best having the impressive air position.

Erm...Nakano isn't the new GPD champion!

Ant

Mathman · Dec 19, 2005

antmanb said:
Erm...Nakano isn't the new GPF champion!

But she did so well I bet she feels like she is!

icenut84 · Dec 20, 2005

SkateFan4Life said:
Midori Ito typically wrapped one of her legs during many of her jumps, and while she usually landed the jumps successfully - she was a phenemonal jumper (!!) - that wrapped leg was very distracting, IMHO.

AFAIK, Midori didn't wrap her legs on her jumps. She had a relatively high free leg, but wrapping involves (IIRC) crossing at the knees, which makes the jump very unattractive and does no good for the balance of the jump, and is considered bad technique. A picture of someone with a bad leg wrap will show their legs crossed over at the knees and the ankles quite far apart as a result. Midori's free leg was higher than usual, but it was her ankle that crossed, her knees were not, therefore she didn't "wrap" her legs, and there was nothing wrong with her technique, it was just a little unusual. Perhaps hers was one that would usually prevent the jump rotating as fast (because the body is less streamlined) but the power in her jumps meant that that didn't matter. Midori is known as a phenomenal jumper (and the best female jumper ever) for a good reason.

Pictures as examples:

This is the usual position - legs together, crossed at the ankles
http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamSkatingImages/98worldsska.jpg

This is the position you have if your jump is "wrapped" - notice the crossed knees and far-apart ankles. Not good technique.
http://www.arkansasskatium.com/figure/jump.jpg

I couldn't find a picture of Midori mid-jump, but this is closer to what she did. Notice the *ankle* crossed over, the same as in the normal technique, but simply crossed over at a higher point on the other leg than in the normal technique.
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/anorexianervosa/dblloop.jpg

See the difference? Midori did not "leg-wrap". I doubt somebody with a bad leg wrap would have the jumping prowess that she had.

SkateFan4Life · Dec 22, 2005

Thanks for the information, but I disagree with you. I've seen Midori skate, and she definitely did wrap her leg while rotating.

Nevertheless, Midori was a fantastic figure skater and a superb jumper. :clap:

JonnyCoop · Dec 22, 2005

I actually don't recall Midori wrapping her leg much, either, and that is something that I usually notice right off the bat BECAUSE IT DRIVES ME CRAZY. It is bad technique and should not be seen at all on the World level. That being said, one of my favorites of the last several seasons was actually Silvia Fontana, who had a VERY OBVIOUS wrapped leg, but as long as she was "on the ground and not in the air", as I refer to it, she was lovely to watch.

jesslily · Dec 23, 2005

I guess I mixed up NHK with GPF. Nakano won the NHK. But the reality is most skaters in lower levels with wrapped leg jumps won't advance quick unless the problem is fixed, while Nakano could get through all the way to the top with obvious wrapping leg.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 23, 2005

She is executing jumps according to their definition. So she should get full credit for the technical part of the score. However, esthetically, some people may not find it in the best of taste. Some judges too, may find it less than grand in the GOEs. And it may take away from the PCS scores too, but it shouldn't imo.

Likewise with the layback. The 'attitude' layback is apparently what most fans want to see. However, a layback like that of Liashenko is technically correct by definition.

Joe

SkateFan4Life · Dec 26, 2005

JonnyCoop said:
I actually don't recall Midori wrapping her leg much, either, and that is something that I usually notice right off the bat BECAUSE IT DRIVES ME CRAZY. It is bad technique and should not be seen at all on the World level. That being said, one of my favorites of the last several seasons was actually Silvia Fontana, who had a VERY OBVIOUS wrapped leg, but as long as she was "on the ground and not in the air", as I refer to it, she was lovely to watch.

ITA, JonnyCoop. Silvia Fontana definitely wraps her leg in her jumps. She's back in training, from what I've read, and she hope to qualify for the Italian Olympic figure skating team.

CDMM1991 · Dec 26, 2005

Does the Italian team have three spots for the Olympics?

SkateFan4Life · Dec 26, 2005

CDMM1991 said:
Does the Italian team have three spots for the Olympics?

I think they have only one spot.

JonnyCoop · Dec 26, 2005

Actually, with Kostner's bronze, it seems to me they would have 2. I just recently found out about Fontana coming back, having just now gotten around to seeing the Golden Spin of Zagreb results, where Silvia finished 3rd.

Doggygirl · Dec 26, 2005

Thanks Johnny coop. The season is kicking into VERY high gear, and I really appreciate all of this info. Thanks!!!

DG

NJSk8Fan · Dec 27, 2005

I must be odd man out, I think the leg up and wrapped looks neat. I know it's not supposed to be correct form and all, but I think it just gives a different look and for some reason it's pleasing to my eye.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 27, 2005

It would look good in a group number of male skaters to the Polivestian dancers.

Joe

JonnyCoop · Dec 27, 2005

Interesting. I'm going to have to drag out my Polevetsian Dances CD tonight and see if I agree.... :biggrin:

Skater_Kid · Dec 27, 2005

thats the way its suposed to be

a skater is supposed to cross one foot in front of the other because if you didnt then it would be almost impossible to land a jump on one foot!! :yes:

Wrapping Your Legs While Rotating

SkateFan4Life

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soogar

SkateFan4Life

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antmanb

Mathman

icenut84

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SkateFan4Life

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CDMM1991

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