Better quality jumper-Tara or Irina?

slutskayafan21 · Apr 9, 2006

How on earth Tara gets 30% of yes votes I will never know, but to her credit even though her jumps were of poor quality, she was extremely consistent in doing 7-triple performances with a very consistent triple loop-triple loop so perhaps those that voted for her were recognizing her ability to extremly hard jumps so consistently, even though with poor technique.

antmanb · Apr 12, 2006

Joesitz said:
What a dumb comparison. Irina gets off the ice about 6 inches while Tara got off the ice about 1/4inch.

6 Inches??? You have to be kidding - Irina jumps much higer than 6 inches off the ground!!!

Ant

antmanb · Apr 12, 2006

soogar said:
Well I like the height on Irina's jumps so I voted for her. Though Tara had better technique on her edge jumps (save for the axel) and Tara worked on her lutz where it was looking very good by the 98 Olympics. I also liked Tara's jump run out. I think that Tara's jumps would have imprived a lot if she hadn't gotten injured. I remember Tara competing in a pro competition a year after her win and her jumps were much higher as her physique matured.

While her jumps may have gotten bigger, in her pro career the flutz became worse than before the fixes mades for teh 97/98 season. I think her technique got worse in the pro years but she was able to jump higher because she had matured physically.

Ant

antmanb · Apr 12, 2006

ladysarahchatto said:
Irina's clearly are more powerful. Both have something wanting in technique. Irina telegraphs her jumps by holding her arms kind of bent, and then she seems to brake the jump with no real flow. Tara was a roller skater and I think that was the reason for her particular style of jumps. And she was tiny thing. It's hard for the smaller girls with slight builds to get that kind of height (Irina's) on jumps. And of course Tara was a Flutzer. Irina is not.

But Irina is a 'lipper on her flip.

Ant

antmanb · Apr 12, 2006

anything_for_skating said:
Irina is the best jumper!
And BTW, when Tara did her famous 3-3 loop combo, it was actually 3-2.5, ao we can say ahe never did 3-3

Look again at the 3lp/3lp in Nagano - the jump was clearly clean - she goes into the first jump heading towards the barrier and comes out of the second jump heading away from the barrier - any inherent "cheat" on the loop is over come by rotating the full amount and heading back out 180 degrees from teh way she went in.

I agree a lot of the time that combination was short but at the Olympics is was clean.

Ant

Vash01 · Apr 13, 2006

Irina by a thousand miles! She has great height, power in her jumps. Tara's baby jumps don't come close.

Vash

slutskayafan21 · Apr 16, 2006

Vash, I have a question for you, two actually.

First of all did you used to post on CNNSI figure skating message boards? I was davidr21 there.

Secondly do you think Irina or Tonya Harding should be rated higher all time as a jumper. I remember arguing with some people on this saying that Irina should be since she regularly lands 5-7 triples, along with doing them with such exceptional quality; and while Tonya might have the even better quality jumps, she turned in a 2-3 triple performance 60% of the time or more. I just did not think it was fair to rate such a horrably inconsistent competitive jumper, a top 2 jumper all time which is what the people I was arguing with believed. She certainly had the potential to be a top 2 jumper all time, but the fact she chose to get out of shape, chose not to show her true potential as a jumper often in competition, was a poor competitor who fell on many of her jumps despite her natural jumping talent, etc....should not rate her as a top 2 jumper all time just because of her jumping talent.

Vash01 · Apr 16, 2006

slutskayafan21 said:
Vash, I have a question for you, two actually.

First of all did you used to post on CNNSI figure skating message boards? I was davidr21 there.

Secondly do you think Irina or Tonya Harding should be rated higher all time as a jumper. I remember arguing with some people on this saying that Irina should be since she regularly lands 5-7 triples, along with doing them with such exceptional quality; and while Tonya might have the even better quality jumps, she turned in a 2-3 triple performance 60% of the time or more. I just did not think it was fair to rate such a horrably inconsistent competitive jumper, a top 2 jumper all time which is what the people I was arguing with believed. She certainly had the potential to be a top 2 jumper all time, but the fact she chose to get out of shape, chose not to show her true potential as a jumper often in competition, was a poor competitor who fell on many of her jumps despite her natural jumping talent, etc....should not rate her as a top 2 jumper all time just because of her jumping talent.

No, I never posted on CNNSI.

Between Irina and Tonya, it is hard for me to be objective- partly because I feel Irina has more than just jumps. I love her overall skating. Partly because I have not watched Tonya's skating in many years, so it is hard to remember. She was a great athlete and for a couple of years her jumps were great. She was not a very consistent jumper, as you pointed out. In 1991 she won the US nationals, beating Kristi Yamaguchi, but same year at worlds she completed just 2 or 3 jumps (I will have to watch the tape to come up with an exact number). In 1991 SA she skated very well, but by the time USN rolled around, she was not that great. She did win the world silver, but Irina has won two world championships. Irina has been more consistent with her jumps over many years. It is extremely rare to see Irina do less than 5 triples in an LP. I like the power and height of her jumps. Sometimes she telegraphs the triple flip. I will have to watch Tonya's again to be able to compare, but I don't recall her telegraphing the flip. Tonya did high quality jumps but I will have to view them sbs with Irina's to be able to compare.

Another thing (besides consistency) that would push Irina over Tonya is that she did more difficult jump combinations (3Z-3R, 3S-3R-2t, 3S-2t-2R, 3f-3t, 3t-3t and 3Z-2R). Tonya's combinations were (IIRC) 3Z-2t, 3t-3t and 3A-2t (she landed it once, I think- at 91 SA?). After 92 Tonya did not skate the way her incredible athletic ability would have allowed her to.

So my final answer is- Irina is a better jumper than Tonya. If Tonya had realized her potential, may be she could have been the #2 jumper.

(IMO the best jumper ever in the ladies event is still Midori Ito)

Sorry, I got OT.

Vash

Zuranthium · Apr 17, 2006

Irina's jumps are better quality but her transitions are NOT. She takes too long to enter jumps.

Lipinski was way more consistent too.

Stars on Ice · Apr 17, 2006

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!

Irina is like the ....... MASTER!
No I made a graphic of her!

Wolfgang · Apr 18, 2006

Well, as much as I like Tara (she sure is pretty....

), I'll have to go with Irina, her jumps look much cleaner, Tara's are kinda sloppy.

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 18, 2006

Zuranthium said:
Irina's jumps are better quality but her transitions are NOT. She takes too long to enter jumps.

Lipinski was way more consistent too.

Please Lipinski was unable to edge on ice. It was different on rollers which she brought to the ice rink. Look at that 'winning' Oly. Her foot work was two footed and consisted of zig zaging both skates together down the ice. can you see this in CoP?

I really think Tara could have been a very special skater if she wasn't in such a rush, and she would have been healthier, imo.

Joe

#1Kerryfan · Apr 28, 2006

Irina

Piel · Apr 28, 2006

This is the kind of questions that keeps me away from fan sites. They are designed so that the asker's favorite is the obvious answer. What's next, who has the best spiral Sasha or Amber Corwin or who had the best program skated to Lyra in 1998?

R.D. · Apr 29, 2006

yeah, I detest that too.

slutskayafan21 · Apr 29, 2006

Piel said:
This is the kind of questions that keeps me away from fan sites. They are designed so that the asker's favorite is the obvious answer. What's next, who has the best spiral Sasha or Amber Corwin or who had the best program skated to Lyra in 1998?

It is so obvious why have 38 out of 136 people voted for Tara. Obviously not that obvious to some people.

slutskayafan21 · Apr 29, 2006

Piel said:
What's next, who has the best spiral Sasha or Amber Corwin or

That is a silly comparision. Tara has 28% of votes as the better jumper, do you really think Amber would get 28% of the votes on who has the better spiral, between her and Sasha? Maybe 2%.

I find Tara's jumps overrated, and personaly voted for Irina hands down. Still she won an Olympics and Worlds mainly based on her "jumps", she also was very consistent landing 7 triple with triple loop-triple loop, and another triple
sequence of some sort performances. So the poll is hardly an irrelevant oh-so
-obvious poll to everybody.

Piel · Apr 29, 2006

slutskayafan21 said:
I find Tara's jumps overrated, and personaly voted for Irina hands down.

Just curious how many others might think Tara's tiny, cheated, flawed jumps are superior to Irina's quality-wise?

Your own words indicate that you think Irina is the far
superior jumper to Tara. It's like you set up the poll for others to validate your high opinion of Irina. IMO that is as silly as comparing Amber and Sasha's spirals. Why not ask for camparisons to someone like Harding, Ito, Onda.....?

slutskayafan21 · Apr 29, 2006

Piel said:
Your own words indicate that you think Irina is the far
superior jumper to Tara. It's like you set up the poll for others to validate your high opinion of Irina. IMO that is as silly as comparing Amber and Sasha's spirals. Why not ask for camparisons to someone like Harding, Ito, Onda.....?

I do strongly feel Tara is an inferior jumper to Irina, however I also had arguments on another forum with SEVERAL people who whole-heartedly disagreed with me on that. Thus I did not genuinely know how the voting would go when I started this poll, and was curious to how many really believe Tara based on consistency doing such high jump difficulty was better as a jumper than Irina. My own early words reflect my own opinion.

slutskayafan21 · Apr 29, 2006

Piel said:
Why not ask for camparisons to someone like Harding, Ito, Onda.....?

For the record I just started a poll that does that. :chorus:

Better quality jumper-Tara or Irina?

Better quality jumps?

Irina Slutskaya

Tara Lipinski

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

antmanb

antmanb

antmanb

antmanb

Vash01

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

Vash01

Zuranthium

Match Penalty

Stars on Ice

Wolfgang

Joesitz (RIP)

#1Kerryfan

Piel

On Edge

R.D.

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

Piel

On Edge

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

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