Should there be an Exception for Mao?

swannanoa54 · Dec 20, 2005

Ok, I just do not GET this at all. Since when did Mao become the "bee's knees" of the figure skating world? Sure, I like her immensely. I think she can grow into her skating more given another 4 years. Or maybe not. Who knows? But good grief, she isn't the GREATEST skater out there. She won the GPF and that suddenly made her THE skater to beat Irina? The ONLY skater? Come on. Rules are rules and whether you agree with the age limit or not, it's there. And it should stay there this close to the Olympics.

And I won't put an asterisk next to the OGM winner's name unless I think, IMO, that skater stunk and everyone else was much better (but that's a different can of worms I suppose) just because Mao wasn't allowed to compete this time around. Good grief, you would think she had won everything in sight. Irina had a bad SP. She was due. She was jet lagged. Mao won the GPF. Good for Mao. But that, IMO, doesn't make her the one to beat Irina at the Olympics. Sorry, skating at the GPF has GOT to be a far cry from skating at Worlds and/or the Olympics. Bigger stage, more people at those two venues.

rain · Dec 21, 2005

realistic51 said:
Ok, I just do not GET this at all. Since when did Mao become the "bee's knees" of the figure skating world? Sure, I like her immensely. I think she can grow into her skating more given another 4 years. Or maybe not. Who knows? But good grief, she isn't the GREATEST skater out there. She won the GPF and that suddenly made her THE skater to beat Irina? The ONLY skater? Come on. Rules are rules and whether you agree with the age limit or not, it's there. And it should stay there this close to the Olympics.

And I won't put an asterisk next to the OGM winner's name unless I think, IMO, that skater stunk and everyone else was much better (but that's a different can of worms I suppose) just because Mao wasn't allowed to compete this time around. Good grief, you would think she had won everything in sight. Irina had a bad SP. She was due. She was jet lagged. Mao won the GPF. Good for Mao. But that, IMO, doesn't make her the one to beat Irina at the Olympics. Sorry, skating at the GPF has GOT to be a far cry from skating at Worlds and/or the Olympics. Bigger stage, more people at those two venues.

I totally agree with this. I like Mao fine and think she has great potential. But we aren't talking about the greatest skater of all time here. She hasn't even been in senior competition for a full season. It's not like she's been dominating the sport for three years and all of a sudden can't compete at the Olympics.

hockeyfan228 · Dec 21, 2005

Mathman said:
If Mao wins the Japanese National Championship, the Japanese Federation can complain that the arbitrary and unjustified ISU rules prevented them from sending their national champion to represent them in the Olympics.

They can complain all they want, but when was the last time anyone's complaints about any arbitrary and unjustified ISU rules resulted in anything but a pissy look on Cinquanta's face?

R.D. · Dec 21, 2005

hockeyfan228 said:
They can complain all they want, but when was the last time anyone's complaints about any arbitrary and unjustified ISU rules resulted in anything but a pissy look on Cinquanta's face?

I thought the guy admitted that he'd (personally) like to see Asada at the games...Ugh.

Shanti · Dec 21, 2005

Popping my head in:

My 2 cents:

1. If there are rules (good, bad, silly, controversial - whatever) - they should not be changed in the middle of the season. It's opening the road to hell. I completely agree with the poster who compared Mao's case to awarding the 2nd sets of OGM at SLC - it's encouraging to other dissatisfied to appeal based on the precedent. Once done, it can't be stopped.

2. I think all this talks about "astericks next to OGM winner" is a nonsense.
IF S/Z don't compete at the Olys will the OGM winners in pairs be with astericks (*won without S/Z competing*)?

3. I wonder would all these talks have occured had Mao lost to Irina in GPF? Yes, she won, but it's not guaranteeing she will win Olys if allowed to participate.
And why hasn't the Japanese Fed bothered to try to change the age rule in summer? Were they just unsure of how competitive Mao is?

4. I wonder why B/A (and S/S) don't ask to change the regulation re. citizenship requirement claining they're main contenders? If the rule gets changed for Mao, maybe it would make sense for them to try their luck as well ...

I know, I'm slightly exaggerating, but anyway ...

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 21, 2005

Remember this is not an International Olympic Committee (OIC) rule. It is an ISU rule.

I hope all you posters who believe one should neverallow a rule to be broken will continue to believe this on other matters of the ISU where the rule may or may not be justified. If it affects an Olympics, that the ISU rules should be upheld, not the country's nominee and not the OIC.

Joe.

Mathman · Dec 21, 2005

realistic51 said:
Ok, I just do not GET this at all. Since when did Mao become the "bee's knees" of the figure skating world? Sure, I like her immensely. I think she can grow into her skating more given another 4 years. Or maybe not. Who knows? But good grief, she isn't the GREATEST skater out there. She won the GPF and that suddenly made her THE skater to beat Irina? The ONLY skater?

Well, um, yes, she is the only skater who has beaten Irina in the last two years.

MM

Shanti · Dec 21, 2005

Joesitz said:
Remember this is not an International Olympic Committee (OIC) rule. It is an ISU rule.

Joe.

I didn't know that.

Then, does OIC has any age rules? Or none at all? Or it's not their business?

Mathman · Dec 21, 2005

I think what the IOC does is sanction international governance organizations for each sport separately (like the ISU for figure skating and speed skating), then it is up to these organizations to set eligibility requirements for their sport.

MM

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 21, 2005

Mathman said:
I think what the IOC does is sanction international governance organizations for each sport separately (like the ISU for figure skating and speed skating), then it is up to these organizations to set eligibility requirements for their sport.

MM

But, you are not sure?

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 21, 2005

ISU Rules

Is everyone ok that the ISU Rules should never be excepted. They are set in stone.

Joe

Mathman · Dec 21, 2005

I think what most people are in agreement about is not that rules can't be changed, but that they must apply equitably to all. You can't have one set of rules for Mao Asada and a different set of rules for everyone else.

R.D. · Dec 21, 2005

Mathman said:
I think what most people are in agreement about is not that rules can't be changed, but that they must apply equitably to all. You can't have one set of rules for Mao Asada and a different set of rules for everyone else.

Yes!

If they wanted to change this rule, they should have done it earlier. Now they can't try to backpedal and say that they want this NOW that Mao is "competitive".

swannanoa54 · Dec 21, 2005

Mathman said:
Well, um, yes, she is the only skater who has beaten Irina in the last two years.

MM

And, MM, your point is what? That, oooooo, Mao beat Irina...ooooo, she should skate at the Olys because she won the GPF......ooooo, that way big bad Irina won't win? :rofl:

Give me a break.

And joesitz, rules are rules no matter what. However there are times when rules SHOULD be broken and/or changed. And I'll have to get back to you on those times because I just can't think of any. :rofl:

chuckm · Dec 21, 2005

The rules aren't set in stone. They CAN be changed, but that requires a proposal to be brought before the ISU Congress and voted on by the member federations.

One has to wonder why the Japanese Federation didn't try that route long before this season. I suspect they may have lobbied the idea and didn't find much interest, since few countries have really young, exceptionally gifted skaters. And the other federations are well aware of Mao. I think the JSF didn't try to push through a rule change because they knew it would fail, so they tried to get Mao in by entering her in the GP.

Incidentally, isn't it odd that Mao was entered in events that initially included Irina, Sasha, Michelle and Arakawa? How the heck did the JSN engineer that? Usually a new GP skater gets picked for the host and one other assignment. But Mao went straight to the plum events where she could challenge three of the top four skaters in the world. Hmmm.

The JSN counted on Mao scoring high at and winning some of these events, and then unleashed a PR and media blitz to stir up the Japanese fans, interspersed with international politicking, threats to take the matter up with the IOC, and wacky proposals to let Japan send FOUR ladies to Torino.

But the IOC has deferred to the ISU, and the ISU rules are valid and cannot be changed mid-season. As far as I can see, all the pronouncements by the Japanese Prime Minister and Emperor Akihito aren't going to change a thing.

curious · Dec 21, 2005

Mathman said:
Well, um, yes, she is the only skater who has beaten Irina in the last two years.

MM

People forget that a CLEAN Irina beat a CLEAN Mao in China so they are tied :biggrin:

Some people are just too desperate to see anyone beat Irina in Turino cause their faves can't,that's what the sudden love for Mao is really all about lol! Too bad they are going to be dissapointed :laugh:

Frau Muller · Dec 21, 2005

It doesn't even matter now whether or not Mao will be allowed to skate at Olys. The fact is that enough stink & noise has been made about this very subject that it is inevitable that the word 'Mao' will be heard every 5 minutes during the Olys coverage & all over the media. :rock:

MY, OH MA-O!

swannanoa54 · Dec 21, 2005

Frau Muller said:
It doesn't even matter now whether or not Mao will be allowed to skate at Olys. The fact is that enough stink & noise has been made about this very subject that it is inevitable that the word 'Mao' will be heard every 5 minutes during the Olys coverage & all over the media. MY, OH MA-O!

As opposed to those who are participating? I don't like the idea, but I do believe you just might be right, FrauMuller. Why make Mao a household name when she isn't even participating? That could very well happen. I can just see it now:

"Premiere Japanese figure skater, Mao Asada, the ONLY skater to beat Irina Slutskaya in two years, wasn't given a chance to compete in these Olympics because of an age rule. Despite the Japanese federation's attempts, rules could not be change to allow the little phenom to participate and give us the contest that SHOULD be happening as opposed to a noncontested gold medal win which will surely happen for Irina this year."

Yep, that's about what it will sound like. It will make it seem as if all the other skaters in the world don't matter. Only Mao matters because Mao beat Irina at the GPF. Whatever. :rofl:

millie · Dec 21, 2005

This is what I don't understand! A skater that is injured can get a bid to go to the Olympics even if they don't skate all year and by-pass everthing and everyone else. Then there is another skater that has proved herself and can do it, is on top of her game and can't go because of her age. Rules were changed before and I think they can be changed now. If Mao is the best in her country, then I think that the best should go to the Olympics.

Frau Muller · Dec 21, 2005

Yup, it's a 'Christine Brennan Moment' waiting to happen, realistic51!

Should there be an Exception for Mao?

swannanoa54

rain

hockeyfan228

R.D.

Shanti

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Shanti

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

R.D.

swannanoa54

chuckm

curious

Frau Muller

swannanoa54

millie

Frau Muller

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